Official Caterpillar3116/3126 Thread

I've been reading so much here about these priming pump issues, may just have to advance my schedule and get those Tee fittings, ball valves and electric fuel pumps installed.

Typically, an electric fuel pump will push better than it will pull.

I'd mount them in-line, between the tank and the Raycor so they can push fuel through the entire system. The valves would eliminate any possible restriction they may cause.

This way I can install the Raycors and the CAT fuel filters DRY.

No muss, no fuss, no messy filling of the bowls. . . .

This is the one I installed on the 10 Meter:

Amazon.com: Carter In-Line Automotive Replacement Universal Electric Fuel Pump (P4259) : Automotive

Well that price more than doubled since I last bought that item.

Here's one that comes with a pre-filter for a whole lot less:

Amazon.com: E8012S Universal Electric Fuel Pump Low Pressure 5-9 PSI 12V w/Installation Kit : Automotive

BEST !

RWS

i can’t think of any reason his wouldn’t work, and I understand what you’re after, but I’d consider posting this to a place like boatdiesel to get their opinion. The fuel system is critical and CAT engineers the shit out of everything, you’d hate to introduce any unnecessary issues
 
The plan would be:

  • find a place in the fuel line between the fuel tank and the Raycor.
  • splice in 2 TEE fittings
  • add in the pump and two ball valves
  • one ball valve allows fuel to go to the electric pump (prefilter), and is normally closed.
  • the other prevents backflow to the tank, and is normally open.
  • When the valves are in the NORMAL position, there is no change in the fuel system. PERIOD.

The prefilter is only there to protect the electric pump from debris

you need not bother with permanent wiring. A quick disconnect attached to a wire pair with alligator clips would be fine as this will be an infrequent use. Just attach to the starter positive & a ground

I believe with this arrangement we're not really altering the fuel system at all.

BEST !

RWS
 
I'm all for convenience, but seems to add complexity and additional failure points for a basic system that is normally touched once a year, and once you get a system down, takes an hour for both mains.

The biggest issue is the leaky pumps , but quick and inexpensive to replace, unless your valve is leaking which is a bigger job.

Or you can use Frank's no pump method.
 
I may have missed it in an earlier comment; did you replace the entire pump, or just the cylinder?
Just the cylinder. It was pretty straight-forward, just don't lose the spring and ball when taking the old one off. I'm still looking for a schematic on how the ball engages with the spring, I assume the way I had it was correct.
 
Just the cylinder. It was pretty straight-forward, just don't lose the spring and ball when taking the old one off. I'm still looking for a schematic on how the ball engages with the spring, I assume the way I had it was correct.
Large end into pump, small end on the ball is correct.

If purchasing the pump a spare ball and spring are cheap insurance in case things go flying (and being a boat, my guess is they probably will).
 
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Large end into pump, small end on the ball is correct.
Cool, thanks, that's how I installed it. Must be other issues, but given Franks' advice, I'll be pre-filling the filters from now on. Those pumps have never/rarely worked for me.
 
Cool, thanks, that's how I installed it. Must be other issues, but given Franks' advice, I'll be pre-filling the filters from now on. Those pumps have never/rarely worked for me.
The new ones made a big difference for me, but it is a lot if pumping. But for once a year, good enough.
 
+1 on my Cummins as well...prefilling with good clean fuel is just too easy...done it numerous times and no issues.

Bennett
I know what the Caterpillar manual recommends. I am a huge Cat fan and find their equipment to be supremely well designed. However for the first 3 years I owned my 3116 engines, I spent more time messing with, replacing priming pumps that didn't work and cleaning up the mess they made than following Cats recommendations was worth. For the next 22 years, I manually filled the Racor and the Cat spin on filter with clean filtered fuel and never had a single problem but more importantly, no more spilled fuel in the bilge, and not once did I get air in the fuel system.

For those of you who have not yet enjoyed the 2-3 hours of "fun" it saddles you with, purging the air out of a Caterpillar unit injection system (3116/3126) is usually a royal PITA that I haven't found a way to short cut.
 
I know what the Caterpillar manual recommends. I am a huge Cat fan and find their equipment to be supremely well designed. However for the first 3 years I owned my 3116 engines, I spent more time messing with, replacing priming pumps that didn't work and cleaning up the mess they made than following Cats recommendations was worth. For the next 22 years, I manually filled the Racor and the Cat spin on filter with clean filtered fuel and never had a single problem but more importantly, no more spilled fuel in the bilge, and not once did I get air in the fuel system.

For those of you who have not yet enjoyed the 2-3 hours of "fun" it saddles you with, purging the air out of a Caterpillar unit injection system (3116/3126) is usually a royal PITA that I haven't found a way to short cut.
And, if you are stuck on not pre-filling the filters for some reason and don't want to spend a day pumping on that primer - you can advance the throttle to full and crank the engine; it will fill the final filter pretty fast as the throttle sets the pump cam and rack to full flow. It will cough and sputter but start pretty fast. But you always want to start with full racors - pre-fill those.
 
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A discussion got started on Facebook that has made me curious…these are obviously not wet sleeved engines but one of the guys responding said all Diesel engines are sleeved.

is that true of the 3100? Are they all pressed in dry sleeves? He said cast iron can’t stand up to the compression of Diesel engines

If that’s the case, the whole idea that the 3100 block is throwaway seems incorrect. Even though they’re not wet sleeved, couldn’t a new dry sleeve be pressed in for a rebuild?
That is my understanding, not sleeved if you destroy a cylinder you replace the block. That said I have rebuilt a Porsche V8 that was supposedly unrepairable, an awesome shop relined the cylinders with a chrome like Nikosil coating (like a motorcycle) to the stock bore and provided rings appropriate for the new coating and kept the stock $500ea pistons). So with millions of these 3100 series in circulation I am certain someone out there has a way to do a repair.
 
There is a difference between "liners" and "sleeves". Generally an engine with liners has replaceable liners that a mechanic can replace during a rebuild. A diesel rebuild kit usually comes with new liners, new pistons, new rings and new bearings.

The 3100 series Caterpillars do not use liners, but they can be bored and sleeved when a cylinder is scored or damaged beyond just installing new liners, pistons and rings. When sleeving an engine the block must be bored in a milling machine then new pistons installed to match the new bore diameter.

With respect to Facebook…….consider the source before you believe what you read. I guess it is pretty much like CSR……if you have been on this site a while, you pretty much know who to believe on what subject. I handle that with the "IGNORE" button!
 
There is a difference between "liners" and "sleeves". Generally an engine with liners has replaceable liners that a mechanic can replace during a rebuild. A diesel rebuild kit usually comes with new liners, new pistons, new rings and new bearings.

The 3100 series Caterpillars do not use liners, but they can be bored and sleeved when a cylinder is scored or damaged beyond just installing new liners, pistons and rings. When sleeving an engine the block must be bored in a milling machine then new pistons installed to match the new bore diameter.

With respect to Facebook…….consider the source before you believe what you read. I guess it is pretty much like CSR……if you have been on this site a while, you pretty much know who to believe on what subject. I handle that with the "IGNORE" button!

Thanks Frank, that's what I thought and what the caterpillar parts diagrams seem to show as well

and you're not kidding on Facebook, I quietly removed myself from the discussion...
 
I know what the Caterpillar manual recommends. I am a huge Cat fan and find their equipment to be supremely well designed. However for the first 3 years I owned my 3116 engines, I spent more time messing with, replacing priming pumps that didn't work and cleaning up the mess they made than following Cats recommendations was worth. For the next 22 years, I manually filled the Racor and the Cat spin on filter with clean filtered fuel and never had a single problem but more importantly, no more spilled fuel in the bilge, and not once did I get air in the fuel system.

For those of you who have not yet enjoyed the 2-3 hours of "fun" it saddles you with, purging the air out of a Caterpillar unit injection system (3116/3126) is usually a royal PITA that I haven't found a way to short cut.

I've never gotten to the point of needing to purge air from my engines beyond what it takes to swap out filters, but for future reference, is there a written procedure somewhere? I'd at least like to know where something like that exists if the time ever comes.
 
David,

I've never seen a written procedure other than in owner's manuals for changing filters. I learned at the school of hard knocks….and by listening to my wife complain about work clothes reeking of diesel fuel.

But here is a primer for 3116/3126 Cats:

1. Start purging at the fuel tank and work toward the engine
2. Manually fill the Racor to overflowing….Racors will not self prime unless the Racor bowl is below inlet is below the fuel level in the tank.
3. Use the priming pump and the bleed screw or manually fill the Caterpillar spin on filter to over flowing then reinstall it.
4. Reinstall the bleed screw.
5. Advance the throttle about 1/2 way and try to crank the engine. If it fires, gradually retard the throttle slowly until it will idle on its own……don't let the engine over rev.
5. Be careful cranking long periods of time because you can over heat and damage starter motors. If the engine doesn't fire after about 15 seconds of cranking, go back to step 3 and repeat.
6. If the fuel gallery in the head is empty, you may have to "repeat step 3…4…& 5" several times. (this is where the "Royal PITA enters the purging process!).

7. Don't try to crank a Cat engine until you are sure the secondary filter is full of fuel. If you push air thru the Cat filter, the fuel gallery will get filled with air quickly, air is compressible and once you begin compressing air behind the injectors, it seems to multiply.
8. You can purge the Cat filter and fuel gallery by trying to start the engine but that is not a good practice because it puts a horrible amount of wear on the starter motor and flywheel ring gear. Learning to prime the filters is far better than having to write a $450 check for a new stater.


Frank
 
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I have been reading the fuel priming comments with great interest since replacing the fuel filters is something I plan to do myself.

I feel like I am missing something. If all we need to do is fill up both the racor and engine mounted filters before we reinstall them, why don't folks do that? It seems/easy straight forward to me, but, and a big but, I have never done this job before so who am I to say.

And I read "fill up with clean fuel". I assume there is nothing extra I need to do to the dockside fuel I pump into a small container to do this with?
 
Because some install the filters dry. Some install the filters partially filled. Some don't advance the throttles.

Sometimes even when you do everything 100%, shit still happens... ie the batteries are low and cranking is slower than normal and it doesn't want to start. It does happen. Just try to eliminate as many of the variables as you can and crank it over. Once the engines are running, I try to hold a high idle for 20-30 seconds.

Last winter I was doing the maintenance on my previous RV and I didn't prefill the filters. I never did because I installed a manual primer on the engine (slightly different approach than the boat - basically the same engine C7 vs. 3126). In the past I always kept pumping the primer until I heard fuel flowing back to the tank. It was about 40 degrees in the shop. I went to start it and it lit right off. I let off the accelerator before my usual 30 seconds and the engine stalled. I cranked and cranked and it wouldn't light off again. I went back and primed it again and finally got it running. My point is, sometimes things happen even when you follow the correct approach.
 
Yes, you are missing something.

The reason Caterpillar says to only use the priming pump to fill the secondaty filter is because they only recommend using filtered fuel. If you pass the fuel thru a Cat high efficiency filter the fuel is filtered to about 5 microns. If you use typical unfiltered fuel to prime the engines then God only knows what size debris you are pouring into your engines. In my case, our marina only sells Valvetech treated and filtered fuel. The filters are 2 micron filters and there is a date on the side telling you (if you want to check it) when the filter was last changed or serviced.

My advice is to only manually prime your diesels with diesel fuel you get from a pump with a dated filter mounted on the pump.
 

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