mawyatt
New Member
Jerry,
Would a small continous duty 120VAC fan help with the air circulation?
Would a small continous duty 120VAC fan help with the air circulation?
Premature air conditioner failure
- Thread starter ThermalDynamicsSales.com
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- air conditioner 380
ThermalDynamicsSales.com
New Member
- Aug 10, 2009
- 12
Mike,
Yes, very good idea if I can achieve positive air flow. But if I put a fan in without a way for the hot air to escape, then I'm just moving hot air around. My other concern was fan noise. If I put a grill in for some additional air flow across the compressor then put the fan in the grill, it would be easy to hear while trying to sleep. I've actually received a lot of fan noise complaints in the past. Not much can be done if the boat builder designed it that way.
I was at the boat today and spent some time looking at the install. There is a surprise ending to this endeavor which will be in my next post as well as pictures I took.
Jerry-
Yes, very good idea if I can achieve positive air flow. But if I put a fan in without a way for the hot air to escape, then I'm just moving hot air around. My other concern was fan noise. If I put a grill in for some additional air flow across the compressor then put the fan in the grill, it would be easy to hear while trying to sleep. I've actually received a lot of fan noise complaints in the past. Not much can be done if the boat builder designed it that way.
I was at the boat today and spent some time looking at the install. There is a surprise ending to this endeavor which will be in my next post as well as pictures I took.
Jerry-
tobnpr
New Member
Your post got me thinking about a problem I've had with a brand-new unit I just installed. I replaced the original Marine Air unit that bit the dust (after twenty-four years it sure didn't owe me anything) with a Mermaid unit. Under the berth in the guest stateroom, I had to change the to a different discharge (top to side discharge) and relocate from the original location. The original MA unit could not be duplicated in size and SR had it placed so that the top discharge went directly up into a small plenum in the upper cabinet. No current models would fit the old footprint.
I relocated the new unit so that it sits almost directly in front of the R/A grille. The unit failed a couple of days ago (seems to be a refrigerant leak). I also noticed that the new unit's comressor gets HOT- and I mean can't hold your hand on it, hot. The manuf tells me that's normal... The compressor on the 16K Marine Air in the salon stays cool to the touch.
Mermaid does not mention anything about ventilation or ambient temperatures in the operating instructions. I'm going to check to see if I have room to move it a bit further away from the R/A opening to allow for more circulation around the unit. Couldn't hurt...
I relocated the new unit so that it sits almost directly in front of the R/A grille. The unit failed a couple of days ago (seems to be a refrigerant leak). I also noticed that the new unit's comressor gets HOT- and I mean can't hold your hand on it, hot. The manuf tells me that's normal... The compressor on the 16K Marine Air in the salon stays cool to the touch.
Mermaid does not mention anything about ventilation or ambient temperatures in the operating instructions. I'm going to check to see if I have room to move it a bit further away from the R/A opening to allow for more circulation around the unit. Couldn't hurt...
Robski97
Well-Known Member
JG is 100 % correct. they even make a compressor Blanket to further deaden a compressors sound. So ur down the wrong path.
Compressors require NO ventiliation.
Rob
Compressors require NO ventiliation.
Rob
ThermalDynamicsSales.com
New Member
- Aug 10, 2009
- 12
Hello everyone.
This is probably going to be my last posting. I have the final conclusion to this problem and I urge all 38 owners to keep this problem in mind. Also I have taken 12 pictures for you to view. As it turns out this is a fix anyone can do.
Take a deep breath, this is a lengthy post.
As mentioned in a previous post, at first glance it appears to be a typical installation. There is some working room to the left and right side unit but only about 1/ 1/2" inches behind the unit. As best as I can see their might be a 1/2" between the evaporator and intake grill. Considering all of these factors this is a very well insulated and tight box. And not the volume the compressor or electrical box needs to dissipate heat.
To reiterate, the compartment has very thick dense rubbery black sound proofing (about 1-2 inches) and has the mattress on top. The bunk is built very well and I can't determine the thickness of the wood that makes up the bunk but it adds to the insulating factor as well as does the thin headliner material around the outside of the bunk.
In speaking with Tecumseh which is the compressor manufacture (not the air conditioner manufacturer) they said that the compressor absolutely has to have air movement or the compressors oil inside will break down and turn to sludge and the compressor will seize. During our long conversation he went into detail about compressors that have a water jacket to run water around the compressors piston cylinders which is similar to a cars engine. He also added that in some situations the compressor is outside of a building for cooling both the compressor and obviously the condenser. Just thought I would pass that onto you so you can understand the importance of a cooler compressor. Both instances he was referring to commercial and industrial applications.
And now for the surprise.
As I started to plan the location of an additional grill, to my surprise I noticed an opening right where I wanted the grill ! The only way to see it is if your on your hands and knees looking up towards the underside of the mattress overhang. Or if your hanging over the side of the bed upside down.(see pictures)
So Sea Ray knew enough to put the additional opening after all.
Here is the problem.
They mounted the electrical box were the opening is. Which totally defeats the purpose of having the opening. Solution: Mount the electrical box somewhere else. If you cut the tye wraps securing the wire harness there should be plenty of wire to either move it to the shelf on the other side or (this is what I'm going to do) mount it with the type of Velcro that snaps together (not the hook and loop type) directly on top of the evaporator over the serial numbers so the electrical box stays cooler and is assessable.
Easy right? I wish. There are other obstacles. The electrical box was crammed up into the corner and the upper 2 screws are not accessible at all. I pulled apart the entire bunk before I could get to them. But after disassembling the entire bunk and seeing how the bunk was put together, it can be done a little easier.
I will explain this the best way I can. But basically it's just a matter of using a screw gun and having the patience.
As you know when you lift the mattress there is a compartment underneath for storage. That storage is actually a separate box screwed in place and it needs to come out because the 2 screw heads for the electrical box are directly in line with the bottom of the storage box. Along the inner wall of the storage box are the obvious screws that need to be removed. But be careful because I found 3 screws with the heads snapped off and I had to use a hacksaw to cut them because they were still holding the box to the bunk. There is also one screw almost directly in the middle of the bunk on top near the hinge that holds up the other end of the box. This will also need to be removed. And the last 4 screws that hold the storage box are underneath near the air intake. 2 on each corner screwed directly upwards into the storage box.
Once the box is out you will have easy access to the upper screws for the electrical box. It's a little tricky getting the storage box back in because it's a tight fit but it can be done. If your feeling ambitious, the storage box will come out easier if you unscrew the platform the mattress rests on. It is only half the length of the bunk and only a few more screws. I went as far as removing the padded lip that holds the mattress in place. If you remove everything it may amount to 15 (+/-) screws.
And finally.
I noticed I can't see through the opening from the outside into the air conditioners compartment. I do see some piece of wood and behind the wood is black. And looking where the electrical box is I can't see from the inside out either. I think they put the sound deadening material which is black over the opening. That is yet to be determined but I don't think it's anything major to deal with.
Pictures as promised are at the link below.
http://picasaweb.google.com/ThermalDynamicsSales.com/SeaRay38?feat=directlink
And that's it.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and stay cool !
Jerry Staunton-
This is probably going to be my last posting. I have the final conclusion to this problem and I urge all 38 owners to keep this problem in mind. Also I have taken 12 pictures for you to view. As it turns out this is a fix anyone can do.
Take a deep breath, this is a lengthy post.
As mentioned in a previous post, at first glance it appears to be a typical installation. There is some working room to the left and right side unit but only about 1/ 1/2" inches behind the unit. As best as I can see their might be a 1/2" between the evaporator and intake grill. Considering all of these factors this is a very well insulated and tight box. And not the volume the compressor or electrical box needs to dissipate heat.
To reiterate, the compartment has very thick dense rubbery black sound proofing (about 1-2 inches) and has the mattress on top. The bunk is built very well and I can't determine the thickness of the wood that makes up the bunk but it adds to the insulating factor as well as does the thin headliner material around the outside of the bunk.
In speaking with Tecumseh which is the compressor manufacture (not the air conditioner manufacturer) they said that the compressor absolutely has to have air movement or the compressors oil inside will break down and turn to sludge and the compressor will seize. During our long conversation he went into detail about compressors that have a water jacket to run water around the compressors piston cylinders which is similar to a cars engine. He also added that in some situations the compressor is outside of a building for cooling both the compressor and obviously the condenser. Just thought I would pass that onto you so you can understand the importance of a cooler compressor. Both instances he was referring to commercial and industrial applications.
And now for the surprise.
As I started to plan the location of an additional grill, to my surprise I noticed an opening right where I wanted the grill ! The only way to see it is if your on your hands and knees looking up towards the underside of the mattress overhang. Or if your hanging over the side of the bed upside down.(see pictures)
So Sea Ray knew enough to put the additional opening after all.
Here is the problem.
They mounted the electrical box were the opening is. Which totally defeats the purpose of having the opening. Solution: Mount the electrical box somewhere else. If you cut the tye wraps securing the wire harness there should be plenty of wire to either move it to the shelf on the other side or (this is what I'm going to do) mount it with the type of Velcro that snaps together (not the hook and loop type) directly on top of the evaporator over the serial numbers so the electrical box stays cooler and is assessable.
Easy right? I wish. There are other obstacles. The electrical box was crammed up into the corner and the upper 2 screws are not accessible at all. I pulled apart the entire bunk before I could get to them. But after disassembling the entire bunk and seeing how the bunk was put together, it can be done a little easier.
I will explain this the best way I can. But basically it's just a matter of using a screw gun and having the patience.
As you know when you lift the mattress there is a compartment underneath for storage. That storage is actually a separate box screwed in place and it needs to come out because the 2 screw heads for the electrical box are directly in line with the bottom of the storage box. Along the inner wall of the storage box are the obvious screws that need to be removed. But be careful because I found 3 screws with the heads snapped off and I had to use a hacksaw to cut them because they were still holding the box to the bunk. There is also one screw almost directly in the middle of the bunk on top near the hinge that holds up the other end of the box. This will also need to be removed. And the last 4 screws that hold the storage box are underneath near the air intake. 2 on each corner screwed directly upwards into the storage box.
Once the box is out you will have easy access to the upper screws for the electrical box. It's a little tricky getting the storage box back in because it's a tight fit but it can be done. If your feeling ambitious, the storage box will come out easier if you unscrew the platform the mattress rests on. It is only half the length of the bunk and only a few more screws. I went as far as removing the padded lip that holds the mattress in place. If you remove everything it may amount to 15 (+/-) screws.
And finally.
I noticed I can't see through the opening from the outside into the air conditioners compartment. I do see some piece of wood and behind the wood is black. And looking where the electrical box is I can't see from the inside out either. I think they put the sound deadening material which is black over the opening. That is yet to be determined but I don't think it's anything major to deal with.
Pictures as promised are at the link below.
http://picasaweb.google.com/ThermalDynamicsSales.com/SeaRay38?feat=directlink
And that's it.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and stay cool !
Jerry Staunton-
Blah blah blah.....WRONG. The compressor is NOT cooled with air.
The whole thread is bogus. Waste of twelve posts and countless words. The only good news is you stated it would be your last post.
Let's at least hope that's accurate.
