Official (1982-1988) 270DA Thread

[Ducnut]

I agree the hard part would already be done. I've never worked with the fiberglass process so I would think, with this being the back bone of a boat, I would want a pro who knows all the the tips and tricks to be doing it. Than I can have the motors / outdrives gone through and mounted by a pro, than I'll take it from there with the batteries, wiring, hot water, controls......
You did the job better than most anyone and it looks AMAZING, I just don't know if I could pull it all off.

 

[Tritone]

KC, wow what an impressive job. Congratulations. I just got a Manson like you put up. Can you tell me which roller you use for it and if you think it's a good one after using it? Since the anchor is so large, I am thinking I would like to find a way stow it on a roller even though I do not have a windlass. I am not sure how I will do that yet, but it probably starts with a roller that fits.

I also was wondering about the limber holes you did. Why did you find it necessary to bond in some tubing into the holes, esp. the limber holes in the outboard stringer? I have some tubing sealing into my limber holes from the factory, but I wonder why not just epoxy it up really well, or even put some cloth down around it to seal the plywood within? I wonder how much longer the sealant they used will hold up and toyed with the idea of sealing with epoxy.

Again great job, and doing it in the cold, too.​

 

[KC_Sundancer]

KC, wow what an impressive job. Congratulations. I just got a Manson like you put up. Can you tell me which roller you use for it and if you think it's a good one after using it? Since the anchor is so large, I am thinking I would like to find a way stow it on a roller even though I do not have a windlass. I am not sure how I will do that yet, but it probably starts with a roller that fits.

I also was wondering about the limber holes you did. Why did you find it necessary to bond in some tubing into the holes, esp. the limber holes in the outboard stringer? I have some tubing sealing into my limber holes from the factory, but I wonder why not just epoxy it up really well, or even put some cloth down around it to seal the plywood within? I wonder how much longer the sealant they used will hold up and toyed with the idea of sealing with epoxy.

Again great job, and doing it in the cold, too.​

Tritone - I see your from my hometown neck of the woods, New Baltimore, Algonac area for 35 years.

As far as the anchor roller it is a Lewmar Bow Roller (long). Lewmar part#66840009
It can be stowed the same way even without the windlass. You could add a Deck Pipe for the line and chain to go down into your anchor locker.

The tubing I thought would be much easier and more durable than trying to be sure the wood was sealed with epoxy and/or trying to get glass into the holes. I have done it that way in the past and this I liked much better. Cutting the tube and epoxying it in was real simple and very strong. I thought it would also be much stronger for the transom bolt holes providing a solid liner should they ever come loose. :huh:

Hey these boats have made it 25 years before needing the work. Should be good for another 50, at the very least my transom will still be holding tightly to the engines and drives :grin:

Thanks by the way.

 

[Tritone]

I didn't even notice you were in New Baltimore. I'll be in Island Cove this year. If you go to PMB, maybe I'll see you around.

I suppose you got your Manson for the weeds? I am hoping it works in weeds instead of kiting along the bottom like the regular one.

Thanks for the info.
Justin

 

[KC_Sundancer]

I didn't even notice you were in New Baltimore. I'll be in Island Cove this year. If you go to PMB, maybe I'll see you around.

I suppose you got your Manson for the weeds? I am hoping it works in weeds instead of kiting along the bottom like the regular one.

Thanks for the info.
Justin

No longer there - 400 miles North for the last 8 years in Munising.

I chose the Manson because of the big variation in anchoring with rock, sand and hard clay up here on Lake Superior.
A buddy of mine has had one for quite awhile and he has been very pleased with how well, and quickly, it sets.
I've used it for one season now and have been happy, I like having the slot option too for some of the real rocky areas we encounter.

It should work great in some of those heavy weed beds, especially compared to the danforth's I grew up using down there.

Good luck with anchoring - and the water levels down there.

 

[Ducnut]

Kc, While you were rebuilding your transom did you notice if any of the screws you were removing were deterorated from constant contact with water?
I had an old water waterlogged Starcraft 20 or so years ago and a lot of the screws I removed from the floor and bilge area were like this. Some were real bad!
Im just wondering if I can use this method to check for long term moisture in the transom area. This may eliminate the need for a survey and, A, get a rock bottom price. or B, I walk away and either wait for a 270 in my area to become available or drive to MI...

 

[KC_Sundancer]

Kc, While you were rebuilding your transom did you notice if any of the screws you were removing were deterorated from constant contact with water?

The only screws/bolts with obvious damage were the two bottom bolts that hold the outdrive transom assembly together. The area in contact with the transom core was about 50% gone on the port side.
I could also feel the inner layer of fiberglass on the lower center part of the transom easily flex when pushing on it with the handle of a large screwdriver. Same thing around the lower part of the transom assemblies.
You can also sometimes tell by tapping across it with the handle of a screwdriver on the outside. A waterlogged area won't have such a crisp knocking sound.

I'm sure you saw these pics but any dark spider cracks in the wood, dark dripping stains or dark holes where a screw was are good signs of water intrusion.
Also if the bilge has any water in it looking like black tea.

Maybe look into renting a moisture meter. :huh:

These two pictures show obvious signs of water damage:

 

[Getaway]

When I tore into my 268, yeah, the lag bolts that hold the engine mounts to the stringers were corroded to about 2/3 the diameter they were supposed to be.

The swim platform screws that went into the transom were ok, but they were stainless and did not show signs of corrosion. However, the wood they were screwed into was wet gooey mush.

If you want to try and do a "pre-survey", simply push on the inside glass work around the transom, stringers and side supports. You can do this by hand or with a screw driver too. That internal glass work should be rock solid. If it flexes or the screw driver punches through, watch out. You can "tunk" around with a hammer and listen for dead sounds too. Good solid wood has a crisp "tick" and the hammer will bounce back at you, versus damp wet wood that has a muffled "thud".

After I smartened up, I purchased a moisture meter and went around inside the boat and found how far the water had wicked up the boat. I see you can buy one now at Harbor Freight for like $13 which will give you some insight as to how and if water has gotten into the wood.

http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-mini-moisture-meter-67143.html

Check this against a "dry" pine board. For example, a 100 year old barn checks about 8-10% moisture content. Make sure you use this in areas where the glass work is the thinnest like flat areas inside the engine compartment. Also, stay away from metal because metal objects peg out a moisture meter. A boat with that has some water intrusion, but is still ok will check up to 20% and maybe tick up to 25%. More than that, be concerned.

 

[Getaway]

Holy crap KC, looks like we were typing the same thing at the same time...LOL.

Here is the moisture meter I purchased. Well worth the $$.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electrophys...999?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item1e786d5127

Good info here too:
http://www.electrophysics.on.ca/e_index.htm

PS, KC was my inspiration for tackling the rebuild of my 268. After reading his step by step post, I knew it could be accomplished. I also got help from a good experienced local glass guy who taught me the in's and out's.

 

[Ducnut]

Thank you for the great information! I was told today that the owner was unaware that the swim platform bolt was loose. He is having it checked out by a well known marine restoration business in the area, a moisture check will be done by them as well. I'm going to go view the boat tomorrow to check out some more things. Depending on the moisture reading I may just have the shop at the marina do a compression check and general look over. If that's good I think I may give an offer...

 

[1956olds]

Offer pending survey and sea trial right?

 

[Tritone]

Here's a write up on the moisture meter:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/moisture_meter

 

[Ducnut]

Nice write up! Thanks tritone!

Time will tell on a survey. Id like to ask the guy thats coming up to look at the platform and transom to see if he will check out the rest of the boat. I would offer to pay the extra cost.

 

[KC_Sundancer]

Cabin Floor Dry Rot Repair Started
Since I fixed all the top-side water leaks, wood in the flooring has been drying out and crumbling from dry-rot.
Besides the typical sliding window frame leaks, one of the main culprits was hull/deck joint leaks from incorrect sealing of the rub rail by the previous owner.
Toughest part of the start of the project was figuring out where all the screws are holding things together.
I took lots of pictures of where they are so if anyone needs help with a similar project just ask.
This is Day 1 of the tear down so I'm sure more will be uncovered as I dig deeper.

Sorry about the duplicate attached image at the end - hit the wrong button.:smt101

The main leak fix a few years back:

The Fix:

The start of the dry-rot repair and floor upgrades:

 

[Crave1957]

Hey KC,

This sounds so familiar. It seems I have been narrowing down the leaks forever. We had some leaks forward that I think I finally isolated to the anchor locker. The are so many holes in the locker that I found with further investigation. When I removed the pulpit for refinishing the I discovered unused bolt holes that were not filled or covered. Currently, I have everything covered with plastic and this virtually eliminated the leakage. I am rebeding and filling all holes. Also, redid the bow eye, painted v birth and resealed water tank gaskets and such. Going forward I am going to fill and rebed stantions and all screw holes.

Then I arrive at the biggies bowrail and the window frames. I am comfortable properly filling and drilling new holes but, I am nervous about what bow rails and rebeding window frames involves from a time and knowledge standpoint. Currently I have duct tape preventing water from entering window tracks and this has slowed but not eliminated some water from ending up under my galley floor which I had to cut out a portion of. Until I solve all i just installed a hatch on hinges for access.

Any thoughts you have would be appreciated?

Thanks Mike

 

[KC_Sundancer]

I completely removed my window frames. Takes two people - one to hold a wrench or ratchet on the inside. Screws are under the rubber strip on the outside perimeter and it may take some digging through the headliner material to find the nuts on the inside. Once removed I removed the plastic window panels to polish scratches out and then re-bed the window panels with a black Dow Corning Commercial Window Sealant. The window flocking can still be purchased from taylor made but is a bit expensive. When re-installing the assembled frames I used 3M 4200 UV for bedding. Be sure to use two people when placing them from the outside as they are awkward to handle with the sealant on them.
I still need to do the bow rail but see no leak signs right now - another two person job with headliner digging.

 

[Crave1957]

another one.....how do you replace the rivets under the bow rail. Must need a special tool is my guess?

 

[Crave1957]

do you use the 3m 4200 over the dow corning material or are there different pieces?

 

[KC_Sundancer]

Dow material was for bedding the clear plastic window pieces back into the frame.
3M 4200 UV for the frame to the deck.
As far as rivets drilled out old and used a pop-rivet tool for the new. Used a drill the size of the rivet body, not the head you see from outside.
Your do need to be careful drilling though as you can see in the photos some wiring may be on the other side.
You can get the tool and rivets at even your local hardware store.

 

[joalche]

I completely removed my window frames. Takes two people - one to hold a wrench or ratchet on the inside. Screws are under the rubber strip on the outside perimeter and it may take some digging through the headliner material to find the nuts on the inside. Once removed I removed the plastic window panels to polish scratches out and then re-bed the window panels with a black Dow Corning Commercial Window Sealant. The window flocking can still be purchased from taylor made but is a bit expensive. When re-installing the assembled frames I used 3M 4200 UV for bedding. Be sure to use two people when placing them from the outside as they are awkward to handle with the sealant on them.
I still need to do the bow rail but see no leak signs right now - another two person job with headliner digging.

I'm sure I need to rebed by windows as I am still getting some leakage after I caulked around the outside. So here is my question - do you know what parts can be ordered from Taylor Made - or better yet, what the proper parts needed are? I talked to Taylor Made and they weren't much help, as the age of the boat. I talked to Sea Ray, and same thing - no record of the parts needed for an 88. I want to take the windows apart, but am worried I may not be able to find the materials needed to put them back together. I did see the diagrams on Taylor Made's website, but am just not confident on the proper parts I need to complete the task. For example - the rubber that needs to be removed in order to expose the screws holding the frame in place - I see that nowhere on their site to order the replacement. I appreciate any help you can offer.