Newbie refit questions Garmin vs RayMarine and others

STI581

Member
Aug 21, 2019
37
Boat Info
2004 420 DA Hardtop
Engines
Cummins-oil burner
hi guys,

I am just getting ready to close on my deal a 2004 420 DA hardtop and well it has the wonderful antiquated electronics RayMarine open array analog and SeaRay Navigator and RayMarine RL80c, along with the RM ST7001 AP. I’ve been eyeing up the 12” Axiom series touchscreen chart plotter with sonar x2 and the RayMarine open array 4kw 4’ unit. But spending time at WM, made me realize how stout and quick the 8600 series Garmin offers. So let the debate begin, if it hasn’t already been discussed. But I’m starting to lean towards the Garmin package including open array equipment.

Plans for this vessel are open water way cruising in Galveston and gulf.

Let the comments and suggestions begin :)

Thanks
Amir
 
I replaced ALL the original Raymarine gear with new Garmin gear, including the 8616s and the Fantom 4' array. We just came back from 3 weeks cruising the northeast side of Vancouver Island, including some very dense fog, and I'm very happy with the gear.
 
I replaced ALL the original Raymarine gear with new Garmin gear, including the 8616s and the Fantom 4' array. We just came back from 3 weeks cruising the northeast side of Vancouver Island, including some very dense fog, and I'm very happy with the gear.

That’s awesome. I was impressed with the refresh rate and processing speed as well as the crispness and detail of the display. Not to mention the G3 and navionics all in one. It makes it a power house. So I’m leaning towards the Garmin setup. I do see them on a lot of the larger fleet of vessels over RayMarine.

So I don’t see anyone talking about Furano at all. I see them on defense patrol crafts or USCG patrol boats in some cases. Shocked not much of the talk in here no one has open array on their vessel? Any idea why?
 
I have had more experience with Ray Marine than any other. That's what the boats that I bought previously had - it worked.

Always thought if I were to replace, it would be Garmin. This was based on a friends experience and my time running his boat with Garmin.

When we identified this boat as one we wanted to purchase - the previous owner had just upgraded everything (both chart plotters, radar, depth, side scan sonar, both radio's to Garmin. Everything except the autopilot). I thought great - if I was buying the electronics, this is what I would buy.

Side note, I would not base a buy/no buy on a boat based on the brand of electronics. That always can be changed.

After running the boat the first few months, I was not as enamored with Garmin - was very different. Charts look different, etc. I went from buttons on the RM to touch screen on the Garmin.

After a year, I started to love the Garmin.

Then went through a bit of a rough patch this year, the Ray Marine Auto pilot failed. Had to replace, went with Garmin. Took a while to resolve some issues, Garmin had to replace some defective components - lot of frustration getting through that process. Now everything is resolved with the Auto Pilot - back to loving Garmin. Bottom line, I installed new control head, the course computer, and the compass. Course computer and compass both had to replaced due to defects. Garmin replaced them - new units doing excellent.

If I were to buying electronics today - I would buy Garmin.

Points to consider.

I would start with deciding what I prefer for the chart plotter. Some people love Garmin displays, some don't.

I would first pick the chart plotter I wanted. Then match everything else to the same manufacturer.

Theory is every thing works with all components because the standards. My experience - it works, but you don't get all the features available. When I had a Ray Marine Auto Pilot - it worked with Garmin. When I switched to a Garmin AP, a whole new set of features opened up.

When looking at Chart Plotters - there is the button control, touch screen, or hybrid discussion. I was always of the opinion I preferred buttons when in rough waters. We have been through as rough of waters as I think we will ever go through (Abarmarlee sound with the wind out the west). Touch screen was fine.

My preference - Garmin.
 
Football fan,

Thank you very much for the deep dive. I can completely understand where you are coming from. RM, has been playing catch-up for quite sometime, they did very well with the Axiom Charts and screen. However, when I was messing with the radar portion I was not impressed with the very botchy refresh rate on the radar screen. Also the graphics were just not crisp and HD, if you will.

After really seeing the difference and how well Garmin has done with their screens and options, I am veering that direction. Only thing I’m not 100% positive is on their open array radar...what are people’s opinions?.....
 
That’s awesome. I was impressed with the refresh rate and processing speed as well as the crispness and detail of the display. Not to mention the G3 and navionics all in one. It makes it a power house. So I’m leaning towards the Garmin setup. I do see them on a lot of the larger fleet of vessels over RayMarine.

So I don’t see anyone talking about Furano at all. I see them on defense patrol crafts or USCG patrol boats in some cases. Shocked not much of the talk in here no one has open array on their vessel? Any idea why?


Went ALL Furuno last year the new NXT Doppler Radar is impressive to say the least.
Final install was the new Navpilot 300 this year and after dialing it in its been great on the long flotilla trip this month.
The remote has gesture control you point and shoot and the boat follows.
Dual 12” tztouch2 mfd have been great also I do notice that some are faster than others but I went Furuno after seeing a friends install and all the law enforcement boats etc here all run Furuno.
That’s my 02c
 
That’s awesome. I was impressed with the refresh rate and processing speed as well as the crispness and detail of the display. Not to mention the G3 and navionics all in one. It makes it a power house. So I’m leaning towards the Garmin setup. I do see them on a lot of the larger fleet of vessels over RayMarine.

So I don’t see anyone talking about Furano at all. I see them on defense patrol crafts or USCG patrol boats in some cases. Shocked not much of the talk in here no one has open array on their vessel? Any idea why?

My understanding of Furuno is that it is very powerful and has high quality. But expensive and complex. It was explained to me thusly: if you want to make a bazillion adjustments and have total control of your system, look at Furuno or Simrad. If you want power but more set it and go boating, go Garmin. RayMarine was described as a very distant 4th option (no offense to those that like it).

The Garmin operation and layout has always made sense to me where Raymarine didn’t. I just outfitted my new boat with Garmin and am loving it. 2 8612 (1 is xsv) and a black box 315 vhf radio. Future plans include an autopilot and AIS transceiver.

If you are considering getting and autopilot and RayMarine, look very carefully at how it operates. I was very uncomfortable with it for 2 reasons. 1. it will not automatically follow a course. At every turn you must manually OK every change in course and at every waypoint; Garmin will make the turn for you. 2. When Ray AP is active you CANNOT change course with the steering wheel. You have to do it with a little knob on the AP control, or hit a disengage button then turn the steering wheel. With Garmin you make a course correction just by turning the steering wheel; let go and the AP resumes. Think about both scenarios when dodging a log or lobster pot - I was uncomfortable with the RayMarine operation.
 
My understanding of Furuno is that it is very powerful and has high quality. But expensive and complex. It was explained to me thusly: if you want to make a bazillion adjustments and have total control of your system, look at Furuno or Simrad. If you want power but more set it and go boating, go Garmin. RayMarine was described as a very distant 4th option (no offense to those that like it).

The Garmin operation and layout has always made sense to me where Raymarine didn’t. I just outfitted my new boat with Garmin and am loving it. 2 8612 (1 is xsv) and a black box 315 vhf radio. Future plans include an autopilot and AIS transceiver.

If you are considering getting and autopilot and RayMarine, look very carefully at how it operates. I was very uncomfortable with it for 2 reasons. 1. it will not automatically follow a course. At every turn you must manually OK every change in course and at every waypoint; Garmin will make the turn for you. 2. When Ray AP is active you CANNOT change course with the steering wheel. You have to do it with a little knob on the AP control, or hit a disengage button then turn the steering wheel. With Garmin you make a course correction just by turning the steering wheel; let go and the AP resumes. Think about both scenarios when dodging a log or lobster pot - I was uncomfortable with the RayMarine operation.

Thanks b. I was not aware of that. I did know Garmin did have a much smoother interface and as you mentioned auto correct allows you to intervene throughout the course. I do like that in case as you mentioned obstacles that pop last second.

So may I ask why you bought one XSV and I assume XS? I am looking at that exact same setup. It has been very well praised by quite a few people I boat with, so to see it praised by a large population makes me feel confident. It also seems to have the newest technology vs. RM. I was not a fan of the SIMRAD setup. Just didn’t feel it was user friendly...
 
I have newer raymarine everything ...except autopilot... I couldn't imagine replacing the autopilot as its perfect.

I am in known waters and raymarine does everything I need and more... I see no advantage going anywhere else.

Now my pet peeve with raymarine is how it powers up and down. This has really pissed me off at times when I needed it. Powering up takes too much time... Then to accept the disclaimer is just down right ridiculous..to get this in perspective I have 3 screens staring at me with push the yellow button to accept if you crash because of this equipment we are not responsible... Seriously?.... You only have to accept one and all 3 come up... But it's a bit much. Powering down by holding off for 3 seconds is insane. I have 3 displays so this is 9 seconds out of my life if holding a beer ..4.5 if not :)... This was an expensive upgrade and to be pissed off every time I power up and down is a show stopper for me. So next purchase I will not over look this... I want one button on and no disclaimer and one button instant off

As I type this I am thinking I could rewire this for off... But not on.... Anyway that's my 2 cents... On/off
 
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My other point I wanted to make is this is a new boat to you. Don't rush into a major purchase without getting to know the boat and your area. You might run into circumstances that you never thought of... Get to k ow current electronics and their pros and cons... That too will help you decide what you need... For instance radar for me I use for weather more than I use it for shore or boats/objects
 
I have newer raymarine everything ...except autopilot... I couldn't imagine replacing the autopilot as its perfect.

I am in known waters and raymarine does everything I need and more... I see no advantage going anywhere else.

Now my pet peeve with raymarine is how it powers up and down. This has really pissed me off at times when I needed it. Powering up takes too much time... Then to accept the disclaimer is just down right ridiculous... Powering down by holding off for 3 seconds is insane. I have 3 displays so this is 9 seconds out of my life if holding a beer ..4.5 if not :)... This was an expensive upgrade and to be pissed off every time I power up and down is a show stopper for me. So next purchase I will not over look this... I want one button on and no disclaimer and one button instant off

As I type this I am thinking I could rewire this for off... But not on.... Anyway that's my 2 cents... On/off

Well you just made me decision even easier. No way could I deal with that $&%# but excellent to know.
 
My other point I wanted to make is this is a new boat to you. Don't rush into a major purchase without getting to know the boat and your area. You might run into circumstances that you never thought of... Get to k ow current electronics and their pros and cons... That too will help you decide what you need... For instance radar for me I use for weather more than I use it for shore or boats/objects

I would otherwise, but the screens do not even function at all. There glazed over and nothing comes alive. So unfortunately I don’t have the luxury of time in this instance. Kinda stinks, so I’m having to go off of friends and in store demos as well as ya’lls input. Don’t feel the pressure now ;)
 
Thanks b. I was not aware of that. I did know Garmin did have a much smoother interface and as you mentioned auto correct allows you to intervene throughout the course. I do like that in case as you mentioned obstacles that pop last second.

So may I ask why you bought one XSV and I assume XS? I am looking at that exact same setup. It has been very well praised by quite a few people I boat with, so to see it praised by a large population makes me feel confident. It also seems to have the newest technology vs. RM. I was not a fan of the SIMRAD setup. Just didn’t feel it was user friendly...

I got one 8612 and one 8612 xsv. The xsv indicates built in sonar capability. You really only need one unit for that, as the data can be shared across the screens. Getting 2 xsv units is a waste of money, IMO.

Forgot to mention I got a Fantom 24” solid state dome radar as well. My first radar, but it’s fantastic. Really like the super fast warm up and the Doppler technology that shows which way the target is heading - and thus highlight what’s more of a hazard.

Before making my decision I went to the Newport boat show last year. Spent at least an hour with the rep in RayMarine booth getting detailed demos. Then went to Garmin for some demos there. Going to a show with reps and demo stations is worth the time to really understand the equipment. The stuff is not cheap.
 
If you are considering getting and autopilot and RayMarine, look very carefully at how it operates. I was very uncomfortable with it for 2 reasons. 1. it will not automatically follow a course. 2. When Ray AP is active you CANNOT change course with the steering wheel. Think about both scenarios when dodging a log or lobster pot - I was uncomfortable with the RayMarine operation.
I have original autopilot from 2004 integrated with 2015 Ray Marine.... My setup will change course automatically without intervention or confirmation. When on AP you have to move the steering wheel further than usual to turn the boat...maybe 1/3 to disengage... But it disengages.. I have done this a few times to avoid an obstacle without issue... There is no way you would have time to press a button then turn the wheel... I don't know if your referring to newer technology but you make very valid points to investigate.
 
I have original autopilot from 2004 integrated with 2015 Ray Marine.... My setup will change course automatically without intervention or confirmation. When on AP you have to move the steering wheel further than usual to turn the boat...maybe 1/3 to disengage... But it disengages.. I have done this a few times to avoid an obstacle without issue... There is no way you would have time to press a button then turn the wheel... I don't know if your referring to newer technology but you make very valid points to investigate.

Yes, it’s the current equipment I saw. Maybe RayMarine changed the operations from older types?

Last fall in Newport the Ray rep stated clearly that the wheel will be locked until the AP is cancelled. Course corrections are via the small dial unless the system is disengaged. Also described in detail that you need to manually confirm each turn; the AP will disengage if the turn is not confirmed. He demoed both scenarios. It bothered me. There were some claims made against Garmin which I knew to be inaccurate as well, but that’s a separate issue.
 
Now my pet peeve with raymarine is how it powers up and down. This has really pissed me off at times when I needed it. Powering down by holding off for 3 seconds is insane. I have 3 displays so this is 9 seconds out of my life if holding a beer ..4.5 if not :)...

Networked Garmins handle that well: if I power one up, all 3 power-up. If I hold the power button on one to shut it down, all 3 shut down.

Another point about Garmin: It doesn't take long in a google search to find negative comments about Garmin's ActiveCaptain app, but I'm actually a fan and I use it all the time.

It's free on both iOS and Android platforms. The charts are free too, because it uses the licenses from your registered devices.

ActiveCaptain has 4 main components:

- Data syncing between your portable device and your MFD. (waypoints, routes, text messages and ActiveCaptain community data)
- Wireless software and chart updates from your device to your MFD, so no more handing off SD cards from your PC.
- Remote control of your MFD's from your mobile device
- Waypoint and route plotting on your mobile device

There are some quirks. Until last year the app would crash as soon as I launched it on my iPad, but the second launch was stable. I connected on a friend's boat once, and now the app tells me that I have a device "registered to another user's account" (the delete button doesn't work). Some people say that plotting features of the legacy app "Blue Chart Mobile" were superior. I still have it, but I haven't launched it in a long time. Others have had trouble with software updates, but they've worked great for me. As a Mac user, I no longer have to hunt down and borrow some virus-laden PC to keep my stuff updated.
 
Networked Garmins handle that well: if I power one up, all 3 power-up. If I hold the power button on one to shut it down, all 3 shut down.

Another point about Garmin: It doesn't take long in a google search to find negative comments about Garmin's ActiveCaptain app, but I'm actually a fan and I use it all the time.

It's free on both iOS and Android platforms. The charts are free too, because it uses the licenses from your registered devices.

ActiveCaptain has 4 main components:

- Data syncing between your portable device and your MFD. (waypoints, routes, text messages and ActiveCaptain community data)
- Wireless software and chart updates from your device to your MFD, so no more handing off SD cards from your PC.
- Remote control of your MFD's from your mobile device
- Waypoint and route plotting on your mobile device

There are some quirks. Until last year the app would crash as soon as I launched it on my iPad, but the second launch was stable. I connected on a friend's boat once, and now the app tells me that I have a device "registered to another user's account" (the delete button doesn't work). Some people say that plotting features of the legacy app "Blue Chart Mobile" were superior. I still have it, but I haven't launched it in a long time. Others have had trouble with software updates, but they've worked great for me. As a Mac user, I no longer have to hunt down and borrow some virus-laden PC to keep my stuff updated.


Does it work in conjunction of the newly updated Navionics app? Or is that still separate from the ActiveCaptain app?
 
My problem with Garmin is the charts look very cartoonish I’m more of a Navionics user so the charts look cheap on Garmin for me.
As far as having to constantly set Furuno systems not sure where you heard that.
Have built in WiFi for iPad viewing/control and the Autoplilot has “dodge” mode and Sabaki (steers the boats in reverse)
More for fishing.
I never thought I’d say this but I’d get the new Axiom’s over the Garmin now after FLIR stepped up Raymarines game.
 
When you see Active Captain app, the first thing you may think about is the traditional crowd sourced data that was provided under the Active Captain umbrella - either on browser, or integration into other charting tools (BlueChart, AquaMaps, etc).

Two comments:

First the crowd sourced data that previously I used heavily for the last few years I feel like has fallen off in value considerably. After the Garmin acquisition of AC, seems like fewer people are posting. When fewer people post a crowd sourced product starts to lose impact. That said, I still refer to it via Aquamaps at times. Aquamaps has both AC and Waterway Guide info. Finding waterway guide becoming much more useful. My understanding, I haven't explored it, the navionics app was supposed to have access to the AC database this summer.

Second, what is called the Active Captain app today is really a Garmin electronics control platform. Yes I can see the AC database. I can push the AC database down to the plotters and see traditional AC markers on the chart plotter (Marinas, Anchorages, etc).

The reason I use the Active Captain app is a whole set of features that are related to the Garmin electronics. My iPad connects to the Garmin network on the boat. Chart plotter sw updates are done via the iPad app. I can mirror either Chart plotter and have full control of the chart plotter on my iPad. Etc.
 
My problem with Garmin is the charts look very cartoonish I’m more of a Navionics user so the charts look cheap on Garmin for me.
As far as having to constantly set Furuno systems not sure where you heard that.

Navionics is being integrated into Garmin now that they have been purchased by Garmin. I think there is a way to get the Navionics "look" on Garmin, although I haven't tried. I've been a Garmin user for a long time so I'm used to it. I know that on the Active Captain app you have the choice of chart downloads: Bluechart, or Navionics. For some reason the charts for the latter take way more memory for the same area.

For Furuno, I guess I didn't explain my meaning well enough. I didn't mean that it had to be constantly set if you don't want to; rather that Furuno has such a deep set of customization and settings possibilities that it was designed to absolutely maximize peak performance for any particular situation. The knowledgeable operator can tweak things a to a very high degree. Not all boaters want that. That said Furuno is regarded as very high quality and technically excellent equipment.

Compare that to Garmin which has a pretty deep set of settings, but has more "auto" settings that let the equipment do the configuration. Such as radar settings: "bird auto", "Sea clutter high", "Sea clutter low", "Rain clutter high", etc, etc. You can still each gain manually, but IMO Garmin tries to simplify things so the captain can focus on running the boat and keep eyes up.
 

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