Need some help on which Ray model to get and what is/isn't important

[Zooomer]

Pretty much decided on a Ray, I'd like to spend less than 100k.

I don't wanna deal with a lot of maintenance, won't use it a ton (weekends in the summer which is memorial day to labor day). I want a quiet generator, AC, a good bathroom, room to layout and comfortable sleeping.

My questions are these:

Is it better to get something newer or something larger? I was thinking length in the 30's but that leaves a lot of options.

Pros and cons of gas vs. diesel?

This will be my first boat, any issues with handling a larger boat?

Is there a year in which Searay changed something major that would make me want to for certain get something newer than XXXX year?

 

[HUMPH]

Pretty much decided on a Ray, I'd like to spend less than 100k.

It is pretty easy to spend less than $100K right now. You need to decide how you will use the boat and how much time you will spend on overnight trips. My wife & I started by looking at a 26' Larson and ended up with a 2002 320DA. I am hoping we went through the twofootitus during the searching phase instead of after purchasing.

Good luck!

 

[Rxflyer]

I spent way less than 100K for my boat, and it's my first one. Lucky find. I think you should buy as new as can, to get some warranty. Nothing feels better than hearing 'Your warranty covers it'. Well, nothing you're likely to get from your dealer, anyway..
Gas power is good enough for me, but I don't go that far, yet. Diesels require some specialized maintainance, so be sure someone local is able to do that for you. I like the comfort factor that 2 engines provide, even though it means double the maintainance. There's a steep learning curve, but just take it slow and read the manuals and spend countless hours reading on this forum....If you want a good role model, I do not recommend Rodney Dangerfield in 'Caddyshack'...Good luck in your search !

 

[katricol]

You are going to Have to deal with maintence, whether you do it or you pay someone else to do it. So you might factor that in with your decision. Do you want to trailer the boat or pay to store it somewhere?

 

[Zooomer]

I'll pay a marina to do the in/out and would have a slip (required for a boat this size correct?)

 

[Presentation]

I don't wanna deal with a lot of maintenance....

I spend about 40 hours in the spring cleaning, waxing and prepping then 5 hours a week cleaning and fixing small things.

Zooomer,

Just giving you a ‘ballpark / rough’ rundown on my annual expenses.

I’m doing this so you have a general idea on what a 28’ boat costs to operate:

Annual numbers:

- Slip at a marina with power, water, club house with bathrooms, free self pump-out, parking just under $2,000.

- Winter indoor heated storage just under $2000. Now you can go with outdoor storage for less but then you need to winterize the appropriate systems, you will also need to cover the boat with heat shrink or some other cover and keeping a boat outside in our climate is hard on them. I did the math and having winterization done and outdoor storage would have cost me as much as indoor heated storage so I went this way.

- Routine maintenance $1,500. Some people can do more themselves and save some of this money.

- Insurance $500/year and man, everyone tells me they pay more than me.

- Fuel $3,000/year – this will vary widely depending on how much you use the boat.

- Repairs $2,000 year. You’d like to think nothing will break. Things break. You may go a couple of years then bang, something happens.

- Depreciation: $10,000/year. This is a hard one to take. Its larger then I expected it would be but it is what it is.


Total = $21,000/year.

It’s a damn expensive hobby.

 

[sprink56]

I would start with a late '80s to late '90s 30'-40' Sundancer,Express or Sedan Bridge. Go on the boats...see which style fits your needs. Then start narrowing it down to a few models and focus in on those. Go to searay,com and look at the model archives and brochures. Boat US publishes a used boat guide that is model specific. I think one was posted here not too long ago on this forum...do a search and you will find it.

As far as gas vs diesel...depends on the boat and how you intend to use it. As you approach 38'~40' in these boats the diesel advantage becomes clear because of the gross weight of the boat....more available torque to move the boat. In the smaller boats you will not have that option available. For example: My 390 had strong 7.4 gasoline re-powers and performed reasonably well. Good choice for occasional use and short trips. As I found myself doing more and more long range cruising and more often, it became obvious that I was going to be spending tons of money on gasoline and never experience the performance that the same boat with diesels will enjoy.

You have come to the right place to educate yourself on these boats. We can all help you with questions and suggestions. You are also in Michigan which is a very popular boating area with lots of boats to choose from.

Good luck.:thumbsup:

 

[sbw1]

Where in Michigan are you located?

 

[hack4alivin]

It all depends on how you plan to use your boat. Do you have kids that will want to go wakeboarding or skiing? (DA280 would be a great boat for this) OR are you just a couple that are looking for a cruiser to spend the weekends exploring (DA320 or 340). That has to factor into you decision and you really need to put some though into it. In our case we started with one thing in mind and very quickly found a new lifestyle in boating and upgraded boats quickly, not the best economic move!

Pres make a very important point, after purchase expenses on a boat come with the territory and they don’t go away, so make sure you factor them into your budget and decision. His numbers are a good starting point.

 

[320Bob]

Like you I too am a new boater with a only few months of boating at the end of this past season. As you can see I am on my third boat. The reasons for going with the 320 were the desire for more room, inboards, the loan interest is tax deductible and it's a great time to buy a used boat. I have and will leave my boat in a slip. Sea Ray was one of the very few brands that offered inboards (V Drives) in express boats under 36 feet that I could afford.

In my research, which has been confirmed on this forum, twin V Drives are easier to maneuver for docking compared with outdrives. Docking is one of the challenges a new boater has to master. Having separate controls for gear shifting and throttles are one of reasons along with having more weight forward versus on the back of the boat. So along with all of the other good advice offered in the posts above, choosing your drive system is another consideration. There are pros and cons to both, so you will have to decide which is best for you. There are a number of threads that discuss this issue and I gave you the rationale for my choice.

 

[Zooomer]

I'm in Grand Rapids and plan on slipping my boat in Grand Haven. I'll use it probably 10-12 weekends and make one trip possibly to WI.

I don't have kids and i'm not married. I like to party and don't like 'roughing it'. I don't like sleeping on boats with cushions for a bed or a strange shape where it's hard to get comfortable. I'm 6' 1". That's why I'm thinking 34' may be minimum??

I would get a powerboat but I want the comforts of home and I don't want to spend 20k a year breaking parts and burning through gas to brag about how fast I went. It's tempting and I love the look but it seems like $ is more wisely spent on a cruiser.

The bathroom is important to me. So is the AC and having a boat that's quiet when it needs to be and doesnt' stink if I have to idle it. I like partying tied up to other boats and being able to get out of the sun and relax below if I want. I want a bathroom that works as close to a home one as possible. This is why I was asking about years. I'm wondering if the head is vasting improved starting at a certain year.

I'm into cars and I know that a lot of cool features come about in newer models. I'd like a 2000 or newer and heard the hulls changed in 2000, not sure if that's true. Seems like a higher payment with less maintenance is a good idea. I don't want a great deal on a boat only to have to spend 10 grand fixing it each year and wasting my weekends messing with it over using it.

 

[hack4alivin]

Zoomer,

First of all it is not the 20K in “fixing the boat” that you will have to budget for. It is more like the 5K a year in fuel cost, 2 to 3K in slip fees, 1K for insurance, 2K for winterizing and storage fees. So we are all ready over 10 and have not had a single maintenance issue, real lucky this year. The boat is going to cost you money after the purchase and if you have not budgeted for that you are going to get very frustrated quickly. BTW, the figures go up with the size of the boat as well. Just as an example in my two seasons with my 320 I have spend an average of 7 grand each season just in gas. That was compared to the 2 thousand I spent with the 280 with a single 496, bigger boat, two engines, twice the maintenance, twice the fuel.

I am not trying to talk you out of anything here, but the best advice I can give anyone looking into a boat is be prepared for the cost of ownership.

Good luck in your decision.

 

[quality time]

The reality is that you are going to have to do or pay for maintenance whether you buy an '87 or '07. Maintenance is what you do to keep the repair costs down...hopefully. Also, maintenance is not covered under warranty. Ideally a single engine would be less maintenance than twins but since you are looking for a comfortable space below decks for your 6' frame a mid 20 footer is out. A late 90's 330 would be a good boat and can be gotten for around $60K.

 

[Redhook98]

I am partial to the look and experience of the Amberjacks myself. They are a little more utilitarian, but is some respects a little better then the DA's. They carry more fuel and utilize space differently. The interiors can be just as nice, but maybe a little smaller. I would recommend finding a diesel powered 340 AJ. Maybe a 2000-2001.

 

[quality time]

I would recommend finding a diesel powered 340 AJ. Maybe a 2000-2001.

Based on his usage, I don't think diesel is justifiable. Especially for a first time boat owner, gotta love getting those $5K preventative maintenance bills... Also, I'm not sure that boat can be had for under $100K. I do however think that is a neat boat with CATS.

 

[mhtimber]

Now is a great time to buy a boat!

My input largely echoes many of the other replies, so I'll only add the recommendation to look on the larger side as changing boats has always been an expensive proposition and in this market it's probably very difficult to do.

In our area many dealers are not taking trades because their floor plan financing no longer makes it feasible for them and selling a boat is of course very difficult if not impossible right now.

Also, bear in mind that while $100K or less will go a long way if you go older, larger, or fire-sale you're also looking at some very significant repair / maintenance bills.

If you are going the cruiser route I would avoid I/Os at all costs, all manufacturers.

 

[Zooomer]

Now is a great time to buy a boat!

My input largely echoes many of the other replies, so I'll only add the recommendation to look on the larger side as changing boats has always been an expensive proposition and in this market it's probably very difficult to do.

In our area many dealers are not taking trades because their floor plan financing no longer makes it feasible for them and selling a boat is of course very difficult if not impossible right now.

Also, bear in mind that while $100K or less will go a long way if you go older, larger, or fire-sale you're also looking at some very significant repair / maintenance bills.

If you are going the cruiser route I would avoid I/Os at all costs, all manufacturers.

THanks for the advice. If it meant a better long term investment and less repair costs, I would be willing to spend over 100. Also if the larger boats depreciate less, it would be something to consider. I don't think fuel will be 7k based on my usage but I understand slip and storage is going to be 5k annually give or take.

What do you mean by avoiding IO's? As apposed to what? Why is that setup bad?

 

[Presentation]

What do you mean by avoiding IO's? As apposed to what? Why is that setup bad?

Just off the top of my head:
I/O’s or Stern drives

Advantages
- Much more room inside the boat. All the drive stuff is outside of the boat. The boat designers may put this extra space in the engine compartment or cabin or both.
- Much better fuel economy, as much as 30%
- Better acceleration and much higher top end speed
- Ability to trim up the drive and physically get out and walk the boat into very shallow water for anchoring and general lounging. This is great if you have small kids or like to hang out in a shallow area.
- May be a less expensive initial investment, Aphla's are low cost, Bravo's - still less but its getting closer.

Disadvantages
- Corrosion, corrosion, corrosion. You need to keep on top of the maintenance. Keep it painted, replace the anodes at lease every 12 months of use or more, make sure you use the correct type of anodes for your area. Make sure you check it often. If you have a issue, get on it or get help.
- There are hoses, rubber bellows and oil lines in the water which can be damaged. Check them regularly (annually) and replace when needed. If you don’t know how to do this, have it done for you or risk sinking. Bellows last about 3 to 5 years.
- Maintenance – have the drives removed, greased, check alignment, and tighten the gimbals’.
- You can do everything correct, never hit bottom and still have expensive repairs.
- Some people feel its harder to dock with sterndrives then inboards.


Alternatives to I/O’s are traditional inboards:

- V-drives, a trade off that has the engine turned around backward in the engine compartment. The drive is in the shape of the letter "V." This costs you about 4 feet.

- Straight drives, the most reliable but they take up a lot of room, I mean like 6 to 12 feet before the engine.





In the general size boat you have been discussing, the low 30 foot range cruiser, you can generally get either sterndrive (I/O) or V drives.


BTW: Please don’t take this the wrong way, your above question has shown us that you need education.
I highly recommend you close your checkbook and read, study and learn.

 

[northern]

We have owned 2 boats one a 28 foot with twin stern drive and the one we have now. A boat is not an investment it is a toy and will need work. We went to the Seattle Boat show in September and a dealer had a 28 or 30 foot new Sea Ray for 100K I felt it was a good deal. If I was to buy a new boat I would have got that one as it comes with a warantee. Used you fix you pay. A general rule of thumb is maintenance is 10 to 20% of new value a year. If you do work yourself you save a bit. I budjet 5,000 a year for maintenance, 10,000 for fuel we do 300 hours a year, 5000 for moorage, 2,000 for insurance. In all it is costly. With the 28 footer it was an older boat and maintenance was 3,000 a year. I figure it costs about $80 an hour to run the boat. Ownig a smaller boat to start is a good idea as you find out what you like and don't. Good Luck

 

[boughtabouy]

Does maintenance really have to be so expensive? I changed my own oil last week and saved about $600 in a couple hours. That's a savings of $300/hour...tax free. Tranny's took another 2 hours. Not sure how much I saved there. My point...I think 10-20 % is a little much to budget for. Give the oil change a try and you'll never pay for another one.

K-