Pricing for new 2010 marine engines?

[tobnpr]

Now that all 2010 model marine engines are required to have catalytic converters, I was wondering if anyone has priced one yet.
How much has it added to the cost of the engine?

 

[Lazy Daze]

Sure you want to know? The quick answer is WAY TOO MUCH. It will vary somewhat, depending on boat model (space constraints?) and engine. But, it added about $2K to the engine price. Meaning, for the late '09 and early '10 models, I could of ordered boats either way - with or without the "ECT" option. In that case, the ECT was a $2K option.

However, Sea Ray has now re-structured their pricing somewhat to absorb some of that.

 

[trit21]

Absorb....don't you mean pass on.

 

[randerson]

I just happened to be at the Minneapolis Boat Show (very quiet as far as attendees) last weekend. I was told that, depending upon the engine and size, the prices would run anywhere between $2700 to $5000 per engine.

There was also an article in our local marine magazine that stated the same numbers. Supposedly these prices are passed along and are non-negotiable, whatever that means?

When a business sits on inventory (cash) long enough, everything becomes negotiable.

 

[Lazy Daze]

Absorb....don't you mean pass on.

No. That's not what I mean. I mean Sea Ray changed the price structure so the cost of the boat, itself, is lower, thereby offsetting the ECT increase.

 

[trit21]

From the prices I have seen on new boating, they are still crazy high and not worth it. I don't care how they 'adjusted' the pricing, they charge to much for boat these days with or without the ECT. You own your own business, you know that the end user is who pays for these 'updates'. SeaRay/Mercury (whoever) is not taking the hit on this one.

 

[carterchapman]

We need to get an opinion from my "fellow Tennessean" Al Gore (He didn't spend many days in the state prior to 2000).

As he enjoys his 125' houseboat, I'm not sure he is too worried about what we "mere mortals" will pay for cat converters on our boats. His natural gas bill for his home in Nashville is only $2000 a month (from the investigative reporters) - just like yours and mine, right?

 

[mhtimber]

Now that all 2010 model marine engines are required to have catalytic converters, I was wondering if anyone has priced one yet.
How much has it added to the cost of the engine?

I was talking to my mechanic about this late last summer. He said that the way Mercruiser designed their exhaust, that each cylinder had it's own catalytic converter; and that if one failed they all had to be replaced.

Sounds like Mercury is up to the same old tactic of designing lots of part replacements into their new engines.

2006 is the newest boat I'll own.

Jeff

 

[Dave S]

Rather than worry about the initial cost, I think the bigger issue will be future maintenance cost. I am not sure what to call this new casting component as in the past we have had traditionally three seperate pieces consisting of manifolds, risers, and elbows. It looks like the new casting may combine the riser and elbow into a single unit. The convertor slips into the top of the casting as seen in these photos from Boattest.com

Also, up until now the risers and elbows fit either side of the engine so only one set of parts needed to be stocked. The new ones are unique to each side so seperate castings are required. And it is unclear to me how long the catalytic element will last or whether it will need to be replaced when one of the castings fail or need to be replaced.

In either case I imagine replacement costs will be very expensive.

Dave

 

[Lazy Daze]

Tom, I had a price list in front of me while I made the post. I was hoping to give some honest information and provide information that most people on this board may not be privy to. Don't kill the messenger! When it all plays out, I'm an "end-user" also.

But, I think it is reasonable to think that Sea Ray could have made cuts in other areas to offset that price. Maybe they were able to streamline things. Unfortunately, maybe it also meant eliminating positions. That's all just speculation, though - I honestly don't know how they did it. All I know is that they said they would be doing that.

Here's what I'll do: I'll price out a late 2009 boat and the same thing for 2010. We'll see what the price comes out to - that way we'll know for sure.

Oh, I appreciate the thought, but I'm just a lowly, lowly worker - not the owner.


Carter: Holy crap! I wonder what "Mr. Green's" carbon foot print is?:wow:


Dave: Good question. I don't have an answer, but it's a valid point.

 

[tobnpr]

Mercury's website has no info at all- like it doesn't even exist.

This is the Crusader/PCM system:

http://www.pleasurecraft.com/catanium.html

 

[Dave S]

Unless I am mistaken, I also believe some of the 2010 motors (such as "leftover" 496s) will not require catalytic convertors.

Dave

 

[sbw1]

Unless I am mistaken, I also believe some of the 2010 motors (such as "leftover" 496s) will not require catalytic convertors. Dave

That could very well be true. However, the engineering solution has been around for awhile. We were at the Tiara gathering in Wisconsin three or four years ago and the Crusader people were saying that they had a working system that was being tested and would be ready for the new standard with plenty of time. Merc must have been doing the same.

 

[tobnpr]

Wonder if there's any information on how these systems actually work- for some reason it's like a big secret...
It looks like the entire system is FWC with raw water injected just before the exhaust hose like it is on my 6.0 Crusader. So maybe no more riser replacements.

But don't cat converters generate a tremendous amount of heat?

 

[SCORPIO]

We went to the Baltimore show last weekend and I talked to a guy who sells Merc crate engines. He said the cost of the cat. convertors is about $900.00 per side! plus manifolds and that they would last about five years in salt water. Sounds like very expensive maint. to me. He also said that after this year, he will not be able to sell replacement crate engines that don't have cat. convertors. He also stated that all new engines will require your old engine be returned for destruction! Here is where I have a question about what he was saying. I asked what would happen if I wanted to repower my '89 300 with new Merc 350s and he said they would have to be equiped with convertors. I was under the impression that you cannot be forced to upgrade the emissions equipment of a vehicle (car or boat) beyond what the standards in force at the time of manufacture. The guy stated that the only way to go would be to replace with reman long blocks. Anybody know anything about this?

 

[Lazy Daze]

But don't cat converters generate a tremendous amount of heat?

That is my understanding, too. I thought the heat issue was one of the things that caused production to take as long as it did? Figuring out how to cool them efficiently in an enclosed area. Aside from the expected resistance, that is.

I know about as much as you guys do about this. I have been putting off learning more about it because I guess part of me kept hoping it would "just go away". I know... a lot of wishful thinking... :smt101

 

[Lazy Daze]

For those that are interested...

I picked 4 boats to compare pricing from the end of last season (without ECT) to now (with ECT). They are a 205 Sport, 240SD, 240SDA and 280SDA (all noted in 2010 designations). Don't ask me why... but it seems they're using SDA instead of DA this year (at least on my pricing sheets) :smt101

Keeping apples to apples (except for the addition of ECT), the 205 increased approximately $2,000.

The 240SD went down about $2,000.

The 240SDA went down about $1,800.

The 280SDA went up about $3,000.

For the 205 and 280DA, the ECT accounted for $1,875 of the increase.

The two boats that went down in price, includes adding in ECT.

As I quickly looked at other models, it appears others went down, as well. Some even more significantly than above. Others stayed about the same. Others went up.

Overall, it does appear that more boats stayed the same or went down in price, than up.

I didn't look at anything larger - quite honestly, it's a lot of writing, flipping pages and comparing. The larger a boat gets, the harder it is to evenly compare. :smt015