Official (1998-2002) 310 Sundancer Thread

[bobeast]

I've never had to mess with my portholes so wouldn't be much help there. I'm wondering if you could go in from the cabinet door above the toilet. have you explored that option?

 

[Motorvader]

Thanks Bob - by the way, my first name is Bob as well. It's not a matter of if it will leak, it's a matter of when. It's difficult to understand what the SR design engineers were thinking when they made this decision.

I've also considered just removing the portlight and glassing it over. Below is my crude photo shop effort to visualize what it would look like. Would look better with the pin striping added.

 

[bobeast]

If it were me I'd entertain only solutions that allowed me to retain that porthole. That said, I'm in a covered slip, so water ingress is probably less of a possibility for me. I do like to open that porthole from time to time, if for no other reason, than to share the "richness" of my day with neighbors. Glassing over it feels like a leg amputation to fix a stubbed toe.

 

[Motorvader]

If it were me I'd entertain only solutions that allowed me to retain that porthole. That said, I'm in a covered slip, so water ingress is probably less of a possibility for me. I do like to open that porthole from time to time, if for no other reason, than to share the "richness" of my day with neighbors. Glassing over it feels like a leg amputation to fix a stubbed toe.

Bob, I agree - it just doesn't look right with one portlight on one side. That said, I also don't really want an ugly, non-colored matched 6" deck plate in the beautiful fiberglass head module. I'm leaning toward glassing it over and creating a "faux" portlight by bonding the outer stainless portlight frame and an elliptical piece of smoked acrylic to the hull side with epoxy. Eliminates any chance of leaks and maintains the aesthetics of the exterior and head. There's too little clearance between the side of the deck and the fiberglass head module/liner. Below is a photo I took with a borescope fed through the ceiling light in the head. To the right is the plastic "tunnel" between the portlight inside the head and the inner surface of the deck's vertical side. To the left is the concealed portlight that few owners seem to be aware of. Its a portlight to no where!

 

[Motorvader]

There's no room for the concealed/hidden portlight to open more than an inch even if you could access it from inside the boat. Strangest thing I've ever seem on a boat!

 

[Motorvader]

Just had 2 new transducers installed today - an Airmar B-164 and Simrad Forward Scan. They had to tilt the boat on the rack to gain access to the work area between the rack bunks under the hull. Strangest thing I've ever seem in a boat yard. Also the most stressful thing I ever witnessed on one of our boats. They did an amazing job and were extremely precise and gentle with every move.

 

[Motorvader]

Fuel transfer valve system is going in next week (located to the left of battery switches in locker under cockpit wet bar). A 10' section of rub rail that was badly damaged by PO is also being replaced along with the installation of an N2K fuel flow sensor for the generator. This will conclude a 7 month refit. Once this is wrapped up we're getting the boat detailed inside and out and I'm doing a complete electronics refit. myself (I'm an electrical engineer). Also planning interior upgrades which will include new planked "faux" teak flooring and new mattress for forward berth.

We're planning to do 200 mile trips to the FL keys each year and wanted get all deferred maintenance items from the PO caught up so we can enjoy the boat without too many break downs. Also wanted to make an old boat look somewhat new again. Will share more photos as things come together.

 

[bobeast]

There's no room for the concealed/hidden portlight to open more than an inch even if you could access it from inside the boat. Strangest thing I've ever seem on a boat!

I thought the concealed port light was behind the cabinet in the galley. Now you have me curious. I'll have to check that out next time I'm at the boat.

 

[bobeast]

Fuel transfer valve system is going in next week (located to the left of battery switches in locker under cockpit wet bar). A 10' section of rub rail that was badly damaged by PO is also being replaced along with the installation of an N2K fuel flow sensor for the generator. This will conclude a 7 month refit. Once this is wrapped up we're getting the boat detailed inside and out and I'm doing a complete electronics refit. myself (I'm an electrical engineer). Also planning interior upgrades which will include new planked "faux" teak flooring and new mattress for forward berth.

We're planning to do 200 mile trips to the FL keys each year and wanted get all deferred maintenance items from the PO caught up so we can enjoy the boat without too many break downs. Also wanted to make an old boat look somewhat new again. Will share more photos as things come together.

Here's some food for thought on your electronics refit;

I have since replaced the tachs with digital units, and the Maretron display with a Garmin. Next up is to replace that fugly chain-counter display with a glass helm version.

 

[Motorvader]

I thought the concealed port light was behind the cabinet in the galley. Now you have me curious. I'll have to check that out next time I'm at the boat.

You won't believe it when you see. The GM at our marine is former Marinemax service manager who has seen it all but not this one. It's hard to believe it was done for any other reason than exterior aesthetics and symmetry. The portlight holes were likely cut after the deck came out of the mold - holes are not typically molded in. The older 330 Sundancers were essentially the same boat and had two portlights on both sides, farther apart, with one in the head and one over the galley on the port side.

 

[Motorvader]

Your helm looks great. I plan to do this in phases so we can enjoy the boat and not have things torn apart for a few more months - already waited to long to get back on the water. Phase I is new electronics to support our cruising needs. Phase 2 will be gauges and switches. Phase 3 will be autopilot and anything else that falls into the "would be nice" category. My personal preference is to replace the analog gauges with new analog gauges and a new plastic burl back panel from FP marine. I really like the look of chrome bezel gauges from my motor head days. I'll share photos as things progress. Phase 1 includes: SIMRAD NSSevo3 12", SIMRAD NSSevo2 7", SIMRAD HALO 20+ radar, ICOM M424G VHF w/GPS, ICOM CommandMic IV, Airmar B-164 transducer, SIMRAD ForwardScan transducer, FOX Marine N2K engine gateways (MEFI-3), SIMRAD GPS ANTENNA GS-25,
SIMRAD NEP-2 network expansion port, ACR AISLink CB2 Class B AIS transceiver, Glomex DVB-T2 TV Full HD 14" marine omnidirectional antenna w/automatic gain control, SIMRAD WM-4 Sirius XM marine satellite weather/audio receiver, Digital Antenna 578-SW 4' AIS antenna with 8' extension, Digital Antenna 529-VW-S 8' VHF antenna with 4' extension and SIMRAD electronic fuel flow Sensor for the Westerbeke 4.5 KW generator. Looking forward to seeing it all working together and I'm hoping the fuel injector consumption data from the FOX gateways is sufficient for my fuel management needs. Worst case I'll need to install 2 more fuel flow sensors. Also planning to replace the fuel tank sending units with magnetic N2K units at some point. We will also need to see if we can fit 2 slim bladder fuel tanks under the cockpit seats for trips to the Bahamas and Dry Tortugas (even 30 gallons would be great).

 

[Motorvader]

Bob, do you boat on lakes or SF bay? I've spent some time on SF bay and it has some wicked currents.

 

[bobeast]

Bob, do you boat on lakes or SF bay? I've spent some time on SF bay and it has some wicked currents.

Mostly on the Sacramento River Delta. Occasional jaunts towards the bay. The river currents are relatively tame as compared to the bay.

For my fuel metrics, I don't have the Fox gateways. I use one from Yacht Devices. That said, the fuel consumption data supplied by the engines are quite usable. Before going that route I had tried a couple of Garmin flow sensors, but they actually caused my fuel pressure to fluctuate, so I got rid of them.

For my tanks I use Maretron ultrasonic tank sensors which put the data directly on the 2000 bus. They're nice because there is nothing mechanical that can wear out or become stuck. They won't work with analog gages however. Gobius does make an ultrasonic sensor that can both put the data on the bus AND work with analog gages

 

[Motorvader]

I was also looking at KUS here in FL. They have N2K gauges and magnetic reed switch senders. Not as reliable as your ultrasonic senders though. I will check out Gobius. May I ask the make and model of the small chart plotter bottom left (to look up its dimensions)? This looks similar in size to my NSSevo2 7" and hoping it can fit in the same location below my NSSevo3 12". This would free up the area under the switch panel for future electronics goodies!

 

[Motorvader]

I was also looking at KUS here in FL. They have N2K gauges and magnetic reed switch senders. Not as reliable as your ultrasonic senders though. I will check out Gobius. May I ask the make and model of the small chart plotter bottom left (to look up its dimensions)? This looks similar in size to my NSSevo2 7" and hoping it can fit in the same location below my NSSevo3 12". This would free up the area under the switch panel for future electronics goodies!

By the way Bob, the information about the Garmin fuel flow sensors is very helpful - thank you. I was initially thinking of going with SIMRAD N2K fuel sensors for both main engines but ultimately decided to first see how well the fuel consumption data off the ECM serves my needs. I've read articles that indicated Floscan is the "gold standard" of fuel flow measurement accuracy but after reading lots of posts I suspect that for most boaters the difference in accuracy between ECM fuel injector consumption and Floscan sensors is not big enough to justify the extra cost (a 2-3 gallons on a 100 gallon tank?) . I would rather keep a 1/3 reserve in my tank for all distance cruising, adding bladders if needed to extend range, than to trust the accuracy of any fuel flow measurement system enough to go below this reserve level. Mother nature has a way of increasing fuel consumption on long trips and in my opinion there's really no safe substitute for reserve fuel capacity.

 

[bobeast]

The small plotter to the lower left is a Garmin GPSMAP 7408. I use it mainly for my sonar, stereo control, and NMEA switching. I use the 12" screen for Plotter and Radar display. For Gobius, you'd be looking at the Gobius-C with the optional metal tank adapter. The factory senders in your tanks are of the swing-arm variety, which means there is no need to move the Port tank, as its possible to remove ithe sender within the space between the tank and the sole. I agonized over that for quite a bit before I just dug in to deal with it.

I hear you with respect to reserve capacity. I was even more nervous when I had to rely on the notoriously inaccurate Sea Ray Gage/Sender setup. With the ultrasonic sender and NMEA gage, the port gage read 25% and it took exactly 74 gallons to fill it up. The Starboard side was just as accurate, but I don't remember the exact numbers.

Even so, I start getting nervous under 30 gallons per tank.

One thing about ultrasonics, though is if you are up on plane, they won't be quite as accurate because the fuel under the sender is not as level. Still a far cry from the original setup. They do have focus tubes, but to install those, you do have to move the tanks for a straight shot down into the sender hole. (either that or cut holes in your deck)

 

[Motorvader]

Bob, Thanks for sharing the model of your small chart plotter. Yours is about 1/4" tall than mine so I should have plenty of room to mount my NSS7 evo2 in the same location. I plan to use them the same way - nav. chart, radar and Sirius weather overlays take priority over everything else and will be displayed on the 12" chart plotter. This arrangement will also allow be to use the FP Marine Large Dash Panel to cover the holes left by the original Raytheon instruments.

Did you attempt remove the port fuel sender? I was hoping I might be able to angle it out once the mounting screws are out. I prefer the magnetic reed switch senders because they're stable under way and were extremely accurate in my previous 30' Cruisers boat. They were within a gallon as well (I ordered the optional high resolution reed switch PCB). I appreciate the full picture on the ultrasonic sensors.

Cutting it too close on fuel in the bad weather and sea state (that weren't in the forecast earlier in the day!) is at best a dangerous situation to find yourself in.

 

[Motorvader]

Here's where I'm starting from (listing photos). All Raytheon equipment will be removed.

 

[Motorvader]

Marina is completing their work over next 2 weeks and assuming Nov. 11 sea trial goes well I can begin getting her cleaned up and start my electronics refit.

 

[Motorvader]

Here's some food for thought on your electronics refit;

View attachment 135687

I have since replaced the tachs with digital units, and the Maretron display with a Garmin. Next up is to replace that fugly chain-counter display with a glass helm version.

Bob, May I ask who you purchased those beautiful switches from?