Prop shafts heavily scratched

[ZZ13]

These are the prop shafts on a 2002 400DB with only 400 hours. Tides shaft seals are getting replaced with PSS since yard does not trust the shafts now for a lip seal. Anyone have any theories as to why they are so scored up for such a long length? Did hard marine growth get packed into the shaft log or something like that?

 

[dtfeld]

That sucks!

The seals are raw water cooled, and I would think its possible that is you sucked up some sand/grit maneuvering in shallow water, some of that material could have made its way through that section of the system.

 

[ZZ13]

That sucks!

The seals are raw water cooled, and I would think its possible that is you sucked up some sand/grit maneuvering in shallow water, some of that material could have made its way through that section of the system.

So do you think that all happened from a one time event rather than years of wear and tear?

Its all good. Owner was getting new shaft seals anyway as the originals are now 17 years old and leaking. Just will be switching to PSS, but many like those better anyway.

 

[dtfeld]

So do you think that all happened from a one time event rather than years of wear and tear?

Its all good. Owner was getting new shaft seals anyway as the originals are now 17 years old and leaking. Just will be switching to PSS, but many like those better anyway.

It could be normal wear or grit...sure looks like some grit. Your post got me reading. Here's one on shaft seals. Seems both PSS and Tides have their strengths and weaknesses. Food for thought.

http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/leaking-dripless-shaft-seal-price-to-replace.77927/

 

[PlayDate]

Frank and I will probably always have a difference of opinion on this but I have yet to see a single PSS failure whereas Tides seals require replacement over time.

 

[sbw1]

Does look like silt/sand scoring to my eye. It's hard to see from the pics if the scoring is deep enough to cause wear issues for new seals. I'm wondering if you can feel the scoring with you fingers or by running a fingernail over the lines. If not, is there an issue? If there is a noticeable difference, can the areas be polished out?

 

[fwebster]

No difference of opinion here, John..........in fact, I replaced my Tides seals with Lasdrop seals last year after having my 5th set of Tides seals fail. The Tides design just doesn't lend itself to operation in shallow water over a sandy bottom. Once you churn up enough sand/silt to pack the seal housing with grit, the seal body wears out and begins to wobble on the shaft which causes what it shown in the photos above.

On seals that are 17 years old, the entire assembly is going to need to be replaced anyway, and PSS seals are about the same cost so you aren't going to spend any more $$ changing to the PSS or Lasdrop carbon or ceramic face seal design.



On the photo on the left, near the bottom of the scored spot, there is a shiny area that appears to be about 1/8" wide.......that is where the lip seal was positioned. The upper part of the shaft right above the lip seal mark is where the nylon seal housing has worn the shaft. It is rough, and will likely wear into a new seal quickly, but you really cannot tell how bad it is unless you can run a finger nail over the area. Sometimes you can change the seal location by moving the hose out on the shaft tube, but this one is so rough I doubt there is enough hose there to make a difference.

In the photo on the right, you can see 2 shiny spots near the top of the scored spot.......that indicates that the lip seal was replaced and repositioned at some time in the past.

 

[PlayDate]

These are the prop shafts on a 2002 400DB with only 400 hours. Tides shaft seals are getting replaced with PSS since yard does not trust the shafts now for a lip seal. Anyone have any theories as to why they are so scored up for such a long length? Did hard marine growth get packed into the shaft log or something like that?

Am I correct in assuming that the yard is reusing your shafts with the new PSS seals? If so.....some care needs to be given to those shafts before the PSS rotor is installed. The rotor at its center has two nitril o rings that provide a seal between the rotor and the shaft. They need a clean smooth surface to seal to. From an installation perspective the rotor is installed at the hub end and slid down and compressed against the bellows. It will transverse the area with the grooves and that can be problematic for the nitril o rings. Nicking an o ring requires the boat to be pulled and the procedure repeated.

I'm sure this isn't there first rodeo but they should polish those shafts and use a lot of liquid hand soap on the shaft as a lubricant. Also, they need to debur the end of the shaft as it goes into the hub to ensure the o rings don't get nicked as the rotor is installed on the shaft. Just my thoughts.

 

[PlayDate]

No difference of opinion here, John..........in fact, I replaced my Tides seals with Lasdrop seals last year after having my 5th set of Tides seals fail. The Tides design just doesn't lend itself to operation in shallow water over a sandy bottom. Once you churn up enough sand/silt to pack the seal housing with grit, the seal body wears out and begins to wobble on the shaft which causes what it shown in the photos above.

On seals that are 17 years old, the entire assembly is going to need to be replaced anyway, and PSS seals are about the same cost so you aren't going to spend any more $$ changing to the PSS or Lasdrop carbon or ceramic face seal design.



On the photo on the left, near the bottom of the scored spot, there is a shiny area that appears to be about 1/8" wide.......that is where the lip seal was positioned. The upper part of the shaft right above the lip seal mark is where the nylon seal housing has worn the shaft. It is rough, and will likely wear into a new seal quickly, but you really cannot tell how bad it is unless you can run a finger nail over the area. Sometimes you can change the seal location by moving the hose out on the shaft tube, but this one is so rough I doubt there is enough hose there to make a difference.

In the photo on the right, you can see 2 shiny spots near the top of the scored spot.......that indicates that the lip seal was replaced and repositioned at some time in the past.

I do recall you mentioning that at one point. Lasdrop seals are awesome and their installation is almost identical to the PSS design.

 

[my3sons]

These are the prop shafts on a 2002 400DB with only 400 hours. Tides shaft seals are getting replaced with PSS since yard does not trust the shafts now for a lip seal. Anyone have any theories as to why they are so scored up for such a long length? Did hard marine growth get packed into the shaft log or something like that?

That sounds like a good theory to me. 400 hrs on a 17 year old boat, setting in salt water. Maybe growth in the raw water cooling side getting pumped through the seals. You use your boat too much, can’t be yours.
My original tides seals have over 2000 hrs on them and only leaked a few drops when we went down the muddy Mississippi. Stopped dripping when we got to the Ohio River and haven’t dripped since. Knock on wood. Pumped really muddy water through them for a few days

 

[ZZ13]

Yes Mark, its my buddies boat. Amazingly when he bought it three years ago it only had 175 hours on it. It was a fresh water floating condo until then. Its been in salt for about 4 years.