New Rule shower sump (no output)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by boatman37, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. boatman37

    boatman37 Well-Known Member

    Jun 6, 2015
    pittsburgh
    2006 Crownline 250CR. 5.7 Merc BIII
    Previous: 1986 Sea Ray 250 Sundancer. 260 Merc Alpha 1 Gen 1
    5.7 Merc BIII
    So ordered a new Rule 98A shower sump to replace my old one. Got it all hooked up and added water. Pump kicks on when float triggers but nothing comes out. Checked the output hose and it's clear. Can blow through it with ease. There is a pinhole at the top of the output tube coming out of the pump with a matching hole in the hose. My guess is this is a relief 'valve' in case there is a plug up? I removed the top cover and put my finger over that pinhole and still nothing. There is something black inside the output hose (the short clear piece that is inside the sump box). Should that be removed? The instructions don't give much. Seems pretty much plug and play but can't figure this one out. The black piece inside the hose seems sort of spongy or foamy. Not sure if this is to prevent backflow of debris or what.
     
  2. Pierpressure1

    Pierpressure1 Member SILVER Sponsor GOLD Sponsor

    174
    Sep 8, 2015
    Richmond, VA
    1998 400 Sedan Bridge
    Cat 3116
    That black thing is there to prevent backflow.

    Have you checked that the input and output plastic connection pipes have been cut? When I installed a new one on my 340 I had to cut the plastic ends off the connections I used for input and output.
     
    Chris-380 likes this.
  3. electricaldoctor

    electricaldoctor Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    May 14, 2008
    Thousand Islands, Rockport, Ontario.
    1988 390 EC
    454 Mercruiser Gassers
    Check for proper operation before connecting outflow pipe.
     
  4. northern

    northern Well-Known Member

    Jan 17, 2007
    West coast Vancouver to Alaska
    380 Aft Cabin 1989 GPS and Charts by Nobeltec
    Twin 454 strait shaft
    Mine does the same. Seems no water gets into the impeller area when the pump is dry. My pump twists off at the top the bowl of the pump fills and the pump works fine. This happens every spring as the sump is dry. Once full it works all summer.
    There is a small hole in the bottom of the bowl I assume that is let water in. I make sure it is clean but it does not help.
     
  5. boatman37

    boatman37 Well-Known Member

    Jun 6, 2015
    pittsburgh
    2006 Crownline 250CR. 5.7 Merc BIII
    Previous: 1986 Sea Ray 250 Sundancer. 260 Merc Alpha 1 Gen 1
    5.7 Merc BIII
    Yep, I cut the caps off...lol. And with no output hose connected it does spray out but not gushing. But definitely more than the 1/4" in 5 minutes it spit out with the hose connected. But I blew through the hose several times and it flows easily.
     
  6. electricaldoctor

    electricaldoctor Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    May 14, 2008
    Thousand Islands, Rockport, Ontario.
    1988 390 EC
    454 Mercruiser Gassers
    Is your pump motoring backwards? Try reversing your wiring connection.
     
    Chris-380 likes this.
  7. boatman37

    boatman37 Well-Known Member

    Jun 6, 2015
    pittsburgh
    2006 Crownline 250CR. 5.7 Merc BIII
    Previous: 1986 Sea Ray 250 Sundancer. 260 Merc Alpha 1 Gen 1
    5.7 Merc BIII
    Was going to try swapping the wires next but pretty sure I got those right. But it definitely pumps out s bunch more without the hose on there. Not sure whats up with that. With the hose attached it went down about 1/4" in 5 minutes but with the hose off it probably would have emptied the whole sump in about 30 seconds
     
  8. Krazzeeddie

    Krazzeeddie Active Member

    117
    Sep 21, 2017
    MI, Lake Saint Clair, Salt River, Club Island
    370 Sundancer, 1993
    Avon Rib, Merc 15hp
    Baja 240 Sport, For fun.
    454 Merc... V Drives
    Is there a check valve in-line in your output hose that is stuck and not fully opening?

    Ed
     
    techmitch likes this.
  9. boatman37

    boatman37 Well-Known Member

    Jun 6, 2015
    pittsburgh
    2006 Crownline 250CR. 5.7 Merc BIII
    Previous: 1986 Sea Ray 250 Sundancer. 260 Merc Alpha 1 Gen 1
    5.7 Merc BIII
    Not that I can see. When I disconnect the hose quite a bit runs back out so the hose is filling up. Seems like maybe it fills partially then stops pushing. But I can blow through the hose from the pump end easily
     
  10. Stee6043

    Stee6043 Well-Known Member

    Jun 1, 2015
    West Michigan
    1997 Sundancer 400
    7.4L Gassers
    FWIW when I replaced two Rule pumps last year I had one where the check valve had come out of the old pump and moved itself an inch or so downstream in the drain line. It took a cell phone camera and a flash light to find it. Once I pulled that out it was green lights all around. Might be worth a check.
     
  11. Krazzeeddie

    Krazzeeddie Active Member

    117
    Sep 21, 2017
    MI, Lake Saint Clair, Salt River, Club Island
    370 Sundancer, 1993
    Avon Rib, Merc 15hp
    Baja 240 Sport, For fun.
    454 Merc... V Drives
    It could be just a bad pump from Rule, It might not create enough pump pressure to over come the head pressure of the output hose.
     
  12. Korkie

    Korkie Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    416
    Feb 2, 2016
    Leonardtown, MD Potomac River / Chesapeake Bay
    340 Sundancer 2006, Garmin 7612, xHD Radome
    Merc 496 Mags, Bravo III Drives
    Not sure what this black sponge thing is you mention. If you can take that out of the loop and try hooking your hose that you can blow through directly to the pump to rule out an issue with that black section. I am thinking that is a check valve that is broken or stuck closed. Which may mean your original pump is actually fine.
     
    Chris-380 likes this.
  13. ttmott

    ttmott PhD in OCD GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    Sometimes those rule pumps get air in them and they will not pump anything until that air purges out; a tiny pin hole on the housing seems to be that vent for air to purge out. Maybe completely submerge the pump and let it run.
     
    Chris-380 likes this.
  14. RollerCoastr

    RollerCoastr Well-Known Member

    Nov 15, 2007
    Cedar Point, OH / Miami, FL / MacRay Harbor, MI
    1997 400DA
    340HP 7.4 Mercruiser Bluewaters
    Garmin 741, 742, 8212, 24HD, Intellian I2
    1999 280BR
    Twin 250HP Merc 350 Alpha Ones
    Yep - mine is also very bad at priming. I re-seat it, bang on it, call it names, re-seat it again, one more bang and then it works perfectly.
     
  15. RollerCoastr

    RollerCoastr Well-Known Member

    Nov 15, 2007
    Cedar Point, OH / Miami, FL / MacRay Harbor, MI
    1997 400DA
    340HP 7.4 Mercruiser Bluewaters
    Garmin 741, 742, 8212, 24HD, Intellian I2
    1999 280BR
    Twin 250HP Merc 350 Alpha Ones
    I'm not a religious person, but I do believe that sump pumps were designed by satan.
     
    Stee6043, Krazzeeddie and Chris-380 like this.
  16. boatman37

    boatman37 Well-Known Member

    Jun 6, 2015
    pittsburgh
    2006 Crownline 250CR. 5.7 Merc BIII
    Previous: 1986 Sea Ray 250 Sundancer. 260 Merc Alpha 1 Gen 1
    5.7 Merc BIII
    So pulled the 'spongy' thing out. It was a cone shaped piece I assume is the check valve? No better.

    Reversed the wires...no better

    With the output hose off it shots out pretty good. Seems to be about like out of a garden hose. When I hook the hose up the level goes down until the hose is full then it stops pushing. When I shut it off it backflushes right back into the sump. I can blow through the hose pretty easily. When the pump is running I can hear it through the thru hull outside the boat.

    So seems the pump isn't the issue, its the hose somehow. Can't see the whole hose as it runs through the bottom of the hull and exits the boat behind my AC unit so can't see very good in there either.
     
  17. electricaldoctor

    electricaldoctor Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    May 14, 2008
    Thousand Islands, Rockport, Ontario.
    1988 390 EC
    454 Mercruiser Gassers
    With the check valve removed, can you push a fish tape through the pipe to remove any possible restriction or with the pump running and exiting the through hull fitting, push your fish tape in from the outside to see if it loosens up any obstructions. Maybe something built a nest in the line?
     
  18. Krazzeeddie

    Krazzeeddie Active Member

    117
    Sep 21, 2017
    MI, Lake Saint Clair, Salt River, Club Island
    370 Sundancer, 1993
    Avon Rib, Merc 15hp
    Baja 240 Sport, For fun.
    454 Merc... V Drives
    Try putting a new piece of hose on about the same length of the original one and run it out of the boat anywhere at about the same height as the original one.

    If it pumps you have a blockage in the old one if it does not the pump is not building enough pressure to compensate for the head pressure in the hose.

    This would explain why you can blow though the hose and it seems alright and would also explain why the pump works fine with no hose connected to it.
     
  19. dvx216

    dvx216 Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Feb 1, 2012
    orrville,ohio
    2000 310 sundancer 5.7






















    n/a
    twin 5.7 300 Hp.
    Hold a garden hose up tight to the out put hose and see if there is any back pressure that will tell you if you have a problem with the hose. Blowing air through it will not tell you anything.The next thing is if the pump is not vented properly. It might have an air pocket keeping the water from getting up to the impeller.
     
  20. atrick

    atrick Active Member

    230
    Mar 4, 2017
    Penna
    1995 searay 290 Sundancer
    1990 21 maxum
    Twin 4.3 mercrusers with alpha one genII drives
    305 chevy with a alpha one drive
    go to hardware store and get a hose fitting with a adapter to attach to your discharge hose from pump and hook your garden hose up to it, should be able to tell real fast if its clear if not it should blow out any debris.
     

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