Looking for a 450/460 DA with hydraulic swim platform

Discussion in 'Newbie Lounge - NEW' started by MJ Anchors, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. MJ Anchors

    MJ Anchors New Member

    6
    Jan 31, 2018
    boatless
    TBD
    looking for our next boat and Sundancer with Hydraulic swim platform is our focus.
    1995-2004 range preferably fresh water. We will use this boat as a weekend boat on the Mississippi/St Croix rivers in Minnesota. I have a 50’ slip.
    If you know of a great boat in nice condition please let me know.
    Thanks
    Mike
     
  2. midexp

    midexp New Member

    22
    Oct 5, 2016
    Harrison Township, Michigan Lake St.Clair
    1999 40' Sundancer
    454 merc
  3. MJ Anchors

    MJ Anchors New Member

    6
    Jan 31, 2018
    boatless
    TBD
  4. Strecker25

    Strecker25 Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    1998 290 Sundancer
    Twin 5.7EFI/Alphas, Kohler 4kw
  5. MJ Anchors

    MJ Anchors New Member

    6
    Jan 31, 2018
    boatless
    TBD
    That is about 1,300 truck miles. My range is Great Lakes area or 600/700 mile radius of Minneapolis. At 700 miles the transport cost is around $5K. Not including pulling, launching, prep and shrink wrapping.

    Maybe someone on CSR with a gem is thinking about selling their 450/460? If so, please let me know.

    Thanks!
     
  6. Blkbird

    Blkbird Member

    201
    Jul 5, 2010
    Lake Lanier, GA
    1997 Sea Ray 450 Sundancer
    Twin 3126 CATS
    +1
     
  7. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    Lots of Sea Ray owners are brand loyal.
    Stop by the closest MarineMax, find a salesperson your comfortable with or who comes recommended, let them know what you’re looking for.
    They probably deal in more Sea Rays than anyone and have access to boats that are coming in on trade or as brokerage boats across the country through their internal computer system.
    That’s how I got mine and they were great to deal with.
    I live in NY, had a salesman from NJ keeping an eye out for me for about 6 months. He stayed in touch when things he thought might be of interest came to his attention internally. He called one evening about a 410 he saw that was coming in on trade up in Northeast Ct. and now I own that boat. It never made it to their website, Yachtworld, or Boatrader. I had a hold deposit on it before they even had the title or closed the deal on the guys next boat.
     
  8. MJ Anchors

    MJ Anchors New Member

    6
    Jan 31, 2018
    boatless
    TBD
    JVM225 - Thanks for the recommendation. My interest in hiring a broker to find a boat is neutral. I am focused on buying a 450DA or 460DA. I don't mind working with the sellers broker at all, they will earn their commission.

    The topic "Our Dream has come True" by bbwhitejr highlights some of the experiences I had last year, but I did not end up with a boat.

    My post to CSR is an attempt to find that special boat that is not yet listed or nudges someone into selling that well cared for 450/460. I check Boattrader, Yachtworld and craigslist daily.

    I missed a CSR members 450 in La Crosse a couple of weeks ago... So, I hope theres another soon.

    Thanks,
     
  9. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    I recently helped another CSR member find a 450. I don't intend to discourage you, but when looking at 20 year old boats, finding a week cared for example is really hard. I think this guy looked at 5 within reasonable freight or running distance and struck out because the condition as not as represented by the broker or the posted photos.

    450's are wonderful boats and were easy to maintain, but you have to do the maintenance. I know….I have the boat you are looking for (it is not for sale) and most owners don't do what is required to keep their boats pristine. It costs a lot in terms of cash and work to keep an older boat in like-new condition and most owners don't or won't do it.

    Both the 450 and 460 have cored decks. The hatches must be removed and rebedded before about year 7, the windlass cut out must be resin sealed if the windlass is ever removed for repair of service, The oval post light must be removed and resealed before year 10. The windshield mounting screws must be removed and resealed.

    Both boat have cored hulls, the 450 hulls stay dry unless the boat has docking lights mounted below the rub rail or if there has been some physical damage to the hull somewhere. The 460 has its bilge vents cut into the hull below the rub rail and the opening is not resin sealed. The 450 hull vents are in solid glass above the rubs rail and they don't need any maintenance. The 460 vents need to be removed and resealed about every 5-6 years or rainwater will enter the cored structure around the hull vent.

    The last point worth making is that 1/2 the boats we looked at we offered for sale with old photos and the insight inspection led to a disappointment and day of wasted effort and travel. Look for date stamps on photos or ask enough question about condition that you can verify that the broker has seen the boat and is accurately describing when he is trying to sell you.

    Don't give up and expect this boat search to last many months. Be ready to react when a decent prospect comes on the market.

    Good luck………...
     
  10. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    To add some of my general experience gained by shopping for about a year to what Frank said:
    I started out looking for an 2002-2004 380 in late 2015 then shifted gears to a 410 of that era.
    I closed on my boat in December of 2016.
    Frank was a great help and an incredible source of information when I was going through the inspection and survey process.
    I looked at more 380’s than 410’s. Most boats were for sale by the owner and some were listed with brokers.
    What I found was lots of neglected maintenance, non functioning switches and buttons, outdated electronics, very poor cosmetics due to not keeping up with general cleaning, and a lot of owners who owed more on their boats than they were worth.
    I was pretty shocked at what I saw. It was very discouraging.
    Boats require a lot of money and attention. Not all boat owners have enough of both.
    I tell people that buying the boat is easy, keeping it is the hard part.
    A 15 or 20 year boat that is in great condition is going to be really hard to find. They’re out there, but you are going to need all the help you can get to find one.
    I was lucky enough to encounter an energetic salesman who acted as my broker. He quickly got a sense of what I expected and wasn’t afraid to work hard to help me find the right boat. He also knew that I was aggressively looking and was motivated to find me something before I found one myself.
    The boat I intitially called him about wasn’t for me. He quickly understood why. Asked me what I was looking for and offered to stay on top of an ongoing search. He stayed in touch and called me whenever he thought there was something worth talking about. He really did a lot of the legwork with making phone calls, getting photos and getting the kind of details I was looking for about perspective boats.
    If during your search you encounter a salesman or broker that you click with and is ambitious, it may pay to give him your phone number and agree to stay in touch with him.
    Honestly, in the end, it was a bargain because it really didn’t cost me anything extra.
    If anything, I think I got a slightly better deal overall than I would have gotten on my own. The salesman knew me by the time we got to the negotiating stage. He knew that I was a sincere buyer and how far I would or would not go. He dealt with the listing salesman on my behalf. I think it really helped.
    I wouldn’t discourage you from looking at boats listed by private sellers, but my experience was much better with brokers/salespeople.
     
  11. MJ Anchors

    MJ Anchors New Member

    6
    Jan 31, 2018
    boatless
    TBD
    JVM225 and fwebster - thank you for the detail!

    I am looking at this one tomorrow with my wife, it does NOT have hydraulic lift. I have looked at it and everything seems original (old) but the engine room looked clean. In my opinion it would need new canvas, new cockpit carpet, maybe cockpit vinyl, buff/wax and bottom paint.. Not to mention the items fwebster pointed out, which I will look at too.

    http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1998-sea-ray-450-sundancer-103158549/

    Thanks!
     
  12. midexp

    midexp New Member

    22
    Oct 5, 2016
    Harrison Township, Michigan Lake St.Clair
    1999 40' Sundancer
    454 merc
    Yes I know. I called my buddy and he made it sound like maybe not so. I would call Platinum and ask for Billy. I hear a lot of comments about so many used boats being in bad condition. This boat is professionally maintained. Gelcoat in great shape and the owner has all the Cat maintenance records. From my perspective, the 46 is much nicer than the 45 (don't kill me 45 owners). I just bought a 40 DA and one reason I did not consider the 45 is because you can't stand up at the helm of the 45 - big problem for me. And I'm not necessarily tall. Go with the 46.
     
  13. NotHerDecision

    NotHerDecision Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor GOLD Sponsor

    912
    Jun 28, 2016
    Houston, Texas
    2001 Sea Ray 460 Sundancer
    2014 Seadoo 155 LTD
    2105 Seadoo 130 SE
    2013 Mercury Dinghy
    Cummins 6CTA 8.3L
    I have a 460 and can offer about any advice you need but... I’m a big fan of the 450 because of the storage it offers over the 460. The listing above actually has many of the updates before Searay went to the 460. Newer layout with galley on the starboard, cherry interior, new helm controls... the engine room looks fairly nice...

    I with Frank on this though. These boats are 20 years old and the pictures are often old or just misrepresented. Also don’t forget that most of these boats need hoses and clamps on both engines, new electronics, and have some level of deferred maintenance. It’s no cheap date when you start doing the math so be cautious of saying you want new canvas before you get the deferred maintenance in check.

    All in all looks great for a fresh water boat. Let me know if you need help, I have learned a ton about these boats the past 2 years! Good luck in your search!

    Josh
     
  14. MJ Anchors

    MJ Anchors New Member

    6
    Jan 31, 2018
    boatless
    TBD
    The 450 we looked at was disappointing. She has sat for 4-5 years without much use or maintenance, according to the broker, other than winterizing and it showed. No maintenance records to review.. Everything appeared original.

    Found a 460 - that looks nice but it has moisture around the port bilge vent. The owner is getting an estimate on repair on a few 20" x 3" area. Do these repairs provide a suitable fix to such problems? What is the approximate cost of repairing an area that size? Once I would get the boat I could perform the suggested repairs Frank pointed out.

    I really appreciate all of the info you've shared and that I have found on this site!

    Thank you!!

    Not discouraged and the search continues.
     
  15. NotHerDecision

    NotHerDecision Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor GOLD Sponsor

    912
    Jun 28, 2016
    Houston, Texas
    2001 Sea Ray 460 Sundancer
    2014 Seadoo 155 LTD
    2105 Seadoo 130 SE
    2013 Mercury Dinghy
    Cummins 6CTA 8.3L
    The hull moisture can be repaired but you want it done at a well respected marina who is familiar with these types of repairs. This is nothing to sneeze at.
     

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