One tab won't go down

J

jkim1990

Member
Sep 19, 2010
117
East Islip, NY
Boat Info
300 Sundancer
Kohler 5E
Engines
Twin 5.0 MPI w/ Bravo III
Just cut wrap open (finally!) and was checking trim tabs when I noticed that one tab will not go down. One side goes up and down fine. On the other side, when I press button for tab to go down, motor does not activate. When I press up (even though tab is up already), motor runs.

I have been through the great troubleshooting posts and videos by TabMan. First plan is to pull switches and confirm lead for down on faulty tab is connected. Then plan to connect wire directly to hot and see if it works.

Other than that, any thoughts on troubleshooting? Would appreciate any feedback as soon as possible, hauler is coming on Saturday!!!!
 
Jason,

Yes do the tests described in the troubleshooting and videos. Since the motor runs up and down on ones side and only up on the other chances are you have a loose or missing screw or corroded connection on the back of the switch. Remember all 12 screws on the back of the switch need to be clean and tight even if they don't have a wire attached to them.

I will be standing by to here what you find!

Tom
Bennett Marine.
 
Tabman said:
Jason,

Yes do the tests described in the troubleshooting and videos. Since the motor runs up and down on ones side and only up on the other chances are you have a loose or missing screw or corroded connection on the back of the switch. Remember all 12 screws on the back of the switch need to be clean and tight even if they don't have a wire attached to them.

I will be standing by to here what you find!

Tom
Bennett Marine.
Click to expand...

Tom - Thanks for confirming and will let you know what I find out.... Much appreciated!!!
 
You get us all when you get a Sea Ray !!!! Why would you even consider another boat...and Tom's product is on many other brands but here he is on CSR..any questions?


Capt. Rusty Higgins
Sea Ray Boats
 
Tabman said:
Jason,

Yes do the tests described in the troubleshooting and videos. Since the motor runs up and down on ones side and only up on the other chances are you have a loose or missing screw or corroded connection on the back of the switch. Remember all 12 screws on the back of the switch need to be clean and tight even if they don't have a wire attached to them.

I will be standing by to here what you find!

Tom
Bennett Marine.
Click to expand...



Quick update - Jumped 12V from battery to 4 wires on motor directly and solenoids and motor run perfectly.


Sea Ray (in their infinite wisdom) does not use 5 wires directly from helm to the trim pump. They run through some type of mux processor in the aft EIM module. I can hear relays clicking on the three working trim button and nothing on the one direction (port down in my case) that is not working.


There are only 4 wires running from helm controls, Sea Ray switches, notBennett. Not even sure how to go about troubleshooting these.


At least I have narrowed down the issue NOT to be the pump and off to do more electronics troubleshooting. If anyone has ideas, I will take them. Otherwise, time to call the electronics guy I have do other work..... More money!!!!


Tom - Thanks for quick response and your product is performing as designed, would have been nice if Sea Ray had not complicated things. 5 wires from Helm to pump would have been much easier to troubleshoot!
 
Jason

Actually there are really only 4 wires running from the pump to the switch. They are Blue (pump forward, Tabs down), Yellow (pump reverse, Tabs up), Red (port solenoid valve) and Green (starboard solenoid valve). Power is delivered to the switch from a separate wire. Normally the switch should be two double throw double pole rockers.

Perhaps if you can post some photos of the wire connections from the pump to the SeaRay units and to the switch I can help.

If you can determine what wires SeaRay connected these to before they enter their unit and or the switch you may be able to isolate the problem.

Also I think you can go ahead and launch your boat since the issue can be fixed while the boat is in the water.

Tom
Bennett Marine
 
Would also like to see a photo and if it requires our interpretation, I will find and forward prints and drawings to show our wiring application.

Keep us posted.

Rusty
 
rusty higgins said:
Would also like to see a photo and if it requires our interpretation, I will find and forward prints and drawings to show our wiring application.

Keep us posted.

Rusty
Click to expand...

I will be at boat tomorrow and will take pictures. Wiring colors are not standard Bennett as did not see any blue wire at all.

Spoke to Sea Ray mechanic today who said it is almost impossible to troubleshoot without a new switch assembly. The switches are for trim, hatch, motor starting, emerg crossover, few lights, etc.

I appreciate the feedback from you and Tom and will keep everyone posted. It is always something, isn't it!!??!! :smt021
 
Took some pictures today....

First picture is of the helm controls, tab controls are integrated into the a molded switch panel.




Picture of the back of the switches. Top gray plug seems to driver tabs, when I unplug it, tabs no longer operate.


Color coding is Black, Red, Green and Orange.


When I disconnect wiring plug from tab pump (4 wire plug right at the pump) and push port Up/Down and Starboard Up, I can hear a relay engaging/clicking in the Aft EIM in the ER (pictured below). When I push Starboard Down button, nothing happens.



I would think issue is either in the switch at the helm or relays. I have not used volt meter to test to see if switches are activating relays in the EIM unit. That is planned next step with myself and and marine eletronics tech.

If anyone has ideas before I spend the $$ with the tech, please let me know!!!! THANK YOU!
 
I suspect that the the switch is at fault. In theory there should be only one relay for the starboard side. (keep in mind that the starboard buttons operate the port Trim Tab).

To make a Trim Tab move down you need to energize the wire to the pump to run forward and the wire to the valve on the side you wish to move. Since the wire to the valve is the same no matter if you are going up or down, I believe there would be only one relay for the port and one for the starboard. There would also be a relay for pump motor down and another for pump motor up.

If you use a meter you should see that when you push a button it should energize two wires at a time (one for the valve and one for the pump). If you push starboard down and you get only one wire energized that would confirm it's the switch at fault.

Tom
Bennett Marine
 
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Tabman said:
I suspect that the the switch is at fault. In theory there should be only one relay for the starboard side. (keep in mind that the starboard buttons operate the port Trim Tab).

To make a Trim Tab move down you need to energize the wire to the pump to run forward and the wire to the valve on the side you wish to move. Since the wire to the valve is the same no matter if you are going up or down, I believe there would be only one relay for the port and one for the starboard. There would also be a relay for pump motor down and another for pump motor up.

If you use a meter you should see that when you push a button it should energize two wires at a time (one for the valve and one for the pump). If you push starboard down and you get only one wire energized that would confirm it's the switch at fault.

Tom
Bennett Marine
Click to expand...

Thanks for guidance Tom. We will check it out with a meter and see what we find. Will post findings.

I am sure the replacement switch console from Sea Ray will be a $20 item...... (I have to laugh or I will cry!!!!).

Thanks again.
 
All,

My electronics guy and I did some troubleshooting with volt meter and not sure we understand anymore other than we agree it is probably helm switches. Below is copy of wiring diagram that shows 12V, neg, and TX/RX + and -. The + and - measure out at 5V so it looks like 12V power is stepped down and some type of inverted of +/- combo drives the four combinations of port/starboard and up/down.



We have calls into SeaRay to understand it better but would love some opinions from you all.

Switch pad is $370 and if it is not the culprit then I own it. So, trying to be sure before ordering.

As a funny aside, we are in the water and new boat showed up next to me.... Exact same year and model!!! I had to really resist asking owner if I could pull his dash apart and borrow the switchpad for few minutes. He had owned the boat for all of a week and was not terribly comfortable yet!! LOL!
 
I think your wiring diagram for the Trim Tabs may be a bit off.

The 4 wires operate the pump motor and the valves for the hydraulic power unit.

For example when you push the upper right hand button it should lower the port Trim Tab. To do that it energizes the pump forward (Bennett Blue Wire) and the port valve (Bennett Red Wire). If you push the lower right hand button it should raise the port Trim Tab. To do that it will energize the pump reverse (Bennett Yellow Wire) and the port valve (Bennett Red Wire).

If you push the upper left hand button it should lower the starboard Trim Tab. To do that it energizes the pump forward (Bennett Blue Wire) and the starboard valve (Bennett Green Wire). If you push the the lower left hand button it should raise the starboard Trim Tab. To do that it will energize the pump reverse (Bennett Yellow Wire) and the starboard valve (Bennett Green Wire).

If you can correlate which wires are energized when each button is pushed you might be able to jump the wire harness with the 5v and see if you can get the system to work properly.

Note that if you inadvertently energize pump forward (Bennett Blue Wire) and pump reverse (Bennett Yellow Wire) you will likely trip the breaker.

Tom
Bennett Marine
 
Nothing putting a computer in a wet ,salty boat. So much for modern day improvements.
If there Bennett`s can a Bennet factory wiring harness be used and go back to the old way of an actual hard wired switch.
 
Bt Doctur said:
Nothing putting a computer in a wet ,salty boat. So much for modern day improvements.
If there Bennett`s can a Bennet factory wiring harness be used and go back to the old way of an actual hard wired switch.
Click to expand...

Agreed! I heavily considered just running 5 wires to the helm and installing Bennett switch but did not want different switches at the helm than come stock from factory.

I have new switch pad (to the tune of $400 clams) on it's way and we should know shortly if that is fix!!!
 
for $400 bucks i would have found a place for the switches!
noticed it also does the eng hatch. Have you installed and eng lift wire bypass?
 
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