Official Cummins 6cta 450C thread

January 10, 2017 at 8:57 pm#14364
In reply to: Advice on Coolant for 6CTA 450 Mechanical

Tony Athens

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Vessel Name: Local Banks
Engines: QSL9 405
Location: Oxnard, CA
Country: USA
Join Date: Nov 2015
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JBB,

What I say here is based on real field experience (not the “book”) with this engine since it released in the mid to late 80’s………..

The 6CTA 8.3 base engine has a modern mid-stop liner design, and obviously, is also made from superior quality materials, plus has a coolant flow design that when all put together, seems to make this engine very tolerant of something less then a “school book” coolant make up..

So I say this————Use any brand name 50-50 EG coolant, use a WF2073 or WF 2074 filter when you change, and then change the coolant every 3000-4000 hours or 5-7 yrs, which ever come first.. Go fishing and don’t worry about the rest..

Tony

Tony Athens
Seaboard Founder
I had read that. 2073 and 2074 have a lot of additive in them. I am assuming Tony recommends to start with those if you put in coolant with no additive in them. If you fill with pre-charged coolant such as the Fleetguard ES Compleat, Peak Fleet Charge or Prestone Command, then use a blank filter WF2077. Then test the coolant a year later to see what filter to change to.
 
Quick question on fuel filters. As I understand it, fhese engines run a two stage filtration, first a 30u Racor, then a 20u FF5285. Would there be any negative to using a 10u “on engine” filter for additional cleaning (instead of the FF5285)? Is it likely to clog quickly and restrict fuel flow? Could a larger capacity 10u be added to account for any restricting? I’ve read Tony’s comments on multi stage filtration on sbmar, and his view is more filtering is better. But I do see the possible downside of restricting flow if you don’t do a 3 stage filtration as he recommends. Thoughts?
 
scooper321...we have different boats, but I have the 6CTA's ....

I use http://spsdiesel-com.3dcartstores.com/ParkerRacor-30-Micron-Fuel-Filter-Element-2040PM-OR_p_613.html on the Racors (water separators) and the https://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/ryder/af/ryder/core/search/search.do?keyword=ff5285 on the engines.

I also follow Frank's diesel fuel management program.

Jaybeaux

Thanks! But no, don't use my signature as the boat I'm asking about. That's the "outgoing" boat. Know anyone looking for 320? LOL The "incoming" boat is a 6CTA-powered 400DB. Confusing, I know. Just waiting on a couple of degrees of sustained warmer weather so I can get the survey and trial done on the 400. In the meantime, I'm reading and re-reading everything I can find here, on sbmar and boatdiesel about these engines and this boat. Lots to digest. Frank's diesel regimen doesn't make it any easier! But I will likely follow the same regimen. BTW, is the Racor as hard to clean/service as Mr. Athens makes it out to be?
 
Mine are a tad hard to get to. I follow Frank Webster's Diesel Fuel Management program, and I haven't had a need to do anything to my Racors (yet).
 
Thanks! But no, don't use my signature as the boat I'm asking about. That's the "outgoing" boat. Know anyone looking for 320? LOL The "incoming" boat is a 6CTA-powered 400DB. Confusing, I know. Just waiting on a couple of degrees of sustained warmer weather so I can get the survey and trial done on the 400. In the meantime, I'm reading and re-reading everything I can find here, on sbmar and boatdiesel about these engines and this boat. Lots to digest. Frank's diesel regimen doesn't make it any easier! But I will likely follow the same regimen. BTW, is the Racor as hard to clean/service as Mr. Athens makes it out to be?
I don't think so. If you are just replacing the filter, turn the valve to OFF, remove the lid and swap the filters. Put in the new gaskets that come with the filter, and that's it. If you have some gunk to clean out, I take off the big nut on the drain plug and drain the fuel. Then I work out any gunk stuck to the inside with something skinny and long. Or just suck it out with a small shop vac. To refill after putting in new filter and reinstalling plug, just turn the valve on with the lid off and gravity will fill it from the tanks. Turn it off when fuel gets to top and then put top on. For the generator, on/off valve is on the top of the starboard fuel tank on the 400DB
 
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This morning I helped a friend move his 2002 400DB with 6CTAs to a boat yard for bottom paint haul out. After we tied up and shut down we noticed a burning smell. Opened the hatch and there was visible smoke. It was the port grid heater melting the wiring insulation. We then spent the next few hours removing them for good.
 

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I posted a while ago about those things. IMHO, you’re better off with out them.
 
I have been considering removing the heater as well. Other than that harness what else is involved?
 
I have been considering removing the heater as well. Other than that harness what else is involved?
I just wrote this up and sent it to a friend. So here you go:

Remove three bolted on small wires on the heater (two power, one ground). Unplug air temp sensor on heater (I also took the sensor out and replaced it with a plug - optional). Remove small red power cable at starter (long cable that comes from grid heater on other side of engine). Remove two bolts below the aftercooler bracket, holding on the bracket containing all the grid heater electronics (those bolts may also hold on some unrelated ground wires and/or the check valve from the airsep - just bolt them back on where they were after you remove the grid heater bracket). Unplug the three sensor connectors coming out of heater wiring harness (they will be behind the aftercooler). Then pull it all out. It's all one big system all coupled together.
 
They cycle on and off when the motors are cold and when they are running under 1400 rpm. If you live in northern climates and run your boat when it’s cold out or early spring when the water temps are 40’s-50’s, the grid heaters can help, but I personally don’t think they are worth the risk. While doing my diligence during the buying process, I found out that Cummins replaced the starboard grid heater and the alternator that it smoked when it malfunctioned at 25 hrs of the po’s ownership. He was the original owner so warrranty took care of it. When we were looping that starboard grid heater malfunctioned again, fortunately it did not wreck the alternator that time. I rendered it inoperative and finished our loop. After a lot of miles I decided that the port motor with the heater wasn’t behaving any different than the starboard without it and disconnected that one and removed both from the engines.
I installed wolverine pan heaters to help with warm up on those cold early spring Buffalo mornings and like them. 150 or so degree engine oil 24/7. And the engine room is never damp. We used to install them on our construction equipment that had Deutz air cooled diesels. (No cooling system for conventional block heaters). Those motors would fire at the touch of the key on the coldest winter mornings. I think anyone living north of The Carolinas would benefit from them.
 
Choice of size is based on oil pan capacity and physical size of the motors. The entire motor gets warmed so the more pounds of iron in the block the bigger the heater. I put on 250 watt pads on the boat engines which seems to work fine. Wired in a separate circuit for them with a breaker switch at the panel.
 
I currently have a "half working" grid heater on my star motor per my survey in Dec. wondering if its worth repairing or removing as noted above. My battery voltage meter at the helm fluctuates between 12-14 volts every few seconds. I assume this is due to the fault grid heater.
 
Irie308....the fluctuation in the voltage meter is due to the grid heater actually cycling on and off. They are supposed to do that until the engine gets up to temp. In this thread, and perhaps others, there was discussion on grid heaters. Start at post #327.

Jaybeaux
 
I currently have a "half working" grid heater on my star motor per my survey in Dec. wondering if its worth repairing or removing as noted above. My battery voltage meter at the helm fluctuates between 12-14 volts every few seconds. I assume this is due to the fault grid heater.
Dean, time it. As mentioned, it is supposed to toggle on and off (10-20 second cycle below 1200 rpm). Many have removed due to problems, and an unnecessary load on the alternator. Cold cold mornings *may* slighly smoke a more during warmup. Btw, this is a great thread for all that is 6cta. Start from the begining!
 
Irie308....the fluctuation in the voltage meter is due to the grid heater actually cycling on and off. They are supposed to do that until the engine gets up to temp. In this thread, and perhaps others, there was discussion on grid heaters. Start at post #327.

Jaybeaux
Good to know. Thanks!
 
Dean, time it. As mentioned, it is supposed to toggle on and off (10-20 second cycle below 1200 rpm). Many have removed due to problems, and an unnecessary load on the alternator. Cold cold mornings *may* slighly smoke a more during warmup. Btw, this is a great thread for all that is 6cta. Start from the begining!
Thanks Paul, skimmed through when we were looking but definitely need to go through and reread.
 

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