New or Used 40 Sundancer - Please help!

Quint

Quint

New Member
Jun 11, 2007
25
Las Vegas
Boat Info
2001 240 Sundeck
Engines
6.2 MerCruiser with Bravo 3
Hello everyone

There are some very experienced, knowledgable people here, so I'm counting on some advice! Thanks. Here goes...

Near where I live, a dealer has two 40 Sundancers for sale:
A. An '04 with 8.1 Horizon gas inboards
B. A brand new '06 with 420 Hp 8.1 Horizon gas inboards

The second boat, as well as being brand new, is only $90,000 more than the used one. It also has a bow thruster, the more powerful engines, extra electronics, and DSS satellite TV in the cockpit (whatever that is - if anyone would care to let me know, I sure would appreciate it).

Both are very good deals, but the new one has extra kit as well as a full factory warranty. The used boat has a navy blue hull with blue exterior trim, and the new boat is white hull with blue trim. If I was ordering new, I think I would have a white hull, because even though the blue looks sensational, it's harder to keep clean. Also, white is a timeless boat color.

Oh, and the used one has just over 200 hours on the engines, and lives in salt water.

If you have some strong opinions of this, I should would love to hear them! :thumbsup:
 
Quint,
We have corresponded previously so the whole gas vs diesel thing, so I will add a few thoughts on the other aspects of these two boats. I have no helm time in a 40DA so this is based solely on my experience looking for, and purchasing, used Sea Rays.

"Only" is never a word I will put in front of a figure like $90,000. In my world that is a whole lot of money--heck, that is 4 years of college for one of my kids. The 04 boat has already depreciated. BIG Gas boats are simply not selling right now, so you can probably bargain pretty hard on that boat. There is probably residual warranty on some of the components of the boat, plus the SR hull warranty transfers, so you have some protection there. Having said all that, SR has put some significant rebate money on new boats, so there are bargains to be had...but that new boat is still worth 15% less the minute you motor away from the sales dock.

The 8.1HO develops the additional 50 HP at the upper end of the RPM range, whcih is not where you will cruise. I am not sure that the HO gets you a whole lot more for the money, but I will defer to guys who have run both.

A bow thruster is a nice to have, but unnecessary, item. I do not have a thruster on my 420DA and have never needed one.

DSS is satellite TV-nice to have.

Best of luck with it-
Skip
 
I concur with much above .. .

$90,000 is more than a year's NET salary for me. $90,000 is more than I paid for my boat, and my next car, combined. $90,000 pays for more than a little mechancial work.

A used 04 boat is now considered a 4 year old used boat. A new 07 will be a considered a 1 year old used boat before you leave the dock.

I am not sure I would consider gas engines in a boat of this size.

Bow thruster is a very nice option. Maybe unnecessary, sort of like the way that anti-lock brakes and 4 wheel drive are unnecessary on a car.

The value of DSS TV & ALL the electronics on these boats will total less than the sales tax on the transaction Ignore whatever the boats have now, and buy what you want after you own it.
 
A 40' boat with gas engines?............you know where I'm going to be on that one.....I'd pick neither.

But here are some observations.......$90K will buy a lot of electronics and TV's, but on the other hand, in 5 years your blue hull '04 will be 8+ years old and it might be worth $90K to not have to deal with maintaining the blue gelcoat at that point.

If the new boat is a left over, trade very hard...Sea Ray is giving the dealers a lot of help on moving inventory.

If you pick the used boat,and 200 hours iis less than normal for an '04, be sure you do a mechanical survey that includes checking the conditions of the exhaust system cast iron parts.
 
I have to slightly disagree with the crowd. Given the two choices, I would go for the new boat here. That being said, I would bargain like an SOB on the price. New, '06, BIG, Gas - they'll give that thing away to get out from under it. You should get it at a price that will allow you to sell it without a huge hit, if you can find a buyer.

If you really want a huge boat with gas engines, the '06 sounds like the way to go, but don't expect to sell that boat without trying for a couple of years - heck, the dealer couldn't when it was new!

This boat would be good for very short runs with looooonnnnngggg weekends out. Long cruises would be painful due to the stress on the engines, the short time between fuel stops, and the cost at the pump.
 
Please note that I started writing my reply above before Frank's showed up. I agree with him on several points.
 
Quint I would personally try to find the newest comparable model with diesels that is affordable. The difference in performance and economy is huge with a boat of this size/weight - particularly if you are going to do any distances.

As others have said the included "options" are nice but really unnessary. I agree. And you can always add stuff yourself later. We had a wonderful broker find us our boat earlier this year, she passed survey with no issues and we LOVE our Sundancer 400. You may be able to find a newer model with diesels (such as the 420) if your budget provides.. I would be glad to give you our broker's name offline if that is helpful. He is located in NC and is nothing short of outstanding.

Good luck with this process - remember it should be fun! Keep us all posted and keep the questions coming! This a wonderful site, and, as you know, there are some very knowledgeable and generous members.
Cheers,
Warren

l
 
I looked on the SR home page to see how much the 40 dancer weighs. There is no 40 listed in 2004, so I assume you are talking about the 42 which weighs 22,000 pounds dry. While I'm a big fan of 8.1s, that is just too much of a boat to be pushed by those engines while enjoying any kind of longivity. As was pointed out, the added HP of the HO 8.1 is produced at high RPMs so the performance claim is mostly hipe. Yes, they will make the right boat go fast, but they do it at the expense of engine life. This 42 foot boat needs diesels.
 
Oh I misread. The new boat is an '06? So the boat becomes a TWO year old boat the moment you sign the papers, before you reach the dock with keys in hand.

I see the point about this being a leftover. I would negotiate on this boat like it was an '06 USED boat. Penalized suitably for having gas engines. I would NOT pay anything like a "new" price for this leftover. Also, this boat has been sitting for a long time. Survey would still be needed, just like any other yard queen with hours that are "low".
 
Thanks to everyone's feedback. First a couple of clarifications:

1. The '04 model is actually a 390 DA, which is exactly the same hull, with different shaped windows.

2. The '06 model is already priced well - $200K below MSRP. When you take a price of $530K and reduce it by $200K, that leaves a pretty attractive price, or do you think I should push a little further?

The boating that I do is on Lake Mead. At most, we'd do about 3 hours of motoring in one outing. The average would be closer to 1 - 1.5 hours. There just aren't that many places to go. Also, gasoline is available at all of the marinas, but diesel isn't available everywhere.

If I was on the East or West coasts, with some offshore passages, I wouldn't even be asking the question. Diesel would surely be the answer. But for a relatively confined freswater lake, gasoline can still make sense.

Your thoughts?

PS: Skip, thanks again for your continued support.
 
$330 seems like too much money: How many hrs are on this boat. Technically it is new until titled but the instant you title this boat it is a two year old boat in terms of market value.

Example 1

Here is an 07 Diesel on Yacht World priced at $340. Probably a fire sale but a good example of the deals that are out there.

40' Sea Ray Sundancer
Year: 2007
Current Price: US$ 399,900
Located In mid state, RI
Hull Material: Fiberglass
Engine/Fuel Type: Twin Diesel
YW# 46546-1747577

Example 2

Yacht world has two gas 06 40DA's for $319 and $339. Assume 10% negotiating room by being patient and given current market conditions = $287 to $305.

You have the upper hand. Boats - specially big gas boats are not selling. I would negotiate hard. Hope these examples help.
 
Jon

Thanks for the info. I found an '06 40 DA with twin diesels in Pompano Beach, FL, with all the goodies for $359K:
- Hardtop
- Cockpit AC
- Bowthruster
- Hydraulic swim platform
- Pewter hull
- Raymarine E120 electronics with autopilot and open array radar
- 3 x flatscreen TVs

It's used and I don't know how many hours, but you would think an offer of 90 - 95% of the purchase price would get it.

Brand new in '06, this would have an MSRP of $610K, so it's already 45% less than its new retail price. Food for thought...
 
At least the 390DA you are getting into the weight range where a pair of 8.1s is feasible. The boat is on the bubble between gas or diesel. You won't get great longevity out of the engines but they should go 2000 hours with proper care and keeping your cruising RPMs at 3550 or less.
 
I test drove a 40 with the 370 hp 8.1's . Had to run about 3800 rpm to cruise at about 20 knots.. I really thought the boat needed diesels. I believe the H.O. 8.1's give up some torque to the 370hp versions. May not be a good trade off.

If you can live with the high RPM, the boat ran nice and was still pretty quiet. I had to use a bit of throttle while docking to get the response I wanted.

All that said, the boat was one of my favorite layouts in the cabin. Good luck with your decision,

Jeff

BadaBoom
 
Go Diesel young man!

You will get better over all performance in cost to own and at resale.

My working guide to value is that a Sea Ray will take a 20% off the showroom
and then 10% a year for the next three years. Thus a 4 YO Sr will fetch about 50% of MSRP if it has been well maintained. If you buy this boat your registration will read the year built and not the model year and for resale it is the YB that will dictate value. The 06 model may well actually be a 05 Build! If so buy it as an 05.

On the dealer boat you're considering. When buying a NEW OldStock boat, it as used no matter what the title says. Why? Because it already has taken additional depreciation and wear and tear. And I think this is important, those engines are not new, they have been sitting unused for years in the dealer showroom or the lot! The hoses, gaskets, seals and iron parts have all taken a lick'n frrom corriosion and time.

It ain't new, its a used boat lightly used and you have to think of it that way. Of course the dealer will attempt to convince you otherwise, but that hull warrnatee started the day it was delivered into the dealers hands. (That is exactly what SR CSR will tell you when you call for claim on hull issues). If you do buy the NOS dealer boat at a price that makes sense for the condition, make and I say again make the Dealer give you two years of extended warrantee .... on Sea Ray/Merc Paper and not a shallow dealer promise.

Comment on inland lake:

Lake Mead is a wonderful lake but has long runs between spots. However, diesel is available and the sense of owning diesel in this size boat is still relevent.

The resale for you boat on Lake Mead will include salt water markets and no one in their right mind would want a gas powed 40 footer for use in ocean access grounds. Soemtimes the all the issues aren't apparent and you need to look in your wake as well off your bow.
 
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Read these threads and listen- Buy a used 420 w/Cummins Power and you got twice the boat than a 390 w/gas. SIMPLE!
 
Think about what you can buy for a used boat with the money saved on purchasing a new one. AND while a blue hull boat looks awesome in pics and dreams, in real life it is gonna be a pain to keep looking good. I have seen a number of blue hulls boats that are already looking shabby. You see every spider web and nick on them. I know how bad boats can start to oxidize and I would NOT want to deal with that in a few years. On the other hand if you plan on moving up in a few years that fade wont matter than don't let that discourage you! Good luck! Your gonna be happy with whatever you get!
 
My buddys selling a 42/44 05 for 385. All the toys and even has the Thrust lift. I dont know if i can post the link but email me and ill email u it .

Rob
 
The same two boats are at my marina. The 390 never leaves the dock but the owner has never complained about the boat being sluggish. The 40 has been used every weekend since purchase and after three weekends, snapped a prop shaft. Sea Ray is paying for replacement of both shafts and realigning the engines. Service says this is a common problem for the 40, but I 've not heard of it.

Both boats are going to use gas, but your environment is not a problem for that. I would have them both surveyed completely. Unless the discount gets deeper and the differential gets less, then I would $90K makes up for a lot of boat polish on the blue hull. The 390 at my dock still looks good after three+ years and yours could too.

Never discount the savings no matter how money you have.

Gene
 
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