New Thinker

[rogerscdr]

Hello everyone. My task is to add a new navigation assistance system to all recreational and small commercial boats. For about 10 years now I have designed the system and formed a company to build and distribute it. Unlike most systems that are mainly displays, our system will allow your GPS and ID to privately be sent to our shore computer, analyze the 'environment' around you to see if there are any approaching threats to your safe navigation. Severe storms, underwater topology, collision with boats participating in our system, fuel spills, large floating objects, maritime ships and a host of others. If threatened, your boat will receive a proactive warning describing the threat pictorially, the threats 'ETA' and provide an advisory action or course. This is now a patented system. If you are interested, I will provide you with the Patent No. It willl likely use the iphone GPS, or a special purpose device similar to the iphone, but less expensive and dedicated to our system purpose. Our concern is safety of the boater, improve emergency and service responses and assist all on-water jurisdications in the event of a threatened, God forbid, small boat attack by terrorists. So, that is what I am about, and if you have comments, I'd sure like to read them and, when I have time, reply.
Thanks for reading all this. Even a positive go for it single comment will help me access the response to this new system.

 

[fc3]

Nice, but I don't think I want you, your company, the government, or any efingbody else tracking my movements. Too damn Orwellian.

Let me subscribe to a region or a series of regions. Then you send me the data to be integrated on my local display.

Best regards,
Frank

 

[tdappleman]

I'd question the coverage you will get if you are relying on cellular technology to provide you with the connectivity. I agree with Frank - send me the data for a specific region similar to XM Weather and traffic and overlay it on my display. If you could make it connect via the NMEA bus even better to reduce the amount of equipment needed - plug in boxes, etc.

 

[Sea Gull]

Well I, for one, would like to read the patent but I am skeptical that there is much of a market within the recreational boating community.

You state that you will provide a "proactive warning describing the threat pictorially"
and that this will include "Severe storms, underwater topology, collision with boats participating in our system, fuel spills, large floating objects, maritime ships and a host of others."

A few comments and questions:
Severe storms - already being done quite well by Sirius/XM which integrates with existing MFDs. How is yours different or better?
underwater topology - I already have updated charts - can you give me an example of what information your system would provide that is not already provided by the charts and LNM?
collision with boats participating in our system - There is market resistance to AIS, which is an already proven technology, (cheap with no monthly fees). I can't really see how you can imagine enough market penetration to make this more useful than the combination of human observation, AIS and radar.
fuel spills - Do I really care?
large floating objects - Please explain how you are going to track these? We have telephone pole size trees in our river that even the local police and harbor master can't track - how do you plan to accomplish what professional on the water can't?
maritime ships - Again, unless they are subscribers to your system, you would be relying on AIS - which I already have and most recreational boaters resist even at a low acquisition cost with zero ongoing fees.
and a host of others- can you elaborate?

Like they say on National Public Radio - "we are interested in the way creative minds work".

 

[Sea Gull]

Looks like it's US Patent 7047114US

 

[Sundancer]

So as I skip through a hazardous area at 25 mph knowing full well where all the obstacles are, how is your system going to stay ahead of a constantly changing speed and velocity to "warn" what objects I'm going to hit? We have a few places that are treacherous, but very well marked that we travel through in an "S" pattern. How will your system compensate when my speed varies? How long will it take to update? I don't want to take my head away from the window to see what's beeping now. If I travel in a circle near shore is it going to continuously warn me that I've got 3 seconds to impact? Everytime I drop some one at the dock it's going to go off, when I have water skiers and I head toward the dock it's going to go off and if I'm fishing close to shore constantly making corrections to get closer to shore it's going to go off?

In a big ship that rarely changes course, this might work. A good captain will be a step ahead of any computer! Don't get me wrong, there are some idiots on the water that could benefit because they aren't watching at all, but most of us travel in known waters and I certainly wouldn't pay for this and would hope it has a big OFF button!

 

[rogerscdr]

I just answered a very similar post. We will have navigation charts that indicate that you are currently in a dicey situation and requires your full attention. I used the analogy that it is like you are a boxer and focusing on the opponents very skillful use of a left jab; however, unlike normal boxers, this one has the threat of 3 right arms. We will assist you in watching for other threats when you are busy keeping your passengers and vessel safe, Captain, that's why you are at the helm. Reminds me of a container ship TRUE incident. The Helmsman (or Helmswoman) was showing some of the crew the beautiful images on the chart plotter on the dash. Not watching the heading, there was an overturned container ship ahead on the course. You guessed it, plowed right into it. 60 % of accidents are attributed to inattention and unawareness of other threats approaching or being approached.
Anchors Aweigh Skipper

 

[rogerscdr]

Well I, for one, would like to read the patent but I am skeptical that there is much of a market within the recreational boating community.

You state that you will provide a "proactive warning describing the threat pictorially"
Yes, very clear and concise. Such as a single like for severe storm front, ref to your boat, audible sound plus displayed ETA and next screen advisory course or action plan for threa avoidance. Sirus is just a picture that you may not be aware is coming. The system will have charts and look at your vessel's course. Your charts don't provide an advance warning. AIS will be monitored in the System as well as DSC. AIS samples slower than molases for smaller vessels we will be at GPS sampling freq. I would be uneasy navigating through gas. Your right, 'professionals' miss the boat. We will be relying on TowBoatUS service calls and boat operators sending info to TowBoat US + Prof. data

If you send me your Email, I will send a couple of power point presenations that may help clarify some of your concerns about a host of others.

Rogers
Thank you for your attitude, I've been working on this for 10 years + and it is a very comprehensive system. 5 years of practical analysis of the REAL needs of the boater. Not fancy color charts as a primary source, but actual warnings for multiple types of threats. You Capains have your hands full as it is.

 

[rogerscdr]

I wish I could answer all the questions. As I mentioned, 10 years of looking at boating accidents, in process, USCG records, National Security Legislation, USCG Mariner Weekly Reports, Congressional Sessions, LIve, House Rules, Current state of the art instrumentation, International Laws, Charts, Doppler Radar Images, XM Radio advances (buy their stock), visited Brunswick Development, tons of correspondence.
It's all been consolidated into one useful system. I've applied technology that I've applied in computer process and plant management systems systems for huge steel mill plants, chemical plants, beverage can lines, ore mines, US Postal Facilities, underground coal mines, home health medication delivery systems = 55 years of experience of appied in bringing this 'last shot' hopefully to fruition. Again, my mission at this point in life is to prevent the annual loss of nearly 700 lives and 3400 serious injuries due to boating accidlents. I think the system can reduce this by a factor of 40 % from the data I have analyzed over these years.

Thank you for responding. I'm new to this website, and you men and women are the grass roots I like to see raise interest and questions.

- The Thinker (I somehow just can't close the toolbox!!!_

 

[Four Suns]

You have a website with any info on the product?

Or are you still working on stuff?

 

[jitts3]

There is no need for anybody other that me to know where I am unless you can see me...then you do too. Nobody in DC or anywhere needs to know where I am. You cannot build a device that can prevent all crashed or incidences. The govt. has tried to make regulations on who can operate certain vehicles. But not for nothing how many kids die from bicycle accidents per year. Do they need this fancy deal or is it just a matter of excriment happens. Sucks to be the 700 who die, I would argue that most of the 700 just gave themselves Darwin Awards anyhow. However MILLIONS have boatde this year most all of them many numorous times to figure some couple Billion Trips, your gonna save the 700 determined to die?...Yea right!
By the way the kids on bikes, better to ban Bikes? Might save 137 kids (2001) But that ruins the countless millions of kids who don't die.
Get the piont.
So long story short take your Big Brother Tellescreen and install it in your car or boat. I'll worry about me and my family. See thats the best thing about being an American. The abillity to do something stupid, and learn from it.
Sorry for the passion, I've just have had enough of Govt in my life.:smt013

 

[rogerscdr]

Probably the history that I've looked at, in addition to my own on-water experiences has led me to not let collision avoidance overlooked. Vessel to vessel in particular. One in particular I turn over in my mind. A Donzi speed boat was doing about 70 in the Bay of Erie, PA. It collided with a PWC with 2 people on-board. The couple was to be married later in the month and the were killed instantly. I put that incident as a target objective at one end of the spectrum. Possible to prevent, not likely. Should any attempt be made to examine methodologies, yes. A tug running over a dredger is at the other end of the spectrum. Same methodology. So, somewhere in between there is a breakpoint - it won't work. BUT it tells me to make the final design inexpensive, small enough to be installed on a large PWC. Maybe it won't prevent a collision, but there are likely 20 or 30 other threats that may be avoided for the PWC. You are the Captain of your destiny. If you are aware there is some airhead who just isn't excersizing proper control of a PWC - jumping your wake for example you may be the preventor - maybe YOU can challenge their sensibilities somehow. Some of these PWCs really challenge your senses. Even if you have a first sighting, you know watch out. Unfortunately I don't have a website yet. The people at Carnegie Mellon Univ. have suggested it. I will probably get to it. Right now, I'm surveying and contacting major companies for partnering. We have a start-up Corp. in PA and a skeleton staff of Technical, Scientific and Financial Executives - all top shelf people committed to our task.

Watch out for Tony - he's very immature and likely a very poor Captain of his ship

 

[jitts3]

Watch out for Tony - he's very immature and likely a very poor Captain of his ship

I'll let the crack on me pass by, BUT

While you intentions may infact be nobel, They will have unintended consiquences that will severly restrict everyone in the future. You just can't idiot proof the world from Idiots.
Now I'll admit I'n new to this but I have noticed that all the beeping bells and whistle that one instals in a car to keep them safe the proplem is the driver just doesn't care. Do you know how many times a month I need to smash on the Brakes of this Peterbilt Truck to not crash into sombody who http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNman000 cuts infront of me at an intersection or infront of me to get the exit ramp at the last moment. No Eaton Vorad hooked up to a Taddle Tale box in here, Just a good driver and 2 mirrors and a ability to often enough predict the dumb ass moves of the "Typical 4 wheeler".
FYI I lost track of the lives MY DRIVING Has saved by kids not in seat belts driven by these crazed lunitics by MY ability to thread the needle with a 40 ton truck to not hit one of these nuts.
They spend all kinds of money to make the car safer, but they still drive like lunitics. Seems like a waist of money to me. Its not the hardware, Its the HUMAN element.
Humans do stupid things, and some Humans get hurt. You CAN'T Prevent that. No matter how hard you try.

Again, as for the crack at me...I'll give you a pass.

 

[Tonka Boater]

<deleted>

 

[jitts3]

Why is everyone jumping on this guy and being so negative?

The technology sounds cool and it sounds like he's working out the application of this technology. That's fine if it's not for you but man, why all the bashing?

We seem to have some paranoid people here :wow: :smt119

.

Ever seen a man make a living, hurt no one, not even once, and see him do time because a "Locater" device said he was here when he said he was there? Or if some drunk hits your boat and dies, All the while his Colision aviodence Beeper was doing everything except kick him in the b%$%s and you were found to be speeding by 5-10. You wouldn't have been there, a DA will tell you in open court. Now the death is your fault! His death had nothing to do with the fact he was loaded on Blow and Booze! Glad you bought this thing now? Think I'm Kidding. It's already a reality in my line of work. These guys I'll admit have valid ideas with good intentions. But the proven pratical application has been a disaster, unless your a lawyer.

 

[jitts3]

They wouldn't be so paranoid ifin everyone wasn't out to get 'em...

Thank goodness the fine engineers at Raymarine didn't bounce their ideas here first.

My E120 has lots of cool features that show me targets that might need my attention.


Hands-down, the best safety tool resides between the ears.

But does it rat you out?
The thing between the ears is the best way out of a bad mess.
Here is proof that even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Here Wingless is right.:wow:

 

[rogerscdr]

I can't remember if I already replied to your message, but, if I have, forgive me. I am not used to the layout and response proceedures for this website. Unlike the current method where several instruments are scattered about, and in some cases multi-apportioned and selectable screens on one instrument. We are talking here about a single, 'larger than a cellphone form factor.' Our goal is to read your GPS, and with a server computer analyze IF and WHAT potential threats are approaching your vessel (via software analyses of weather Doppler RADAR, and the other 'raw data' that you mention in your comment. If it is determined that your vessel is or will be threatened, based on your current heading, speed and position, a very simple and concise warning will be sent to the handheld/portable/cradle-mount device. (Sort of acting as your eyes, ears, feel of the vessel pitch, wind on your cheek, etc.). We call in a proactive warning. If nothing else, if you are not currently aware of the threat because your attention maybe on some other pressing matter, an audible warning, possibly a female/male discription, then a very simple graphic showing the nature of the warning in a concise manner, followed by an advisory course or action to avoid the threat. We are out to complement your existing instrumentation, not to replace it, nor provide the highly detailed screens. True, you named a number of sources, but our objective is to lump them into one source, priortized, and many other functions.

Hope that I've clarified all. We are looking at about $700 to $900. It will also have shore connectivity and analysis of DSC and AIS. Picture cellular to 8 nm, and DSC/AIS out to 20 miles. Within 8 nm from shore, traffic intensity is higher therefore need 1 or 1/2 second transaction speed. Further out - AIS - B of 30 seconds OK.
Thanks for your interest. I hope that I've helped you see the system through my eyes.

Dave