Looking at 2001 240 SunDeck; thoughts?

ghengis86

New Member
Apr 9, 2018
20
Boat Info
Boatless...for now
Engines
boatless...for now
So, after using the family boat for a few years, and with a larger family now, it's time I buy my own. I've grown up with power and sailboats, am fairly handy and have been researching Sea Ray's and I/O maintenance (here and other places). I'm settling into the 21-27ft range, 1998-2005 year and trying to land around $20k. I've seen '97, 21ft with 900+ hours for $10k and 2004, 26ft with 400 hours for close to $30k. For some reason, I'm really attracted to the Yamaha AR/SX 23's or 242, dual engine jet boats. Maybe it's the lack of out drive, a big whole in the transom, gimble, bellows, etc. I've read the jet vs. prop threads too. I think both camps agree that proper maintenance is the key for longevity and spending less money down the road on a repower/replace.

Which brings me to this post. I found a 2001, 240 SunDeck priced at $20k with a pretty extensive description on CL:
"
2001 Sea Ray 240 Sundeck and 2017 Ventura trailer. Excellent condition, one of the best designed open boats ever made. 26.5ft LOA, 8.5ft beam make this one of widest boats in her class which translates into more deck space. This boat is a 2 owner boat, has always been in fresh water and professionally maintained since day one and comes with all of the original owners manuals. Its has a Mercury 5.7L EFI 300HP engine with a Bravo III Duoprop outdrive, bennett trim tabs. There is absolutely nothing needed on this boat, get in and go. Gauges/switches all work, the only boat I have ever owned that has a fuel gauge that is accurate!! This boat comes with a new stereo system that includes a Kenwood head unit with bluetooth and multiple USB ports, Pandora radio and helm remote and remote app download for Android and IOS. 6 new JL audio speakers with a 10" JL audio sub and new 1000 Watt amp. This boat has the the porta potti with dock side pump out (the girls in your life will love this feature). The storage compartment in front of the helm fits two full size coolers and more gear to keep the deck clear. There in more than enough dry storage under the seats and in floor deck lockers for skis, board, tubes and any other toys you can think of. For a sixteen year old boat she is in great shape with just normal wear. Seats are in great condition too. There is full deck snap in carpet (not pictured) in excellent shape, two cocktail tables that stow under the wet bar. Boarding ladder on the extra wide swim platform extends deep into the water with wash down, there is also a bow boarding ladder with washdown. There is a filler cushion for the bow that converts the bow seating into a giant sun pad. Bimini Top in great shape and covers the entire cockpit from helm to stern seat.

Performance: this boat cruises easily fully loaded with people, gear and fuel thanks to the duoprop that puts you on plane in 4 sec, cruise at 30mph for fuel economy with a top speed of 45-50 depending on load. Mechanically this boat is pristine, fluids changed yearly, routine maintenance always done. As I mentioned above, there is not a single thing that this boat needs.

Boat comes with two anchors, main anchor with 150ft of rope and 10ft of chain, fenders, lines, 3 person tube and life jackets.

2017 Venture aluminum tandem axle bunk trailer, disc brakes on both axles, LED lights, with break reverse disable for backing up.

I have been boating my whole life and always tell everybody that this is the best boat I have ever owned and now that our kids are all teenagers we are moving up to a much bigger boat for weekend water getaways."

So I e-mailed with some questions and got this:

How long have you owned the boat? 2yrs, bought from a friend who was the original owner since new
Who did the maintenance and what records are available? Canal St. Marina and Wolf Marina, I only keep the most recent invoice
What was done annually? Normal maintenance, oil change, filters, all hoses, belts and lower unit inspected.
How many hours on the engine? 765
Any major service (water pump impeller, bellows, seals, oil lines, , etc.) to the outdrive and if so, when? All done as needed, there is no deferred maintenance on this boat
Any major service (risers, manifolds, ) to the engine and if so, when? No, never neeeded
Any electrical issues? No, everything works as it should
Did it sit in the water all summer in a slip, on a lift or was it trailered? Usually in slip.
Where was it stored in the winter i.e. indoor heated, indoor, wrapped and outdoors, etc.? Outdoor, shrink wrapped


Some questions for you pros out there:
Is it normal to only keep most recent maintenance invoice and trash the rest? I'd think you'd keep them all. Would the marina keep maintenance records and be a good source to inquire about this boat?
765 hours doesn't seem too bad for a 17 year boat...but would one expect the engine to not need anything more than normal maintenance for this age and hours? I would think that this isn't outside the norm with good maintenance.
Risers and Manifolds...how long do those last?

I'm in no rush to buy just any boat and I fully plan on getting a survey on any boat I buy. I also don't like to go back and forth too much with an owner questioning them on their boat before going to see it in person. I want to get a feel for it and know what to look for when inspecting myself.

Any thoughts or red flags you see here?

I'm also looking at a 1998 260 signature, but am awaiting answers to some of the same questions above on that boat too.

Like anyone buying a boat, I don't want to buy someone else's problems and have to spend 2 months and $6k fixing them. I don't mind doing work myself to save money, but I don't have unlimited time either. And, I'm not afraid to pay to have work done, if it's necessary and prevents larger, more expensive problems down the road.

Anyhow, that's about it for now. Appreciate any and all feedback.

Thank you!
 
Re: the 240 Sundeck, they have a great layout and tons of storage. Perfect for a day boat. Plenty of room for 8, holds up to 12.



For the particular boat that you are looking at, is it a salt or fresh water boat?
For that asking price, I would expect near perfect condition on the upholstery, maintenance records more than just the "most recent", and everything to work properly.

Subtract the trailer price and you have approximately $16.5k asking price on the boat. This seems like it could be a fair asking price IF the boat shows very well, but again, lack of maintenance records would bother me. The marina should be able to provide copies of work orders. I do much of my own maintenance and repairs and I save every receipt.
 
Re: the 240 Sundeck, they have a great layout and tons of storage. Perfect for a day boat. Plenty of room for 8, holds up to 12.



For the particular boat that you are looking at, is it a salt or fresh water boat?
For that asking price, I would expect near perfect condition on the upholstery, maintenance records more than just the "most recent", and everything to work properly.

Subtract the trailer price and you have approximately $16.5k asking price on the boat. This seems like it could be a fair asking price IF the boat shows very well, but again, lack of maintenance records would bother me. The marina should be able to provide copies of work orders. I do much of my own maintenance and repairs and I save every receipt.

Fresh water. The lack of records bothers me too, but not enough to stop pursuing it. I'll check about the marina records. For a 17 year old boat I would think things like bellows and gear oil tube would have needed changing just due to dry rot/time sitting in and out of water.

Thanks for the input!
 
I'd be skeptical of someone that says they are meticulous about maintenance but only keeps "the most recent invoice". They also did not mention impellors in their listed recent service items. This should be something that's done every two years +/-. The current owner should know when those were last replaced.

That boat looks pretty clean in the photos. A big plus if it's slipped under cover like the photos might suggest. That's a lot of boat for $20k.

Be sure to compare this boat to similar boats on the other side of the pond. I tend to find very aggressive prices in the Chicago area but it's usually for a good reason. There is quite a party scene over there and I tend to think a lot of boats of a certain size/price point are ridden hard, put away wet and not necessarily taken care of. I'm not saying that's the case with this boat but it's something I've noticed in the past...
 
I'd be skeptical of someone that says they are meticulous about maintenance but only keeps "the most recent invoice". They also did not mention impellors in their listed recent service items. This should be something that's done every two years +/-. The current owner should know when those were last replaced.

That boat looks pretty clean in the photos. A big plus if it's slipped under cover like the photos might suggest. That's a lot of boat for $20k.

Be sure to compare this boat to similar boats on the other side of the pond. I tend to find very aggressive prices in the Chicago area but it's usually for a good reason. There is quite a party scene over there and I tend to think a lot of boats of a certain size/price point are ridden hard, put away wet and not necessarily taken care of. I'm not saying that's the case with this boat but it's something I've noticed in the past...

Maybe people have different definitions of meticulous? I had a friend who WAS meticulous with his Crowline; Every receipt ever, in a folder, even ones for wax and buffing compound. Any repair, he'd try to replace with a more robust part, like SS parts, heaviest duty hoses, hose clamps, etc. He trailered and even in season put the boat/trailer on jack stands bc he didn't like the tires just sitting there with all the weight on them! That to me was meticulous. And he never had issues in the water and when his daughter went to college, he sold it well above NADA retail. It was truly one of the rare "like new" boats that was actually like new.

The engine does look clean and hoses look new. Cleanliness, to me, is a high level indicator that a boat was maintained properly. So an in person viewing will probably help out. I'm not too concerned with appearance. Not afraid to paint a hull (done that before on a sail boat), wax, buff, clean up vinyl, or even get stuff reupholstered. I am concerned with a $2k repair hiding in the drive, popping up during a long weekend at the lake!

Didn't think about the locale with regard to price although I've been looking from Green Bay Wisconsin all the way around up to Traverse City Michigan. The 21/210's up to 26/260's in my year range are $15-28k, pretty consistently.

Most people seem to just take their boats down the river or go out to the "play Pen" near North Avenue beach/Navy Peir. But even if ridden hard and put away wet, with "meticulous" maintenance it shouldn't be a big problem. That lack of receipts is a bugger.
 
I'd be skeptical of someone that says they are meticulous about maintenance but only keeps "the most recent invoice". They also did not mention impellors in their listed recent service items. This should be something that's done every two years +/-. The current owner should know when those were last replaced.

That boat looks pretty clean in the photos. A big plus if it's slipped under cover like the photos might suggest. That's a lot of boat for $20k.

Be sure to compare this boat to similar boats on the other side of the pond. I tend to find very aggressive prices in the Chicago area but it's usually for a good reason. There is quite a party scene over there and I tend to think a lot of boats of a certain size/price point are ridden hard, put away wet and not necessarily taken care of. I'm not saying that's the case with this boat but it's something I've noticed in the past...

Sorry, forgot "thank you!" For the input!
 
IMHO...

Check it out and do your due diligence. A marine surveyor and Mercruiser Tech will be your best investment. Compression tests on the engine will tell a story. The marina may have some records, but hull and engine surveys are critical.

Bennett
 
IMHO...

Check it out and do your due diligence. A marine surveyor and Mercruiser Tech will be your best investment. Compression tests on the engine will tell a story. The marina may have some records, but hull and engine surveys are critical.

Bennett
yes, that's one thing i've learned from lurking here and other boards. Survey and mechanical survey/inspection. Compression test and oil analysis. Spend $1,000 and potential save that plus more.

Another question; I've drawn up used car purchase contacts and leased rentals, etc. Are there any good templates floating around for boat purchases, including contingencies for survey/inspection results? Who pays what, when? What's negotiable and what's not? (i know everything is negotiable, but there are some DO's and DON'Ts for purchase contracts to protect yourself).

I should probably get back on the google machine and search the forums too.

Thanks!
 
Didn't realize that there are quite a few older SeaRay SunDeck's, fresh water and relatively low hours for a good price:
A 2000, 210 in decent shape with 400hrs:
https://madison.craigslist.org/bod/d/2000-sea-ray-sun-deck-with/6553100643.html

A 1998, 210 with 310 hours:
https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/boa/d/1998-sea-ray-210-sundeck/6544722520.html

Granted, nothing to say about maintenance, but using a boat for only 15-20 hours per season in freshwater bodes well. And these two are well below my budget - and can likely be had for less than listed - which is attractive.

Next question...I saw someone on another board here ask about pricing, negotiating, etc. and there were a lot of good replies. Some like the 'low ball' route and work up; some like the 'go look at it and get to know the boat/owner before throwing out a number'; others say NADA is wildly off; etc. etc. All interesting tactics and I see the pros/cons of each. I've bought and sold homes and cars and have gotten good deals for the most part, with easy transactions and good buyer/seller relationship. But I've never done this with a boat.

Just curious on thoughts about how much negotiating room there is for dealer and private seller transactions. My thinking is that most of your dealer boats in this size and age are probably coming to the dealer on trade and dealers are probably giving the person trading in the boat ~50% actual value. They may or may not have to put some money into it, or at least have their mechanic look it over and price it to make some money (hey, we all have to eat!). And since they're not floating anything on the trade-in boat, there's less incentive to price and try to sell aggressively, as they can have that inventory sit until the right buyer is found. Private party boat sellers are looking to get their 'investment' out (if it's owned free and clear) and need the money for a bigger boat or whatever. So the private party generally has a shorter time frame to unload and make a deal. I don't think either would consider low-ball offers of 50-75% of asking price, but there's always someone who will post their story of how they got a sweetheart deal bc they threw out a ridiculously low number and got lucky. My BS detector starts to go off, but even if true, good for them!

Which, back to the question...how much negotiating room do you think there is in this size/price range of boat? Figure best case buyer scenario, all cash and a boat in line with the local market, that's in decent condition, runs and drives fine and would really only need, at most, $1,000 of maintenance work to take care of some minor items. I think at minimum, you could come in with an offer at 90% of asking price and maybe even push to 80% (20% discount) and still bring the seller to the table, indicating you're a serious buyer and not just a tire kicker hoping to get lucky.

Thoughts?

Sidebar: I've never been 'offended' when someone throws out a low ball offer for something I'm selling. I usually just laugh and say, "no man, I just can't go that low, but thanks for the offer. I need to be closer to $XX before we can work out a deal". On the flip side, I've never taken someone's (realtor) advice when they say, "Don't go that low, you'll offend the seller!" My first offer on the house I'm in now was 79% of listing price and after an afternoon of back and forth, had a deal hammered out at 85% of listing. Realtors and real estate are a whole different ball game, but just my take on low ball offers and offending sellers.
 
I think getting advice on how to negotiate a deal like this is a lot like asking for advice on dating and women. Every situation is different, every boat is different, some are meant to be short term arrangements, others are more worthy investments that are meant to last :).

1.) Do your research and figure out whether the boat you're looking at is underpriced, overpriced or average price compared to similar boats/models/years in a certain region.
2.) Visit several boats and understand whether the boat you're looking at is in average condition, above average condition or "needs a lot of work".
3.) Meet the seller (if private) and try to understand their motivation for selling.

I may not offer a guy anything below list if the boat is in outstanding condition and I knew the price was already great. The economy is pretty strong right now...I think it would be silly to think every list price necessarily has "room" in it.

I suppose it never hurts to make an offer that isn't accepted. But I also hate wasting time if I know a deal is a good deal. My two cents only.
 
Update:
Spoke to the owner of this boat:
https://www.waterwerks.com/default....1&s=Year&d=D&t=preowned&fr=xPreOwnedInventory

Bought from a couple in New Jersey (brackish water use). The previous owners mechanic screwed up some wiring on the engine and fried the computer, wire harness, etc. The guy who bought it replaced the engine with a carburetor-ed 502 (he's a gearhead), new wiring harness, new gauges, captain call exhaust, rebuilt Bravo III (the skeg was damaged, but repaired), new bellows, seals, etc. All done in 2015. Used a bunch in 2016, but only a few times in 2017 as he got back into drag racing. Tells me that with 1/4 tank of gas and a couple adults, tops out at 67. The hydraulic motor for the tabs needs replacing as it's going out. Currently winterized and I'll probably take a look at it in person next week. The guy is very particular about maintenance and engines (so he says) and being a drag racer and into power sports, doesn't sound like he's blowing smoke. In person inspection will be telling either way.

Anyhow, this opened up an entire new can of worms; fuel injection (MPI/EFI, not TBI vs. carburetor! I've had both in cars and trucks and rebuilt my first carburetor (single barrel, ATV) when I was in middle school and graduated to 2- and 4-barrels in HS. Checked online and this is another one of those debates that will likely rage for a long time! Carbs are more reliable; not EFI is! I can fix a carb; I've never had a problem with EFI! Fuel economy, power, you name it, it seems there are opinions and evidence for both. But like everything, I guess it boils down to the user, their competence, the boat, how the boat is used, etc. Personally, I prefer EFI. But, I'm not afraid of carbs either and have no problems working on them. I just prefer the simplicity and less to think about with EFI and the last 20+ years haven't owned a car/truck/boat with a carb (just toys).

What say you all on carbs? Is there a thread on here that's already hashed this out? I'll search the forum and see what I can find.

Thanks!
 

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