New vs. Slightly Used

Converse48

Well-Known Member
Nov 20, 2006
2,161
Chesapeake Bay
Boat Info
2010 McKinna 57 Pilothouse
Engines
QSM-11
Hi, I'm new to this board and am an aspiring Sea Ray owner. After an incredibly exhaustive search of every boat I could lay my eyes upon, we have finally decided upon the Sea Ray 44 Sedan Bridge. I absolutely love that boat! It is perfect in every way for the way we use our boat, and I WILL be buying one by the spring

The pending decision is: New versus slightly used (which is the only option anyway for this model). There are a good collection of 44s (and the 42 which is basically the same thing) on the internet with a range of 350K - 499K. And a new one appears to be netting out at almost $600K off a "sticker price" of 735K. On the one hand, I'm buying in to the value of having the new common rail 500HP engine versus the earlier engine version, and it would be nice to be able to trade my current boat, plus the newer versions come with the more updated "E" series navigation electronics, but I'm reticent about that initial depreciation hit (and higher payments of course).

So finally my questions:
1) Is there a best time of year to buy a new Sea Ray in terms of dealer and factory incentives?
2) How much negotiating do the dealers do? Will they compete with each other?
3) Any other advice?

I'm sorry if this line of questioning is redundant, but I searched the posts and did not find the answers I was looking for. I look forward to hearing from you all!

Thanks
 
You pose some interesting points, and I'll try to help you with the decision making process.

First off, divorce your thinking from anything having to do with purchasing autos because none of it works, except perhaps your personal approach when it come time to make an offer. THe reason is that there is no where near enough volume or data on boat transactions to make any pricing guide accurate. Beyond that, the only data available on used prices comes from brokers or dealers and its accuracy is highly suspect. There are some very good honest brokers out there, but there are just as many that write up their sold numbers to make themselves look l ike heros to themselves and their competitors.

Additionally, there may be 150 Lexus SC's for sale in 500 miles of you, but there may only be 25 Sedan Bridges in the same half of the country you live in.

But the biggest reason that you cannot use the same buying logic is that the market conditions and the demand for a particular style of boat control the price. If a 420DB is a very hot boat in a given market and there is only one available within 500 miles......you "ain't got no leverage", but if the boat is at a dealer who has a full floor plan and he has 2 of them and several million $ worth of new inventory coming, you might steal a boat.

With used boat, condition means absolutely everything. I've seen a 50% swing in prices in the same market on 2 different boats based on condition alone.

Be very wary of any photos you are shown and don't make an offer without looking at the boat first hand. I surveyed a boat in Texas last week for a friend. The initial photos ....there were 30 of them...showed a 407 hour boat that was absolutely perfect in every respect visible. When we finally flew out and saw her first hand, we discovered a boat that had been in a dealers inventory for a year and used monthly on dealer get-a-ways. Every vinyl surface needed replacement and the engines, while in great condition had 550+ hours on them. Be carefuland look at the details in any photos you are shown.

On the other hand, there are some absolutley great used boats out there and I will never buy a new one. My current boat had 70 hours on it and some of the plastic was still on the interior when we bought it.

If I were you I would broaden the search to include the 400DB as well since its essentially the same boat as the 420 and 44. For some reason, some of these boats end up being dock queens and being used as floating condos. They have very low time and are usually immaculate since the owners only sit or sleep on them. The Texas dealer where the 370 was last week had 2 2000- 2001 400DB's that looked new and were priced in the mid $200K area.

Finally, don't get exercised about common rail engines. From the owner's standpoint, the gains in efficiency are minimal, the reduction in smoke is marginal and only noticed on cold starts, and there is a lot less gee -whiz to cause problems on mechanical diesels. The only reason we are seeing electronic control and common rail systems is so the manufacturers can achieve emmission goals. Older Cummins 6CTA's are very good, close to bullet proof, only smoke on cold starts and hard acceleration and the Caterpillar unit injection system on 3116's and 3126's are very efficient, and just don't smoke...they are as clean as an electronic Cummins and are trouble free.

On new boats, the best time of year to buy a big boat is at Yacht Rendevouz or whatever they call it this year since its purose is to sell up production slots in the Jan-March time frame and Sea Ray puts some serious discounts on the table if you are a buyer and go to the event. On used boat, there is no one time better than others. If you shop used, catching one before an owner has to winterize may save you a little, but finding a dealer/owner who needs to sell the right boat (condition/features) is the key.

Negotiating a good price is an art. It requires a lot of homework on local market, due diligence on the boat, knowing what you are seeing when you look at the boat, and no fear of hurting someone's feelings as you make an offer. The key is being able to defend a low offer by knowing what a used boat needs and what the market for it is. I've seen deals happen at the listing price when I know the seller is desparate and the boat is a dog and I've seen other very nice late model boats sold for a lot less.......we bought the 370EC in Texas for 64% of its original listing price, we saw a 420DA sold last year for about 75% of its original asking price, but those deals are rare and all the planets were aligned in terms of market conditions and the dealer's need to sell boats.

Finally, don't worry about electronics unless you are looking at a 1-2 year old boat.......Anything with Raytheon or 2+ year old Raymarine gear is probably out of date and/or does not work and you need to value it zero and plan on just updating it anyway. You may get lucky and fina an updated boat, but far more times new owners end up replacing electronics.

THe one piece of added advice I can give you is DO YOUR DUE DILLIGENCE. Have both a hull and a mechanical survey done and don't just pick a surveyor off a list somewhere. Interview the surveyor and get someone who is competent, will teach you , and is someone who's chemistry is such that you can strike a good working relationship.

Boat shopping is fun but it takes a while and depending upon your location there may be some travel involved....so have fun!
 
Frank you are a real asset to this board. Your knowledge and background has resulted in some excellent advice. :thumbsup:
 
fwebster- thanks for the advice. They do a nice job making the common rail engines seem like a big deal! I think I will wait for the winter boat show specials and see what happens. The dealers I have spoken to about new boats definately seem to want to make a deal, but I'd like to wait and see what the factory might kick in over the winter. Plus, no real reason to buy a boat now that I can't use for six months.

As far as the 400DB, I see a major difference between that boat and the 42-44 sedans. I know that they look similar on paper, but we (OK, the Admiral) are very particular and the 400 has some things that don't work for us.

There are a decent number (maybe 10) of 1-2 year old 42-44 sedans within 500 miles of my boating location (Rock Hall, MD), but you are right, it's nothing like the car market! Lastly, when I do buy this boat, it will be my thirteenth boat (lucky number, huh?), and I too am a big believer in detailed personal inspections and the use of surveyors.

Thanks again!
 
I too, would buy used. With patience you'll find what you want.
A local large SR dealer had a prospect that always brought his friend to the dealership as moral support during the buying process. After some negotiations on a 48 motoryacht the buyer(s) made one last and final offer for TWO 48s! What a great sale. What a happy dealer! I bet the delivery and commissioning was beautifully done on a timely basis. WRONG! As soon as the checks cleared the buyers were treated like --- will you know.
Buy used you'll probably have fewer problems. The market is soft right now and there is a lot to look at. However, it takes time and effort. I just closed on a used SR with a fair cash holdback until spring.
Re: the dealers competing The commissioning, warrantee and service issues on new boats are so problematic if I were to buy from any dealer I would want him at arm's length after the sale.
 
A couple other thoughts:

I looked hard at the 420 DB last year. Without question the best price to be had on a new boat are at Yacht Expo. SeaRay was very aggressive with incentives at Yacht Expo. If you are serious I highly recommend you get your dealer to invite you to Yacht Expo.

Two observations I made about the 420DB.
1. When I looked there were allot of used boats out there with very low hours / low ownership time. Some were flipped within weeks of purchase. I poked around and convinced myself that the 420DB was an "in between boat" (at least for our boating conditions). Owners seemed to buy them - use them briefly then quickly upgraded to a bigger sedan bridge.
2. The 420DB was wonderful in flat conditions but wet in sloppy conditions. I saw one 420 taking waves over the bridge in 3 - 4 ft head seas. For my money the old 450EB was a far better ride.

I have to qualify my remarks with the fact that I ended up back in a Sundancer. I just am not a bridge boat driver. The 420DB has a wonderful layout, great creature comforts and nice appearance. It may be perfect for the way you operate your boat.

Hope this helps

Jon
 
So when/where is YachtExpo?

Also, I love the look of the 'dancers, but we like having the one-level living space and openness/visibility of the sedan interior. Plus, I'm a bridge guy.
 
Yacht Expo is early december at the SeaRay plant in Merrirt Island. It is an awsome event. Typically SeaRay introduces new boats, they wine and dine you, (first class), there are plant tours, sea trials and last but not least HARD SELL. Your dealer should know all about it.
 
bliss said:
WRONG! As soon as the checks cleared the buyers were treated like --- will you know.
<snip>
Re: the dealers competing The commissioning, warrantee and service issues on new boats are so problematic if I were to buy from any dealer I would want him at arm's length after the sale.

I think this depends heavily on the dealer. We bought a brokerage boat from a local SR dealer and were treated extremely well. We bought at Thanksgiving, had some issues (about $3,000 of repairs at the seller's expense) that need to be repaired by spring, and we kept the boat there over winter -- even though we planned to eventually keep the boat closer to home.

The work was done well, on time, and the salesman followed up with us several times during the season to make sure we liked the boat.

And that was on a brokerage boat, not new or even one of their trades.

Jeff
 
I too will only buy used. There just too much to lose on initial depreciation. I'll let someone else eat that up ... just finding the best deal is a blast in it self!
 
I also will never buy new again. There are just too many good used boats out there for me to buy new and take that hit in depreciation. It just flat out does not figure for me. With used I can go bigger and still have a like-new boat. No question for me ... I am too close to my money to do otherwise ...
 
I'll throw in my vote for used also. If you are patient you can buy a year or two ahead of the depreciation curve. There are lots of boats and some very good deals out there.
 
Thanks to all for the input... much to consider. Upon prompting, my dealer gained access to some YachtExpo (which is next weekend) pricing, and then some, only complicating matters. :smt017 Will keep you posted...
 
I prefer to buy new. I'm not a particularly good mechanic, and don't get a buzz from do-it-yourself projects. I do appreciate having a warrantee backed by a good dealer. I like knowing that I'm likely the first person to use the head and that a previous owner's dog has not deposited DNA on the boat. I get a buzz from being the first to experiment with everything on the boat.

Regarding depreciation, if you buy new at the right price, depreciation can be minimal. I got a good price on my new 260, and received a trade-in equal to what I paid for my 225 14 months earlier. Buying new also comes with the satisfaction that you're getting the latest designs and technology. Oh, and you can't beat that new boat smell! :wink:
 
I agree, that new boat smell is SWEEEEET!!!! :thumbsup: but law enforcement doesn't pay as well as most of ya'lls jobs do, so for me to attempt to run with the big boys, I'll go used. As Admiral Alex put it (in a way), you can go a bit bigger buying a bit older!
 
The only way to get the bottom price on a big boat is to attend Yacht Expo........long didtance, cell phones and email won't do it. You have to go.

The idea from Sea Ray's standpoint is that they cannot get northern dealers to take big boats until the weather breaks in the spring. That means their factories will have some open time and sit idle in the Jan to March production period. An idle boat factory bleeds unrecovered overhead thru a great big artery.

They have now figured out that taking less profit or no profit on a boat produced in Jan -March allows them to keep the factories running and recovering some overhead. As a result, those who attend Yacht Expo and who are willing to commit for a Jan -March production slot can get a tremendous deal. Go prepared to make offers and play hard ball. Expect to be put in a box...i.e. small room, ala car dealer's closing office.......and have some pressure applied to make a deal. Very signicficant discounts are available to those who go thru the process.

How much??? You 'll never know until you go. I can tell you that a friend was looking to a new 460DA and went to Yacht Expo when he was $75K apart from trading with the dealer on the boat........and he made a deal for the boat while he was there.
 
YachtExpo is the first weekend in December. It is "full" so I can't go. However, my dealer is offering the show pricing if I close before year end.
 
Yacht Expo is never closed if SeaRay thinks you are a buyer. Granted SeaRay is strict about who gets invited. They want serious buyers at Yacht Expo. I bet you would get an invite if your dealer called SeaRay and indicated that they had a buyer that was ready to pull the trigger but needed to sea trial the boat and speak with the engineers about design questions.

Just my opinion.
 
fair enough... I can't imagine them turning down someone who really wanted to go. I never actually asked to be invited, not could I go if I was invited, but I do want the deal!
 

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