New Guy and very angry.....

mj_duell

mj_duell

New Member
Aug 30, 2012
175
Connecticut
Boat Info
2000 330 Express Cruiser
Engines
Twin (380hp) 7.4 Horizon w/ Straight Drives
I have been looking at 310 Sundancers for months. I found the perfect one after many that were not in such good shape. The one I found was in my home state of Connecticut. I loved it so much I told the broker, Bill Biebel at Allied Marine, I would like to make an offer that day, this was two weeks ago. I have cash so I thought this would be a very easy deal. I received a call from the broker the following day stating my offer had been accepted by the seller so I asked him to email me the contract and I would get a deposit of 15 out the next day. The contract arrived and my wife and I signed it after that I went to the bank and wired the deposit. We mailed the paper copy of the contract and also scanned and returned a copy via email. I had communications with the broker about setting up the sea trial and other things and we were all set for this coming Wednesday for the sea trial. My family was very excited and we were all set, cash in hand for the balance. I planned on picking up the boat on Saturday the 15th.

I got a call this morning saying..well we sold the boat to someone else the seller decided he did not like the offer. Now I have a signed offer and they have had my deposit and contract for a week now! I am very very upset about this. they say there is nothing I can do and I just need to deal. I will keep looking but I am now very disillusioned about buying a boat. The businesses selling boats should have more integrity and so should the sellers. I am not going to spend a few grand to force the contract now either as I feel the boat is tainted. Instead I will just warn you to be care when dealing with certain people in this business.

I am sorry this is my first post here. I will do my best to be a little more light hearted in the future. My quest continues, but winter is coming and I do not think I will find a boat in the condition I am looking for that is close enough to see in such a short time. This forum however is giving me a lot of needed knowledge.

--Mike
 
What I learned during boat buying was:

1. Sign the contract - fax a copy with a written and signed cheque.
2. Get sellers signature on contract and get it faxed back
3. Send the deposit cheque or transfer the amount.

But I do not have a single positive thing to say about the broker company I bought through either. I finally got my 310DA TODAY :) but it took me 2 months to find the right one - and then 1 1/2 month to ship it from FL to UAE.
 
That stinks to hear. Try to stay positive. If it wasn't mean to be it wasn't mean to be. That means the next boat you find will be even better. :)
Good luck and keep us posted.
 
I am starting to think you are right. Even if things turned back my way I find that I no longer want that particular boat. Superstitious maybe, seems tainted or something, lol. Anyway, I will continue my search while time permits...maybe go bigger, who knows!
 
[QUOTE maybe go bigger, who knows![/QUOTE]

That's the spirit!!!!:thumbsup:. That sucks with that broker and owner. I'm with you would take that boat for any price now. And I'll be darned if I help that broker make a commission.
 
I can appreciate your feelings, however, you have no legal ground to stand on since you didn't have a valid enforceable contract in place at any time in the process. Furthermore, the broker didn't do anything wrong, except let you make the offer without asking you for a deposit.

For future reference, for a contract to be binding, there must be agreement and consideration on the part of both parties to the deal. The buyer's consideration is the deposit; the sellers consideration is that he takes the boat off the market while you do your due diligence, i.e. surveys, sea trial, etc. The agreement is both parties signing the contract document. You had no binding contract because all you did was make an offer to buy. The seller never agreed to the terms and the consideration didn't accompany the contract. In the future, the process should be:

1. Ask the broker to prepare the contract.
2. You fill in all the terms......i.e. the amount of the offer, the contingencies, the closing date, etc.
3. Add wording to the contract that says "Seller has ±24 hours (but no more than 48) to accept the contract or it becomes null and void.
4. Write a check in the amount of about 10% of the offer and hand the contract and the check to the broker.
5. Shut up.

Now the ball is in the broker's court to make the deal happen. At the end of 24 hours, call the broker and ask for an answer. Accept nothing but a yes or no, and stop payment on the check if you cannot go pick up the executed contract that day.

I am sorry you got the process off to a bad start..........if you need help with the process, some of us have been around a long time and are willing to help. It is a lot easier to understand the process before hand than it is to fix a deal that has gone in the ditch.
 
Maybe being told we have a deal and the seller has agreed where I must be crazy to think it was binding. Either way it's total B.S. no matter how you sling it. The broker dropped the ball. Period and he should have had the contract signed by the seller and also not lead us to believe it was.

I just edited this because I am still angry. You are correct, however... integrity is dead in this business. My first big boat buying experience is now synonymous with buying a used car from a shady dealer. Tonight after the feeling of total loathing for the people involved I will get back to looking and this time directly involve my lawyer on the purchase. I will also heed your advice.
 
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Good advice from Frank. I had a similar experience this past Winter while trying to buy a boat. After two 5 hr round trips to inspect the boat I submitted a 10% deposit ($1000 below asking price) and a signed contract. The seller and broker sold it to someone else the next day. I found out later it sold for what I offered...WTF?

On to next boat a few weeks later. After another couple 5 hr round trips I discovered boat #2 had a dead cylinder on the starboard motor.

Third one was the charm (actually the sellers wife almost grenaded the third deal because she was a total PIA to deal with).

The broker on my third deal was nice but lethargic. I did most of the work and "pushed" the deal at many key junctures.

Take a deep breath and keep looking. Do your homework and thoroughly inspect all systems with special attention to engines.
 
My second boat purchase (of 5) was entertaining, but only when I look back on it. It was a private seller. I looked at the boat and we came to an agreement on the price. We decided to meet at his bank since there was an outstanding loan. I showed - he didn't. According to him, he decided NOT to sell the boat... OK, so I walked. A few days later his son called me saying that his Dad would sell me the boat after all. I said that was fine, but the price just dropped $1000 (the total sale price was under $20G). Dad reluctantly agreed. Can you guess what happened next??

No show again at the bank!! Same thing, he decided NOT to sell it, AGAIN!! A couple of days later his wife calls and says he'll sell the boat to me after all. I say the price just dropped another $1000. The husband/owner calls me back and tries to ream me out. Really??? I let him know that everytime he does his little routine, the price drops an additional $1000.

He then met me at the bank and finally sold it at the reduced price (which was less than his loan), arranged unsecured financing for the remainder, and I left with a great price on a lein free 268 Sundancer. Many suggested that I tell him to stuff it, but I decided to turn lemons into lemonaide. Not bad pay for playing the game.

Food for thought, in case these turkeys call you back with the old story "the other buyer couldn't get financing"...
 
I did a "Buy it Now" on ebay and got hosed when I was told "someone else was coming to pick it up tomorrow", sorry he said....a better and bigger boat came along and I'm happier! Hang in there, Mike.
 
That would be great. What link? I am not seeing one in your post.

Thanks,

Mike
 
Directly involve your Lawyer from the beginning? Its going to be hard to find a broker or seller to take you seriously if you use that approach. With society is litigious as it is, nobody is going to want to deal with you if you are mentioning lawyers from the get-go. Just listen to what Frank said. Its a pretty simple process to buy a boat. Sounds like you found a scumbag broker on your first attempt. Ask on here for recommendations in your area for a broker to represent you as the buyer. Then a fiasco like this would be much less likely to happen.
 
CSR_Admin said:
Directly involve your Lawyer from the beginning? Its going to be hard to find a broker or seller to take you seriously if you use that approach. With society is litigious as it is, nobody is going to want to deal with you if you are mentioning lawyers from the get-go. Just listen to what Frank said. Its a pretty simple process to buy a boat. Sounds like you found a scumbag broker on your first attempt. Ask on here for recommendations in your area for a broker to represent you as the buyer. Then a fiasco like this would be much less likely to happen.
Click to expand...

Well hold on now..Yes, from the beginning. Cash talks and I have it, but next time I will have a signed contract protecting me. If a seller has an issue with that then its they who cannot be trusted. Its a simple matter of making sure everything is done properly and it also relieves me of the burden of chasing down brokers who don't have any morals. I have no intention of filing a lawsuit against good-honest people, but at least the will know I am serious. Maybe if we did not live in a society that simply accepted this behavior with a shoulder shrug things would not have to be this way.
 
I guess I'm missing something here. Frank was saying that the OP did not have a contract but in his opening post the OP stated he had a contract from the broker and that he sent it back with a deposit. Quint stated in his post essentially the same thing. What am I missing?

And I fully agree with Frank's info. I still think the broker and owner are a'holes.
 
I submitted a signed contract and deposit but the seller did not sign it......instead he sold it for same price to someone else. This is after I had made two 5hr round trips to inspect it.

I realize I did not have a binding contract. I just thought it was a crappy way to operate.
 
Quint4 said:
I submitted a signed contract and deposit but the seller did not sign it......instead he sold it for same price to someone else. This is after I had made two 5hr round trips to inspect it.

I realize I did not have a binding contract. I just thought it was a crappy way to operate.
Click to expand...

Exactly. All I am saying is this. If I sign a contract to buy and place a real deposit and then I decide to back out I am liable and should loose my deposit. I want the same protection on the sale from the broker and/or seller. I was foolish to take the brokers word for the condition of the sale and signed acceptance of the offer. Next time I will make sure they cannot just to decide they want to take another offer after I have signed. This is where I believe having my lawyer attain a signed contract from the broker/seller first is prudent. It also gives me leverage if the break the contract. Even though I only lost a small some of money on travel and time looking, I should not have to eat it because some people don't care how they do business.

--Mike
 
Ok thanks. I must have misread how the contracts were being handled. Broker's really an a'hole.
 
I am not quick to defend a broker, but this broker did what most will do if you give them the opportunity. The buyer left the broker with no enforceable contract because there was no consideration. The contract was sent to the seller for agreement after which the buyer sent the deposit. In the meantime, the broker shopped the offer all over hell's half acre on the buyer because he was left that opportunity. Next time, sign the contract with a short but reasonable time limit to prevent the offer being shopped around and give the broker your check (not a credit card) all at the same time. That puts the deal in the seller and his broker's court to either make it happen or not and the buyer is not exposed any longer than his cancellation time period.
 
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