Optima Batteries / Charger Questions

BadaBingII

New Member
Nov 9, 2006
103
Illinois
Boat Info
2003 340 Sundancer
Engines
8.1 v drives
I have a 2003 340 with 8.1's. The boat came with 4 group 27 lead acid batteries. It's time to replace them and I'm thinking of going with the Optima maintenance free batteries.

First question: Would I be better off moving to group 31's, if so what are advantages?

Second question: If I replace all 4 batteries with the Optima's, will my charger work the same? Have heard that it might need reprogrammed for different type or group of batteries.

Third question: I leave the charger on at all times at the dock and have had great battery life. Will leaving the charger on cause any harm to the Optima's?

I have tried to search the topic but for some reason the search won't work.

Thanks,

Jeff
Bada Bing II
 
Jeff,
I am not an electrician, and as such I will not attempt to answer your question from a technical perspective. What I do know is that my 03 420DA had the factory basic load of 5 Group 27 batteries when we had her surveyed. Three failed load test. As part of the negotiation I had all five replaced with Optima AGM Deep Cycle "Blue Top" batteries. I bought them from a local battery distributor for $180 each. Once installed, I have never bothered with them again. Zero maintenance. I leave the boat's battery charger on at all times, including in the water layup over winter...and the Optimas have never failed to turn the Cummins over no matter how cold the weather is. I am sold on these batteries. I expect 5 years from them, and will replace them with the equivalent Optima product. Zero maintenance. Realiable performance. I like that.

regards
Skip
 
These "I have heard things" scare me because most of the time they are either not right, or worse, right enough to make you think they are right but wrong enough to get you in trouble.

The thing about AGM batteries is that they cannot stand over charging...to much charging voltage or charging too long are both bad. Since sometime in the mid 90's, the chargers Sea Ray has used on their larger boats has been a smart charger that reads battery condition and sets charging conditions appropriately. That means the charger cuts off completely when the battery banks are charged so you are prevented from over charging. If you had an early '90's charger I'd say you might have a problem. But with a newer boat, just install AGM's and go boating.

?1.Check the specs on the battery sizes and pick the one that fits your needs. A group 31 is a larger battery than a group 27 or 24 so it is going to have more capacity, but I suspect the cranking amps are about the same.

?2.Find the guy you heard say you need to have your charger re-programmed and have him give you the phone number of the battery charger reprogrammer.....then post it here if you don't mind I'd like to talk to him, maybe he will buy my battery wrench.

?3. Leave the charger on and forget the AGM batteries until April 2013.

Seriously, the one sort of abnormal characteristic concerning AGM batteries is that they don't give you much warning when they give up the ghost. I have limped along with weak lead acid batteries for months until it made sense to change them. But with AGM's you will notice one day the engines don't crank as fast, then the next day they won't even turn the engines over. Get tuned in to your engine cranking speed and when you hear it slowing down, get ready, you are about to spend some battery money.
 
Replaced all 4 with Optima Blue Deep Cycles and did nothing else. The Group 31's wouldn't fit in my 340 - I think that was the number. I went with the same number, but deep cycle. If cranking amps are an issue, I have other problems.
 
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So long as your charger is a "universal" type charger, you'll be okay. If it is specifically for a type of battery, you'll want to compare specs between your charger and the charging specs on optima's website. If you have a way to program your charger or adjustments that can be made for the battery type, be sure to switch it to "AGM"; this will tailor the charging parameters to the type of battery.

The difference in the grouping is essentially a size/power difference. Get on the optima website to see the exact numbers but the group 31 will have higher over-all capacity, higher reserve capacity, higher cranking amps, cold cranking amps and less internal resistance (which means the battery itself will be more efficient). This does come at a cost of size and weight when compared to the group 34. You'd need to do some measuring and light math to determine which battery is right for you.

http://www.optimabatteries.com/optima_edge/technical_specs.php

Also, if not dead set on optima... look at the Sears Die Hard Platinum PM-1 / PM-2:
Group 31 (PM-1): http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02850131000P?vName=Automotive&cName=Batteries+%26+Chargers&sName=Marine+Batteries

Group 34: (PM-2) http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...e=Batteries+&+Chargers&sName=Marine+Batteries
 
My original equipment Pro Mariner battery charger has two dip switch settings on it. One setting is for AGM and one for wet cell batteries. It also has an adjustment dial for charge and float voltage levels. I suspect that people refer to this as programming when in fact it is setting charge values.

Anyone unfamiliar with the charger on there boat should get the manual and check it over to see if it has charge settings for different types of batteries. The Optima site has the charge rates and voltages recommended for best performance of their batteries.

http://www.optimabatteries.com/optima_edge/technical_specs.php#yellow1
 
?2.Find the guy you heard say you need to have your charger re-programmed and have him give you the phone number of the battery charger reprogrammer.....then post it here if you don't mind I'd like to talk to him, maybe he will buy my battery wrench.


I'm sure you mean in reference to the particular charger installed in the boat (of which you would have much more knowledge than myself), but just in case you're speaking in general about chargers:

Xantrex XC charger (I have used/installed various Xantrex chargers, to include this one which is at work): http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/180/p/1/pt/24/product.asp

Manual: http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/1347/docserve.aspx

Page 41, 2-15
To configure the battery bank type:

1. Press and hold
MODE until set (setup) is displayed.

2. Press TYPE to select the battery type configuration programming mode.

The XC Series will default to Bank 1 and will show the present battery type
setting.
3. Press BANK repeatedly to select which bank you are setting up. The bank
indicator light will illuminate to show which bank has been selected.
4. Press TYPE repeatedly to select the battery type for each bank. When you have
selected a battery type that is different from the present configuration, the bank
indicator light flashes.
Set the TYPE according to the table below:
5. Press and hold ON/STANDBY until yes is displayed to store the selected battery
type. If no is displayed, verify that you are setting the correct battery type and
try again.
6. Repeat steps 1 through 4 for all banks attached to the XC Series. Each time yes
is displayed for a newly programmed battery type, the charger exits the
programming mode.
7. At any time during setup, you can press ON/STANDBY once to cancel the current
change and return to charging or battery monitoring.





If your battery is then select

Flooded Lead Acid (has removable caps intended for refilling)


FLa


GEL (any sealed type except AGM)
GEL


Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM)
AGM


Lead Calcium
LdC

Custom (if pre-configured at factory)
CUS



As stated above, the ability to adjust these settings, parameters or charge values are so you can match the way in which the charger handles your battery to the specific make-up of the battery. There are general charging guidelines for battery types which work in virtually all cases, and manufactures (such as optima) will list specific charging guidelines for their own product. It is VERY important not to over-charge the optima as stated... they WILL out-gas when over-charged, and can even sometimes out-gas during bulk charge.
 
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Replace all 4 with Optima Blue Deep Cycles and did nothing else. The Group 31's wouldn't fit in my 340 - I think that was the number. I went with the same number, but deep cycle. If cranking amps are an issue, I have other problems.

So did you put the group 31 deep cycle batteries in? Or Group 34s? What group ended up fitting in your 340?

Thanks,

Jeff

Bada Bing II
 
I'd imagine he used group 34 if he ran blue tops. The options are limited for blue-top batteries; more selection avail for the yellow top.
 
I installed AGM batteries on the previous boat, three 31 group and a 27 for the genny. They were great. Just install them and forget them, and I left the Xantrex 40 charging them (on the AGM setting) all season long.

I shopped brands using the recommendations of "Powerboat Reports" and got the Trojan AGM's. They did a report a few years ago on AGM's before they stopped publishing.

James
 
I have Trojan AGM on (4)8D batteries and an Optima Blue Top Starting battery on my genny. Set and FORGET. I'll never own another lead acid battery.
 
So did you put the group 31 deep cycle batteries in? Or Group 34s? What group ended up fitting in your 340?

Thanks,

Jeff

Bada Bing II

I looked it up. I was wrong. They are :

4 Optima D31M Blue Top Deep Cycle Marine, Battery 8052-161D31M $217.60 $870.40
 
John what is the amp hour capacity of each D31M battery? How many batteries needed for a 500 ah house bank?
Thanks,
Warren
 
Thanks to all of you for your input. This is an awesome forum!

Jeff
Bada Bing II
 
Interesting charger discussion at the Optima web site.

http://www.1st-optima-batteries.com/faq8.asp

1st Optima Battery Sales
U.S.A. Retail Source of Superior OPTIMA Batteries for Automotive, Marine and Deep-Cycle Applications
1-800-433-1091





What kind of charger do I need for an Optima?

Can OPTIMA batteries be charged with a solar charger or trickle charger?



Optima batteries do not require any special type of charger.

If your Optima battery will sit unused for extended periods of time, a maintenance charger can be used to keep it fully charged. (Sitting for extended periods in a discharged state will degrade the performance and shorten the life of any battery.)

You can monitor the voltage state of your batteries during or after use by installing a volt meter available at any auto or marine parts supply house.
 
I'll be the contrarian again. I don't see the point in spending four times as much for a battery that only last twice as long. I have to get down in the engine room anyway to check the dipsticks. It's not all that much effort to add distilled water every couple of weeks.

Best regards,
Frank
 
I'll be the contrarian again. I don't see the point in spending four times as much for a battery that only last twice as long. I have to get down in the engine room anyway to check the dipsticks. It's not all that much effort to add distilled water every couple of weeks.

Best regards,
Frank

Frank - To each their own. It's good to have these discussions so that each individual can then decide what's most important to them. The biggest problem I've ever had is making a purchase with less than the whole story, then having second thoughts. There are two things which make it worth my while - Not having to get into them and check levels every couple of weeks, not having them start to die again in a couple of years, and not having to worry about them at all for several years. (Two, or three things).

Plus, I went with deep discharge batteries so that I don't have to worry about running them down a little because I really like to minimize genny use.
 

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