Questions for my fellow Potomac boaters.

[WDCboater]

We just found out yesterday about a MAJOR policy change at James Creek Marina in DC. I'll explain the changes and I wanted to get everyone's feedback.

-Through a Facebook post the marina posted that effective immediately they will no longer allow monthly billing. Slips must be paid for the season in advance or annual slip holders must pay 50% now and 50% in March.

So a few things:
1- We've been a James Creek for 6 years. Many people around us have been there for more than a decade. The policy has always allowed monthly billing. For me this isn't a big deal and if they want the slip fees in one or two lump sums we can do that. I know for others this will be a problem.
2- What's more shocking is that they pretty much told everyone if you have a seasonal slip you risk losing your slip if you don't sign a new annual agreement!
(This comes on the heels of the announcement that Buzzard Point marina is closing Dec 31 and displacing 60 boats)

We've always alternated between annual and seasonal because every other winter we pull the boat out for maintenance. This winter we're coming out. The marina has ALWAYS held our slip at no cost during the winter as long as we signed a new agreement for the next season. We are not alone. I'd say half of the marina does this.

For a little history:
Back in January the long time marina manager left and a new person came in. James Creek is owned by the National Park Service, so NPS controls the fees, but the marina is run by a contractor: Guest Services.

The change in leadership has not been great. We didn't have dock water until MAY because of damage from last winter. The staff was painfully slow to fix the problem. Communication is terrible. This major policy change was posted on FACEBOOK! In the past the marina manager sent letters out every fall to update slip holders on policy changes and to see who wanted to come back. I can hardly get the current marina manager to return an email.

Thoughts?

 

[fwebster]

I don't have much that is comparable in my situation in Florida.......privately owned vs NPS owned, contracted mgt vs. paid employees whose job it is to run a quality operation and whose pay is determined by profitability, etc. The one area that may be comparable is annual vs monthly billing and the fact that we are in a high demand situation much like you. It is common place to offer incentives to get slip leaseholders to do annual contracts. Our marina gives you a free month or 12 month's storage for the cost of 11 month's rent.

Also, the new contract thing is probably about getting everybody on the same contract terms more than anything else. Just read it carefully and watch for the newest marina hot buttons like a blanket hold harmless for the marina and its employees, terminology allowing the marina to move, force you to move, or even sink your boat in its slip to avoid damage to docks, piers, pilings etc. in a storm, requiring you to add the NPS and the contract management co. to your insurance policy as an also insured (sorry, I am not insuring the property of t he Federal Gov.)..........just be sure you read what the new manager wants you to sign.

As far as the quality of and responsiveness of the new mgt. goes, I have found that getting in front of the dock master and making him look you in the eye goes a long way in solving problems. Asking for credit for stuff that doesn't work seems to ring a bell where I am. How can you wash a boat with no water?.........our marina dug a well to keep from having to buy city water. It smelled like rotten eggs and left brown rust-like stains on the dock and boats. When I asked for a 50% credit on my next bill because I couldn't use the facilities I contracted for, the well was capped and the city water turned back on. I think you just have to make someone in mgt. uncomfortable enough in defending their inaction that the ball starts rolling.

Good luck with it............

 

[WDCboater]

I don't have much that is comparable in my situation in Florida.......privately owned vs NPS owned, contracted mgt vs. paid employees whose job it is to run a quality operation and whose pay is determined by profitability, etc. The one area that may be comparable is annual vs monthly billing and the fact that we are in a high demand situation much like you. It is common place to offer incentives to get slip leaseholders to do annual contracts. Our marina gives you a free month or 12 month's storage for the cost of 11 month's rent.

Also, the new contract thing is probably about getting everybody on the same contract terms more than anything else. Just read it carefully and watch for the newest marina hot buttons like a blanket hold harmless for the marina and its employees, terminology allowing the marina to move, force you to move, or even sink your boat in its slip to avoid damage to docks, piers, pilings etc. in a storm, requiring you to add the NPS and the contract management co. to your insurance policy as an also insured (sorry, I am not insuring the property of t he Federal Gov.)..........just be sure you read what the new manager wants you to sign.

As far as the quality of and responsiveness of the new mgt. goes, I have found that getting in front of the dock master and making him look you in the eye goes a long way in solving problems. Asking for credit for stuff that doesn't work seems to ring a bell where I am. How can you wash a boat with no water?.........our marina dug a well to keep from having to buy city water. It smelled like rotten eggs and left brown rust-like stains on the dock and boats. When I asked for a 50% credit on my next bill because I couldn't use the facilities I contracted for, the well was capped and the city water turned back on. I think you just have to make someone in mgt. uncomfortable enough in defending their inaction that the ball starts rolling.

Good luck with it............

Thanks Frank.

There is something different about a contractor who runs a facility versus dealing with the people who own the place. Unfortunately it's a large contractor they pretty much do all of this type of work for NPS.

The water issued kept boats from being de-winterized! Marina management offered no refunds. Trust me I asked in person.

In terms of insurance this is already required. Policy's must list the marina as "additional insured". Now, this doesn't technically mean you are insuring the marina. And for business owners this is a common practice. No contractor, detailed, mechanic at most marinas can do any work without having a COI (Certificate of Insurance) listing the marina owner as additional insured. This really only comes into play if your negligence causes an issue, the marina wants you to pay.

 

[dpmulvey]

Agee with Frank.

Here is a link their current 2008 agreement.

http://www.jamescreek.com/documents/jcm_license_agreement.pdf


BRUTAL!!

 

[Mikemapva]

Ryan,

I feel for you, and I have been wondering about the DC marina situation due to all of the work on the "Wharf". I hear that Gangplank may be affected when they're done with the construction, even though they say right now that they won't be.

I've been in 2 marinas on the Occoquan, and both have required annual slip fees. The first one, Captain John S. Beach, is a family run marina, and are pretty easy to work with. I'm now at Fairfax Yacht Club which is a little different. It is a condo ownership marina, so there is individual ownership of each of the slips. I then rent from one of the owners. Even though I rent through an individual owner, there is a common slip holder agreement used by all. We have always been required (at both marinas) to list the marina as an additional insured. Three years ago, I was a 2 boat owner for awhile and asked Captain John S. Beach and all of the owners who were renting slips at Fairfax whether I could rent a slip on a month to month basis. (didn't want to pay for a year if my boat sold). None of them would do it. So, I ended up at EZ Cruz on Neabsco Creek until the boat sold as they were willing to do a month to month.

Mike

 

[WDCboater]

Ryan,

I feel for you, and I have been wondering about the DC marina situation due to all of the work on the "Wharf". I hear that Gangplank may be affected when they're done with the construction, even though they say right now that they won't be.

I've been in 2 marinas on the Occoquan, and both have required annual slip fees. The first one, Captain John S. Beach, is a family run marina, and are pretty easy to work with. I'm now at Fairfax Yacht Club which is a little different. It is a condo ownership marina, so there is individual ownership of each of the slips. I then rent from one of the owners. Even though I rent through an individual owner, there is a common slip holder agreement used by all. We have always been required (at both marinas) to list the marina as an additional insured. Three years ago, I was a 2 boat owner for awhile and asked Captain John S. Beach and all of the owners who were renting slips at Fairfax whether I could rent a slip on a month to month basis. (didn't want to pay for a year if my boat sold). None of them would do it. So, I ended up at EZ Cruz on Neabsco Creek until the boat sold as they were willing to do a month to month.

Mike

Mike

Good insight. I actually don't have a problem with the insurance. This is kinda standard practice.

My my issue is with incompetent marina management. They have scrubbed Facebook, which is where they initially announced these changes, after slip holders started posting nasty responses.

Now, they've updated the website and said effective Oct 1 they are billing everyone pro-rated fees for Oct 1-March. We have a signed contract in place that expires Oct 31. Our plan is to pull out at PWM for the winter so we don't need our slip.

In the past James Creek has always let us hold our slip and come back in the spring. Now it sounds like that may not be the case. We want an annual contract starting in the spring.

The other annoying thing is they posted this and it says if you have questions call the marina manager. She is conveniently not working today.

The other big issue is the lack of slips in DC. Buzzard Point closes Dec 31 and that displaces 60 boats. Columbia Island has a (4) year wait list!

 

[Mikemapva]

Ryan,

That does sound like pretty crappy customer service. With the closing of Buzzard's Point, it sounds like there is a chance of you being out of a slip in the spring if a bunch of them move over. I have heard that about Columbia Island, but I've also heard about people assuming other's slip and getting ahead of the waiting list.

Hope it works out for you!

Mike

 

[blaster]

Yes, its unfortunate considering the limited options on the upper tidal Potomac. I hope you find a solution that works for you.

 

[WDCboater]

Update.

I spoke with the marina manager this morning. She had very little input in the change. The changes are being driven by her managers. (Guest Services, the contractor responsible for the marina)

1- Existing contracts will be honored until their expiration
2- Annual slip agreements begin January 1 and expire Dec 31. I asked why these dates and was told this is what her company wants. I pointed out that other marinas in the area, including Columbia Island, which Guest Services run, does contracts on April 1 - March 31. This makes more sense and starts/ends contracts at the beginning of each season. She gave me the number to her superior and told me to call and voice my complain.
3- James Creek is only about 75% full, but all of their slips for boats over 30' are full. Columbia Island is full, Alexandria's City Dock has a wait list, and even National Harbor is full. I have no idea where anyone is going to go if they have a boat over 30'. Marina manager told me they are already getting calls from boaters at Buzzard Point.
4- Slips will no longer be held during the off season unless you sign a new annual agreement and pay 50% of the total slip fees. I have no issue with this, but who wants their slip agreement to start in the middle of the winter! If we stay and want to move in a year we'd be stuck paying transient fees until the spring when we could de-winterize and move the boat!

We're still debating exactly what we're going to do. We can sign a new agreement, starting Jan 1 and keep our current slip. (Slip fees are not changing) Or we can move the boat.

The biggest issue with moving is there are no slips to be had in DC for boats 30'+

 

[dpmulvey]

Occaquan?

 

[WDCboater]

Occaquan?

I've thought of this as a backup. I can easily move to PWM.

I live in Alexandria, about 10 minutes from my current marina, so convenience is a big factor. That's the main reason why we're docked in DC.

 

[Mikemapva]

I've thought of this as a backup. I can easily move to PWM.

I live in Alexandria, about 10 minutes from my current marina, so convenience is a big factor. That's the main reason why we're docked in DC.

Ryan,

If you consider moving to the Occoquan, keep my marina in mind. I love the folks at PWM, but it is a long ride in the no wake zone every time you want to head out into the river. I'm happy to show you around our facility. As I mentioned, the price varies as each slip is individually owned so it's up to the owner to determine the lease rate, but I believe it would be less expensive than PWM. At least it was, the last time I checked.

Mike

 

[WDCboater]

Ryan,

If you consider moving to the Occoquan, keep my marina in mind. I love the folks at PWM, but it is a long ride in the no wake zone every time you want to head out into the river. I'm happy to show you around our facility. As I mentioned, the price varies as each slip is individually owned so it's up to the owner to determine the lease rate, but I believe it would be less expensive than PWM. At least it was, the last time I checked.

Mike

Thanks Mike. If it looks like we're going to move I'll take you up on that.

 

[Mikemapva]

Thanks Mike. If it looks like we're going to move I'll take you up on that.

Sounds good. Good luck!

 

[PlayDate]

Ryan,

I'm surprised it has taken James Creek this long to catch up. I was at Gangplank for 12 years and now I've been at National Harbor for the last three. Coastal Properties runs GP, NH and Fort Washington for their respective owners. The slip agreement they use is onerous but the Marina owners go along with it and the boaters don't have a lot of choice given the supply for over 40+ slips. The simple answer is that they are controlling their insurance costs by passing along all the risk to the slipholder. You have the right to complain but there is a waiting list for all the Marinas north of the Woodrow Wilson Bridge .....so complaining gets you nowhere. I even called Boat US who insures my boat and talked to them about the issue. They claim that this move to transfer all the risk to the boater and require that the marina and its owners are "named" on the policy is a standard business practice for our marinas.

The monthly billing was an option at GP but I remember it being more expensive than two or one payment. At NH it is one payment from April to March. Since most of the slips at NH are 50'......you get to pay for an extra ten feet if you own a 40' boat.


That said, I have never had a problem with Coastal Management. They do an excellent job of running the Marinas they are contracted for. They are boaters themselves and some live on their boats so the lack of water would be the last thing that would occur. I don't know much about Guest Services except they run Columbia Island and James Creek for the National Park Service. Sometimes the Marina owners are the bigger problem when it comes to getting routine maintenance approved.

John

 

[WDCboater]

Ryan,

I'm surprised it has taken James Creek this long to catch up. I was at Gangplank for 12 years and now I've been at National Harbor for the last three. Coastal Properties runs GP, NH and Fort Washington for their respective owners. The slip agreement they use is onerous but the Marina owners go along with it and the boaters don't have a lot of choice given the supply for over 40+ slips. The simple answer is that they are controlling their insurance costs by passing along all the risk to the slipholder. You have the right to complain but there is a waiting list for all the Marinas north of the Woodrow Wilson Bridge .....so complaining gets you nowhere. I even called Boat US who insures my boat and talked to them about the issue. They claim that this move to transfer all the risk to the boater and require that the marina and its owners are "named" on the policy is a standard business practice for our marinas.

The monthly billing was an option at GP but I remember it being more expensive than two or one payment. At NH it is one payment from April to March. Since most of the slips at NH are 50'......you get to pay for an extra ten feet if you own a 40' boat.


That said, I have never had a problem with Coastal Management. They do an excellent job of running the Marinas they are contracted for. They are boaters themselves and some live on their boats so the lack of water would be the last thing that would occur. I don't know much about Guest Services except they run Columbia Island and James Creek for the National Park Service. Sometimes the Marina owners are the bigger problem when it comes to getting routine maintenance approved.

John

John-

Thanks for the reply. The insurance is not our complaint. This is fairly standard practice across the board and as a business owner I deal with similar requests from clients all the time.

Our #1 complaint is timing. We don't mind them going away from monthly billing. Our complaint is the annual contracts will run Jan 1 to Dec 31. CIM runs April 1 to March 31, but I've been told that they will be forced onto the same schedule as JCM. This is a combination of Guest Service's management (not at the marina level) and NPS wanting to make this change. This is what I was told by our marina manager, who claims she had almost no input.
Who wants a contract that begins and ends in the middle of winter when your boat is winterized and can't be moved??

Guest Services is pretty much one of the top contractors, in terms of contracting dollars, for NPS to provide management, concessions, housing, etc at NPS properties.

Unfortunately there is a severe shortage of slips in DC. If you're over 35' it's almost impossible to find a slip right now. JCM and CIM have plenty of slips for boats under 25', but nothing if you're over. CIM has a (4) year wait list.

Despite my complaints, JCM is still the cheapest marina. About $900 less than CIM and more than $2k less than National Harbor. National Harbor is a nice facility, but paying for slip size instead of both length is a bit of a joke when 40' is the minimum they charge. Did they ever solve their fuel dock situation? (i.e.: are they selling fuel?)

 

[dpmulvey]

John-

Thanks for the reply. The insurance is not our complaint. This is fairly standard practice across the board and as a business owner I deal with similar requests from clients all the time.

Our #1 complaint is timing. We don't mind them going away from monthly billing. Our complaint is the annual contracts will run Jan 1 to Dec 31. CIM runs April 1 to March 31, but I've been told that they will be forced onto the same schedule as JCM. This is a combination of Guest Service's management (not at the marina level) and NPS wanting to make this change. This is what I was told by our marina manager, who claims she had almost no input.
Who wants a contract that begins and ends in the middle of winter when your boat is winterized and can't be moved??

Guest Services is pretty much one of the top contractors, in terms of contracting dollars, for NPS to provide management, concessions, housing, etc at NPS properties.

Unfortunately there is a severe shortage of slips in DC. If you're over 35' it's almost impossible to find a slip right now. JCM and CIM have plenty of slips for boats under 25', but nothing if you're over. CIM has a (4) year wait list.

Despite my complaints, JCM is still the cheapest marina. About $900 less than CIM and more than $2k less than National Harbor. National Harbor is a nice facility, but paying for slip size instead of both length is a bit of a joke when 40' is the minimum they charge. Did they ever solve their fuel dock situation? (i.e.: are they selling fuel?)

Paying up front for a year means one thing. They have your money and you don’t. For the boat owner, that’s a terrible place to be in at the bargaining table when something goes wrong. I’m curious as to who has oversight of their books. It’s not as if robbing Peter to pay Paul is a new concept.

 

[PlayDate]

This will probably head in the wrong direction but allowing non-boaters to set the rules always ends up in the wrong place. That's why Boat US lobbies to stop repeated attempts by incompetent politicians and government wonks from destroying what is left of the industry. Without them fighting the EPA we would all be running paddle boats. So, why are we surprised that a nonsensical edict from the Park Service would become the law of the land. It makes no sense to anyone who owns a boat on this river to run the slip agreements on a calendar basis. But that is the problem....the people making the call don't own boats.


In regards to National Harbor, the fuel saga has been going on for three years. The brief history is that they submitted plans which were approved and built to standard. They pumped gas for several years until Maryland Department of Natural Resources (refer to my earlier comments) shut them down because they adopted new specifications. $200k later the final tests are under way to restart the pumps but I'm guessing that will be 2016. Coastal Management did everything that was possible to do including lobbying the State but MDNR refused to grant an exception or even a temporary exception so that the gas could flow while the work was done to update the spec. I like NH but I miss the convenience of Gangplank. I burn $100 more in gas just to get to Georgetown and have to suffer through Alexandria's no wake zone.

It is just frustrating......

 

[WDCboater]

UPDATE

So I just had a very long conversation with the new regional GM for Guest Services, the company that manages James Creek. (As well as Columbia Island, and other marinas) He's actually an experienced boater.

1- His goal is to have JCM at 100% occupancy next season. This won't be difficult with Buzzard Point closing.
2- He said Gangplank is going to be closing!! That's 100 more boats that will be looking for a marina. Announcement hasn't been made yet.
3- Coast Guard HQ is being torn down and a new condo complex and 120 slip marina is going in it's place. (Probably 3-5 years from opening)
4- Biggest problem they are trying to fix at JCM is people who haven't been paying their slip fees and ducking out before the end of the month. I guess this cost NPS tens of thousands of dollars and has been a huge issue.
5- Current marina staff is being rearranged and new maintenance and experienced boating staff are coming in over the next few months to get things into better shape.
6- Major renovations to the marina office, docks and safety equipment are starting next month.

Bottom line: Annual contract starts Jan 1 if you want to guarantee a slip come the spring or wait and start an annual contract April 1, but gamble with the fact someone else could take my slip from me if they will sign a Jan 1 agreement.

 

[TyTyler]

I just signed seasonal contract on a slip there last week and they made it seem like they still had plenty of 30'+ slips available. They showed me at least 4 that I was considering. Not sure they even know what is available down there. This is our first boat so I'm just glad we got in regardless.