Need real good advice on a 1998 400 w/3116 diesels

zielke

zielke

Member
Jul 8, 2009
80
West Coast Wisconsin - LaCrosse.
Boat Info
1998 400DA
Engines
3116-caterpillars
Looking at a 1998 400 Sundance with 3116 cats, with 1200 hrs. This is a 2nd owner boat since 2004. Owners are getting out of boating (in his 70's) the boat has been in his heated garage since 2010. Boat is freshwater, Lake Michigan all its life. He hauls it out every year to his home, 110 miles away. I'm 110 miles from the boat & water in the other direction. First time owning diesels, what do I look for? ask for? and expect to close this deal? Any and all help would be great. Im going from a 1990 310 with gas to (hopefully) to this 400. The boat has been for sale since 2011. Its priced aggressive for a diesel, has full & updated electronic with cherry interior. Beautiful boat.
 
Basically look for how it was maintained and have a good surveyor for the boat come check everything out. A must is to have a Certified Caterpillar Mechanic do a complete engine survey in the water. That will be the deciding factor in my opinion. That boat is the predescessor to my 410DA. Nice layout and a very functional boat. If you have a good deal on this and the survey shows it in good shape, buy it!
 
That is the way to do it. Frank will be able to provide the most helpful advice.
 
Ok, went and looked at the boat. Even took oil samples from both motors & genny. Boat shows some wear, but what do I expect for a 15 yr. old boat. This gentleman (and he was) used this boat cruising the great lakes since 2001. He paid $269K for this boat back in 2001. The boat motors looked great, Very clean. He has updated all the electrical, in the engine hatchs. Running 8 batteries + new pro charger. I sent oil samples yesterday. I will know by Friday. Anything else? please let me know! thanks.
 
8 batteries?! wow. How did he fit them in, and why? Is there an inverter?

Expect to find a evidence of a leak in the top of the L-shaped fresh water tank. An inspection plate under port-fwd cushion of the mid-berth can show you some history.

It's time for hull & deck surveys.
 
Who ever does the survey, you want someone who has and knows how to use a Thermal Imaging camera. They are light years ahead of thumping with a hammer. The blue is moisture.

356484314.jpg
 
When I talk to surveyors, I have yet to find one that does thermal imaging and is cross referenced with references. I thought this tech sounded like an advancement in detection, but I hear differing reports. Like being blown off as a gadget. I really would like to know more about it. I can't imagine the equipment is cost prohibitive. This tech is coming down in price and if it worked well would be well worth the investment.
 
Just providing my 2 cents as I have no dog in this fight. I don't think it's any more a fad the FLIR is. This fellow surveys everything from my boat to megayachts and also does commercial vessels. Depending on how fancy you want to get, the equipment can run from $6K to $20K for an off the shelf decent model.

The military them and uses them to ID hidden targets. I can't fathom what that costs!

Medicine used them.


Cardio vascular issues?

thermal-imaging-disease-medical.jpg

Energy audits are conducted with them to determine heat loss and ways to fix it.



It's pretty obvious where the water is in the hull (blue) in the pic i provided. Check this out and tell me the odds on whacking the exact spot with a hammer.

356484305.jpg



A properly running Turbo
368446088.jpg

A Merc Riser
368446086.jpg


Two hot spots. Good or bad? Metal fatugue?

369165111.jpg

I love tecky stuff.....just cannot afford it!

All I'm saying is from a boating perspective, more information the consumer is armed with, the better the bargaining position and and less emotional the decision becomes on what you are willing to live with or not.

HTH
 
zielke

I would ask for and examine all receipts and maintenance records they have available. A lot can be determined by the records an owner keeps. Has the boat been used regularly in recent years? We bought our fresh water 99 about 3 years ago and love it. Let me know if you have any specific questions. Good luck!
 
If the hull number is SERF then the hull has no balsa and is solid, from what I understand so little worry about water intrusion other than maybe some blisters but even those are uncommon.

maintenance history on engines and running gear is important to both you and surveyor.

the Norcold refers are crap so plan to replace.

like someone said there are common problems with the water tanks so inspect carefully. The carpet in the mid cabin if stained is an indicator.

look carefully at the port gear as they have a history of failure. Take oil samples of both the gears. They are identical but as the port runs against the counter shaft is is stressed higher than the starboard.

the Westerbeke is bullet proof but if abused or not maintained is really expensive to repair

plan on a complete engine and heat exchanger flush and rod if not done in the last eight or so years. The coolant tends to gel and will inhibit heat transfer.

survey closely the grounding and bonding system, if in good maintenance will be a good indicator of the health of the wetted metal parts.
 
Boat Guy said:
ttmott, can you confirm the hull / balsa core issue?

It's my understanding balsa was used on sides and deck, but not on bottom up until '99.
Click to expand...

No balsa in the 400DA and EC hulls from the MI Plant (SERF). The 400's ran from 97 thru 2000. That is also reiterated in various posts on this site. Wood in the decks however. I will say however I don't know about the transom.
 
ttmott said:
No balsa in the 400DA and EC hulls from the MI Plant (SERF).
Click to expand...

The "F" of SERF is Merrrit Island Florida. They used balsa in that plant. The safe assumption is to assume that it IS cored, then confirm the layup and production details by calling SeaRay with the HIN.
 
What difference does it make?

Does a cored hull mean that he should not buy a pristine older freshwater boat kept in heated indoor storage?

Besides, there is far more risk of core damage on decks than the hull anyway........and cored decks are used on almost every Sea Ray no matter where or when they were produced.
 
A cored hull requires more due diligence during the survey than does a solid hull. The storage location is completely irrelevant in regards to integrity of the hull.
 
When I bought my 99 400 DA my surveyor, who was a retired Sea Ray engineer, checked with Sea Ray and also concurred that SERF 400DA boats made in Merritt Island Florida did not have balsa in the hull.

Knowing the Maintenance History is a big issue. When I bought mine I did not know the maintenance history and so I did ALL the maintenance required from the beginning of the boat so that I would have a baseline. Its a good way to learn about the boat, but take a lot of time and money.

It's a wonderful boat, and you will love the diesel engines. Ditch the analog tachs and get Aetna Digital tachs. Use only Cat Filters, the Cat SAEO engine oil and the Cat Extended Life Coolant. It would be good to check that the owner did the same.

Good Luck.

Pete
 
Guys, I think the op stated it's getting a bit off topic. I understand why it would go from the Cats to other items, as the issues pertain to a good survey. I will keep this brief as the OP knows I'm basically in the same "boat" as him....

Pete, depending on your hull number, you might be correct. According to SR they made a spec change and replaced balsa with coremat starting with 605-99. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but just providing information the OP and others might find helpful. - If I hear differently, I'll post the info.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,117
Messages
1,426,450
Members
61,032
Latest member
Brock340
Back
Top