Possible 410 DA Purchase

Discussion in 'Newbie Lounge - NEW' started by hexplor1, Nov 10, 2011.

  1. copb8tx

    copb8tx Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jan 26, 2008
    Lake Texoma, TX
    2005 420 Sundancer
    T-8.1S Horizons
    It all depends on where and how you're going to use your boat. If it's inland and short hops you'll be very happy with the 8.1's and so will any prospective buyers in the future in your area. If you're on the coast and in salt water then the appeal of the boat will plummet. I'm on one of the largest freshwater lakes in Texas and have a good friend who is a Sea Ray salesman. He's says that 90% of the 420's he sold (so I have to assume the same is true for the 410's) where gassers. People here just don't value the long range capability of the diesel's as they do on open water.

    Put me on the coast and I wouldn't select my boat again, but with how we boat I'm thrilled with it.
     
  2. mistercomputerman

    mistercomputerman Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 6, 2008
    Virginia Beach, VA
    410 Sundancer - 2001
    Twin 8.1L Mercruisers - 2009
    If the flow scans are correct (and when they tell me I have burned 100 gallons, I have burned a 100 gallons) then the numbers are pretty accurate. We are going to experiment with adding some cup to the props in the spring to try and get the 3700 rpm cruise up to 23 knots, but, the motors are fine the bottom is slick, the trim is correct and proper.

    I carry A LOT of stuff with me, from clothing, to spare parts, to tools, to full tanks. You are right about the fuel and water. It is the equivalent of riding around with 15.23 two hundred pound people on board all the time.
     
  3. osd9

    osd9 New Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    MidAtlantic
    2003 410DA
    Caterpillar 3126-TA w/ ZF 80-IV

    For the record, and I'm sure I speak for Frank H and GW, I will NOT be kissing any male person's lily white arse....!!!



    That right there is a keeper....

    That must be some of that new South math. The difference between 1.0 mpg and .6 mpg is more like 40% less....or $4400....using average fuel burns.....and that assumes gas and diesel are the same price per gallon....which diesel is less on the water....so round it up to $4500 anually. Over a 5 year ownership that's a savings of $22,500....nothing to sneeze at.


    The 410DA is a GREAT boat! Speaking solely DA, it's plenty big enough for an average family or a cruising couple who like to entertain. The second head and real aft cabin door are a luxury no matter how you look at it. Tons of cockpit space and just the right amount down below. My CAT powered diesel 410DA has excellent handling manners around the dock and very respectifull performance out on the open water.

    I run my motors between 2325 RPMs and 2425 RPMs and make 22-24 knots depending on conditions and loading. I keep very detailed logs and use the old fashioned "AVERAGE" calculation to determine my fuel burn. I consistantly 'average' 1.1 sMPG.
     
  4. RollerCoastr

    RollerCoastr Well-Known Member

    Nov 15, 2007
    Cedar Point, OH / Miami, FL / MacRay Harbor, MI
    1997 400DA
    340HP 7.4 Mercruiser Bluewaters
    Garmin 8212, 741 24HD, Intellian I2
    1999 280BR
    Twin 250HP Merc 350 Alpha Ones
    Rick,

    I believe your data - flowscans etc. I just don't accept it as optimal, or even normal for that matter.

    I'm glad to hear that you're willing to tune the propps. I think that will go a long way, but I wouldn't be happy with even 23 knots at 3,700. Would you consider lightening the load too? I use my fuel meters to gauge my remaining fuel, and that has allowed me to travel much lighter than I was comfortable with in the past. Assuming calm water, I can go faster and further.
     
  5. RollerCoastr

    RollerCoastr Well-Known Member

    Nov 15, 2007
    Cedar Point, OH / Miami, FL / MacRay Harbor, MI
    1997 400DA
    340HP 7.4 Mercruiser Bluewaters
    Garmin 8212, 741 24HD, Intellian I2
    1999 280BR
    Twin 250HP Merc 350 Alpha Ones
    All good points Dom, but we need to keep in mind that Rick's boat doesn't represent a well-tuned 410!
     
  6. ImpulseIII

    ImpulseIII Active Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    Jersey Shore/Venice FL
    2001 410 Sundancer
    Caterpillar 3126TA
    Rick will keep changing engines until he gets it right.

    Rick----how many engines are you up to? Yeah--yeah- yeah, I know, you didn't have to pay for them......
     
  7. HUMPH

    HUMPH Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2009
    SF BAY AREA
    2003 410DA,
    2004 C14 Caribe
    CAT 3126TA's 350HP/
    50HP Honda
    That does it, I am calling the prop scan guy today! I am only getting 20knots at those RPM's
     
  8. ImpulseIII

    ImpulseIII Active Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    Jersey Shore/Venice FL
    2001 410 Sundancer
    Caterpillar 3126TA
    Has Gary commented on your raked back antenna?
     
  9. osd9

    osd9 New Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    MidAtlantic
    2003 410DA
    Caterpillar 3126-TA w/ ZF 80-IV
    Ken:

    A few Q's...

    -What tachs do you have? If they are the factory analog tachs, then you are only guessing. Upgrade to the Aetna digitals and you will never look back.

    -Assuming you have factory analog tachs, have you ever laser tached your WOT RPMs? You should work the props to see ~2825 RPMs +/-15 RPMs FULLY loaded with a clean bottom. That's how you will know that you are getting the right amount of horsepower out of the motors while at the same time optimally loading them.

    -Have the valves been timed by a CAT certified tech according to the service manuals?

    Factory props on CAT powered 410DAs are 22 X 23 with a slight cup. I bought a set of identical spares when I got my boat 5 years ago. I tuned them each year for the first three years till I got it right. Right now they are 22 X 22 with a custom cup put in by my prop shop. Props are so important to aquire optimum performance from any setup.
     
  10. quality time

    quality time Well-Known Member

    Oct 30, 2007
    Upper Chesapeake Bay
    2003 480DB and Kencraft 190 CC
    QSM11's
    Can I make fun of Rick even though I don't have a 410? Rick's burning twice what I do at planing speeds and our boats aren't that different. Dom is right, the correct props make all the difference. Sometimes you just have to throw out the old ones and buy pretty new ones.
     
  11. mistercomputerman

    mistercomputerman Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 6, 2008
    Virginia Beach, VA
    410 Sundancer - 2001
    Twin 8.1L Mercruisers - 2009
    Ahchoo! You still can't buy a single 3126 rebuild for that kind of money.

    And I figured that SOME YANKEE who was sitting around the house all day today because they are a State employee and today is a holiday for those folks, would whip out a calculator and question my math. 30%, 40%, whatever... I have to run 300+ miles, one-way to Atlantic City, NJ just to say hi to youse guys. You are so close to AC, you don't even have to unplug your shore power cord to get there.

    I appreciate the input on the performance, but, it is not my nature to lug all my stuff in and out of the boat every time I want to go somewhere to lighten the load. Nor is it my nature to run around with little or no fuel because I don't think I am going too far. So, we have to tune the props as she sits and that'll be the best it can do.

    Coments are welcome from the diesel boat peanut gallery.

    PS. I am on the way to NJ in about 30 minutes. I wish I could stay and visit, maybe spill some beer and food on your boat carpets, but, I am in and out. Maybe next time!
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
  12. mistercomputerman

    mistercomputerman Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 6, 2008
    Virginia Beach, VA
    410 Sundancer - 2001
    Twin 8.1L Mercruisers - 2009
    [h=2]Re: Possible 410 DA Purchase[/h]
    Can I make fun of Rick even though I don't have a 410? Rick's burning twice what I do at planing speeds and our boats aren't that different. Dom is right, the correct props make all the difference. Sometimes you just have to throw out the old ones and buy pretty new ones​



    Go on with it. It's part of the deal.

    If a fellow is here and can't take a little ribbing now and again, well, it just ain't the place for you...I have been listening to the Josiey Boys make fun of my gasser ever since I got here and every year at the annual Atlantic City get together. No reason for them to stop now.
     
  13. osd9

    osd9 New Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    MidAtlantic
    2003 410DA
    Caterpillar 3126-TA w/ ZF 80-IV
    God Bless you! Can you buy 2 ( or is it 3 now) gas repowers for that kind of money?
     
  14. RollerCoastr

    RollerCoastr Well-Known Member

    Nov 15, 2007
    Cedar Point, OH / Miami, FL / MacRay Harbor, MI
    1997 400DA
    340HP 7.4 Mercruiser Bluewaters
    Garmin 8212, 741 24HD, Intellian I2
    1999 280BR
    Twin 250HP Merc 350 Alpha Ones
    Fair enough. Everyone should make their own priorities. Even so, your boat is skewing all kinds of expectations here on CSR, so on behalf of well-performing gas boats, would you mind asking Gary to Photoshop a pic of a your boat with a bunch of Envinrudes on your swim platform so they don't think MY boat is a slow-arse gas guzzler? :grin:
     
  15. douglee25

    douglee25 Active Member

    Jan 13, 2008
    NJ
    Boatless
    Big ones!
    Good thread!

    Doug
     
  16. Alex F

    Alex F Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 14, 2006
    East Coast
    2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Dual E120 MFD/Radar/XMWeather, ST7001 A/P, AIS, SeaLift
    T-Cummins 450Cs Straight-Drives, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
    Rick,

    I guess at this point the only question is, are you making your rated WOT RPMs with all the gear, fuel and water?
     
  17. techmitch

    techmitch Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    May 1, 2008
    Chesapeake Bay, Middle River/Frog Mortar Creek MD.
    1999 270 DA
    Twin 4.3s W/Alpa I Gen II's
    Alex, that is the best question of the thread.
     
  18. mistercomputerman

    mistercomputerman Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 6, 2008
    Virginia Beach, VA
    410 Sundancer - 2001
    Twin 8.1L Mercruisers - 2009
    Excellent question.

    At this very moment, I am about 200 rpm low.

    When we went in this Spring we were making 4600, with all the crap on the boat, fully loaded, which is rated WOT for these 370 hp engines.

    I have spare wheels in the garage. I have already talked to the prop guy and the yard guy and they will cooperate with a bunch of testing for a reasonable price.

    So, we bang these back to spec, then we start cupping them. If I can get 23 knots at anything less than 3900 I can keep up with Speed Racer on a jaunt up or down the Bay. One of Dom's buds at Atlantic City this year thought it could be done.

    Prop guy thinks he can get it there.

    Here are Sea Ray specs for 2003:

    2003 410 spec.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
  19. techmitch

    techmitch Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    May 1, 2008
    Chesapeake Bay, Middle River/Frog Mortar Creek MD.
    1999 270 DA
    Twin 4.3s W/Alpa I Gen II's
    Hey Rick, Sorry but gotta ask again, can you obtain WOT ?
     
  20. techmitch

    techmitch Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    May 1, 2008
    Chesapeake Bay, Middle River/Frog Mortar Creek MD.
    1999 270 DA
    Twin 4.3s W/Alpa I Gen II's
    Edit: reread the entire thread, saw ur getting Wot . I prefer to run fully loaded also. Some serious cup may be in order. dunno?
     

Share This Page

Show Sidebar