NADA Values

Discussion in 'Ask the Broker' started by C-SIDE, Jun 16, 2016.

  1. C-SIDE

    C-SIDE Member

    313
    Sep 6, 2009
    Michigan City, IN
    2001 340 Sundancer
    6.2L w/ genny
    Was in boating about 6 years ago and looking to get back into it. I've been looking at boats and comparing the asking prices to the value on NADA. Just curious to know how accurate NADA boat values are. I'm noticing huge differences (as high as 25%) between what NADA says and what boat asking prices are.

    Thoughts?
    Chris
     
  2. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    I don't find NADA to be a very accurate price guide on the purchasing side. Their data is better suited for lenders since it is generally conservative. A much better price guide for you as a purchaser is to get a broker to search "soldboats.com" for the boat you are considering. Soldboats is owned by yachtworld.com, which is subscription based and why you need a member broker to search it for you. Their data comes from reported selling prices by member brokers and I have found it to be reliable and dependable.

    However, and this is a big "HOWEVER" for used boat shoppers……. condition means a lot in terms of value. If you scan sold boat prices for all of the examples of a particular model that is 5 years old or older, you will see the values fluctuate as much as 50%. That isn't to say that published boat prices are wrong or inaccurate, but it does highlight how important a boat's maintenance history, mechanical and cosmetic condition and its location are in pegging a true value. The answer to this is to see a lot of different boats and become familiar with what is out there and what "Excellent"" and "Clean" really mean in terms of value. A couple of times a year, we get a CSR member who insists that he is too busy or is too important to take a few vacation days to go look at a boat himself. They commit sight unseen and trust a surveyor they have never met and haven't interviewed to be their eyes on the ground. More times that not, that ends up in Capt. Too Busy posting 1000 questions about how to repair his this or that because he bought a dog in poor condition. The message here is: Condition is never mentioned in price guides, and a boat's condition is critical when valuing it and you can only determine that if you go see it and several more like it yourself.

    Good luck shopping………….
     
  3. C-SIDE

    C-SIDE Member

    313
    Sep 6, 2009
    Michigan City, IN
    2001 340 Sundancer
    6.2L w/ genny
    Thank you Frank. Sounds like NADA is best used as a data point, and not the bible. Didn't know soldboats.com existed so this is great info to have.

    I'm not the type of guy to purchase a boat without looking at it - can't believe folks out there do that, wow!

    Thanks again!
    Chris
     
  4. Leardriver

    Leardriver Member

    143
    May 24, 2016
    Denver, CO
    2004 270 Sundeck 8.1 Bravo III
    5.0, 5.7, 6.2 8.1 Bravo III over the years
    No where in NADA does it ask about hours. Here in Colorado, for a nice fresh water low hour boat, Stored indoors when not in use, take the NADA and double it. For a high hour salt water boat, you can't even abandon it.
     
  5. Bob & Sue

    Bob & Sue Active Member

    Jun 3, 2011
    Browns Point Tacoma WA
    Sold 1999 270DA Sundancer
    5.7l Mercuiser
    I would disagree with this statement for several reasons.
    Would you purchase a 2000 Sea Ray 260 fresh water boat, raw water cooled engine with 200 hours on it with no maintenance records over a 2000 Sea Ray 260 salt water boat with full fresh water cooled engine with 1000 hours on it with full documented maintenance records?

    200 hours for 15 years = 13.33 hours a year
    1000 hours for 15 years =66.66 hours a year

    The 200 hour a year boat in my opinion is like any mechanical item it has sat for probably most of its life without using it all sorts of items deteriorate fuel tank, all hoses, water tank & heater element, moisture in the engine & drive oil etc.

    The 1000 hour with documented upkeep like oil & drive oil changes, riser inspection or replacement, hoses & clamps changed as needed would be my choice to purchase.

    Boats are made to be in both fresh and salt water if maintained well there is no difference in it's value.

    Just my opinion it's up to the buyer to decide what his or her needs are.
     
  6. FootballFan

    FootballFan Well-Known Member

    Jun 20, 2012
    Florida
    Marquis 59
    MTU Series 60
    I have mixed feelings about soldboats.com.

    A couple of factors that I think about - I don't think there is a requirement for a broker to enter a sale - so you get a sampling - not every model of that boat which has sold. And I wonder sometimes how accurate the selling price is. Recently was doing some research, a boat which I had previously been on in person with the selling broker. Subsequently the boat had sold and the selling price in soldboats was 15-20% was higher than the boat was listed at several months prior. Granted - this was a pig of a boat - wondering if the broker really wanted to disclose the actual selling price -or just took the price of the last boat sold and plugged it in.

    The above said, I think soldboats has a built in correcting mechanism to reflect more accurate pricing when there is a high velocity of a specific model which is changing hands. If you are looking at a model which has 10,20 + sales in a year its probably a pretty good metric. If there are 2-5 of the boats which change hands in a year, I get kinda iffy on soldboat pricing.

    For certain boats, where velocity in the market is high, I think soldboats can be a viable data point.

    My approach, start tracking via yachtworld and other sites boats that are listed. Don't forget to monitor the MarineMax site - huge volumes of Sea Ray boats go through that site.

    Over time you can start to profile listing prices, whether that model of a boat are moving.

    You don't have selling price, or survey resolution numbers - but estimating that off of a proven list price over several boats can be a reasonableness test.

    Mark
     
  7. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    But.......

    There is some data from soldboats.com and even sales info published by brokers (like Denison in Fla) that is useful in interpreting what is reported. Days on the market is indicative of both condition and demand. Location tends to filter out "average busting" numbers y imputing results. For example if you see 4 Florida 48D's sell in the high $300's and one in Arkansas sell for $475K, it is a fair assumption that the Ark boat is low time, was run on LOTO exclusively and is a pristine freshwater boat. If you use a pure average and are shopping in a coastal area, then your average isn't going to accurately represent what you should pay for a coastal boat. Finally, the differential between listing price and sales price is important because it tells you what a broker has likely told his seller to expect. That gives you kind of like a "support price" for a boat......i.e. the price the seller expects kind of hardens him at that level and is sometimes difficult to break thru.....very much like a stock that has support at $XX/share.

    It is fun to bat these theories around and can be used to basically see if a boat you are interested in is affordable for you. However, in the final analysis 3 things ultimately control what that boat will eventually sell for:

    1. Its condition,

    2. How bad the seller needs to sell the boat, and

    3.Your ability to negotiate.
     
  8. Stee6043

    Stee6043 Well-Known Member

    Jun 1, 2015
    West Michigan
    1997 Sundancer 400
    7.4L Gassers
    Check with your lender if you plan to finance the boat. All of the above is good advice but what your lender requires may be all that really matters depending on your situation.

    My credit union used the NADA guide as the only basis for valuing my boat. Based on the tight correlation I'm also guessing my surveyor uses NADA to value boats on his surveys...
     
  9. kvduff

    kvduff Member

    188
    Jun 22, 2011
    Northport ny
    CeTrick - 2006 320 da 6.2 mpi, v-drives, Raymarine c80 chart plotter/radar
    mercruiser 6.2 mpi mx horizon
    I think another important component in price fluctuations/differences within regions or the same region has a lot to do with how much an owner may need to pay off an existing loan. There is no reasonable explanation as to why the same model of boat can differ by 50k salt or fresh water...



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. C-SIDE

    C-SIDE Member

    313
    Sep 6, 2009
    Michigan City, IN
    2001 340 Sundancer
    6.2L w/ genny
    This is why this site is so valuable - the knowledge of its members!

    I live in Chicago and inventory is pretty low. In fact its real low. Specifically, I'm looking at 290's in the low 40's. I've asked 2 seperate sales people if they could provide me with historial sales data. Both totally ignored that request so I'm guessing that info will be very difficult to get my hands on.

    What I plan to do is track asking price and hours in excel along with nada values. Also, when I find the boat I like, I'm assuming the salesperson would provide me with some guidance on motivation of seller and maybe selling price.

    Thanks again!
    Chris
     
  11. FootballFan

    FootballFan Well-Known Member

    Jun 20, 2012
    Florida
    Marquis 59
    MTU Series 60
    Geography can play a big part.

    If you are looking at a 320SD on a freshwater lake, that can be easily moved.

    If you are looking at a 50ish ft Flybridge on the same lake - moving is not as easy.

    I am shopping currently. I am ok if I find what we want anywhere from Houston to Maine. Not everyone is ok with that, they want a boat close.

    All different scenarios, based on what kind a boat, How mobile is the boat, and what is the buyers tolerance for moving the boat.
     
  12. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    I wouldn't assume that, he's not working for you. If he's a good salesman the only guiding will be of you... right to a top dollar price.
     
  13. C-SIDE

    C-SIDE Member

    313
    Sep 6, 2009
    Michigan City, IN
    2001 340 Sundancer
    6.2L w/ genny
    @Woody - you're right and duly noted!
     
  14. Fletch

    Fletch New Member

    8
    Oct 22, 2017
    1997 Crownline 225
    5.7
    Can’t find soldboats.com, r they still up and running?
     
  15. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    Soldboats.com is a members only site. Only brokers with a yachtworld.com account can access it.
     
  16. Fletch

    Fletch New Member

    8
    Oct 22, 2017
    1997 Crownline 225
    5.7
    Thanks for the reply!

    Can anyone give me fair market value of a 2003 Sundancer 280,450 hrs, with generator?
    Thx ahead of time!
     

Share This Page

Show Sidebar