leaking at shaft and rudder struts

[cigars01]

Hi all:

I have a 1981 310 Vanguard that I bought a year ago. I have water leaking in to the bilge (which makes me insane) from that Propeller struts and the rudder struts. The boat is out of the water to have the bottom done. I am planning to remove one bolt at a time put sealer in the hole then reinstall the nut and bolt. I then plan to run a bead of sealant around the strut. Do you guys that know more than me (which is probably most of you) feel this will work? If so do I use 3M 4200 or 5200. The mechanic that I would normally have repair this cannot get to it until mid May due to the time year that it is. The correct way I know would be to remove the shaft and strut etc but I cant do it and the cost would be too high for me right now.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this.

 

[PlayDate]

I believe you have straight shafts on that boat. A better way is to loosen/unbolt the shaft/transmission coupler and then unbolt the strut. It usually is a two person job.....somebody in the engine room and somebody on the outside. That will drop the shaft/strut enough so that you can access the strut pad and hull.

Then you can see what is going on with the strut pad and hull surface. If everything is sound, clean both up and remove old adhesive....then you can use 4200 to seal it. Keep in mind 4200 takes several days to cure.

Just coating the bolts and the edge of the strut pad really won't solve it. You can do this job.....All you need is a helper on the outside.

 

[cigars01]

Woudnt the shaft then to be realigned etc?

 

[NorCal Boater]

Woudnt the shaft then to be realigned etc?

Possibly.... But a bigger question is do you know if there is any water in the bottom structure? Seems odd to me that all 4 places are leaking.

If you do it the way you want to you should definitely use 4200. The fix you are suggesting will not be a permanent solution and you will want to be able to take it apart to do it right when the time and money are available.

 

[cigars01]

I dont believe so. The bottom has been stripped of all paint etc. The guy doing the work is an expert fiberglass guy with a great reputation. In fact he worked at the Searay factory at one time. There is no wood in the core and he has checked that the structure is solid and sound.

Thank you for your input

 

[PlayDate]

In most cases of realignment it is about the relationship of the engine/transmission geometry to the hub face of the shaft. Unless the boat has been hard grounded.....you can loosen the hub bolts and they will give you enough play to get to the top of the strut pad to disconnect it, rotate the strut surface to clean it and clean the strut pad on the hull. The strut pad is solid fiberglass. It can crack if the boat was hard grounded or strikes something hard.

I have seen a strut pad rebuilt and it isn't something that you want to get into unless it is structurally unsound. There is no adjustment between the strut and the strut pad so unbolting it, cleaning the surfaces and putting it back together with the shaft in place is the best path if you want to solve the problem.

The first picture shows a cracked strut pad and the second shows the final repair.

 

[cigars01]

Thanks for the info.

 

[Jimmy Buoy]

I know this is an older thread, but upon haul out it was noticed that both my struts had a noticeable gap around the recessed edges where the struts are attached to the hull. I've been told that they both need to be rebedded since water may be leaking past the bolts and delimitation of the fibreglass may result. No water has shown inside the boat (it's a separate bilge area on my boat for Struts and Rudders). Apparently if I remove bolts one at a time I should be able to see if water is intruding? Not sure if I want to disturb anything and may look at filling the gap with a waterproof caulking of some kind. Thoughts??

 

[sbw1]

I know this is an older thread, but upon haul out it was noticed that both my struts had a noticeable gap around the recessed edges where the struts are attached to the hull. I've been told that they both need to be rebedded since water may be leaking past the bolts and delimitation of the fibreglass may result. No water has shown inside the boat (it's a separate bilge area on my boat for Struts and Rudders). Apparently if I remove bolts one at a time I should be able to see if water is intruding? Not sure if I want to disturb anything and may look at filling the gap with a waterproof caulking of some kind. Thoughts??

Caulking around the edges of something that may be leaking is almost never a good idea. If you suspect a problem, remove all the bolts and remove the strut to see what type of issue you have. Fix it once in a way that you know it was done in a workmanlike manner.

 

[PlayDate]

I know this is an older thread, but upon haul out it was noticed that both my struts had a noticeable gap around the recessed edges where the struts are attached to the hull. I've been told that they both need to be rebedded since water may be leaking past the bolts and delimitation of the fibreglass may result. No water has shown inside the boat (it's a separate bilge area on my boat for Struts and Rudders). Apparently if I remove bolts one at a time I should be able to see if water is intruding? Not sure if I want to disturb anything and may look at filling the gap with a waterproof caulking of some kind. Thoughts??

I'm officially puzzled. If the boat is out of the water.....this is a relatively straightforward repair. It usually requires two people to remove the bolts....one inside the boat and the other outside.

If the boat is in the water....you won't be able to remove a bolt without water coming in and the bolt dropping to the bottom of your slip. I have heard of some people believing that removing the inside lock nut will show water intrusion since water may seep around the bolt but those are the same people who think tightening the nuts will also make the problem go way.

Only one way to fix it. Pull the bolts and the strut. Clean the mating surfaces and use copious amounts of Fast Dry 4200. It doesn't hurt to change the cutlass bearings if they haven't been done in a while.

 

[Jimmy Buoy]

Thanks for the replies. Maybe the question I should be asking is, when does one know that their struts need to be rebedded in the first place? They are solid as a rock and there is no sign of water leaking into the bilge whatsoever. How much material is usually visible and/or sticking out from underneath the struts where they meet the hull? I've never really taken a good look until now, but is the lack of such material cause to assume the job should be done?

From what I've read on-line, once the strut is removed and the mating surfaces cleaned its not as simple as bolting the strut back onto the hull. The strut apparently must be aligned so the prop shaft enters the centre of the shaft tube which involves some pretty exact science and shims as well as new bonding/filler material. I'm also not sure if the guy that hauled the boat and told me this is just looking to get a winter job. I asked him a couple of years ago to quote me on replacing my cutlass bearings, but he said he'd be removing both shafts and cutting the bearings out, then reinstalling the shafts. I told him about the StrutPro tool and that none of that is necessary, but he said he's old fashioned. Fortunately, a fellow CSR member nearby had the tool and met me at the boat and within an hour both bearings were replaced. Needless to say, I'm not too comfortable giving this guy the green light for a strut job simply based on his say so.

I'm from the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school. But how do I determine if it's "broke" in the first place?

 

[PlayDate]

Thanks for the replies. Maybe the question I should be asking is, when does one know that their struts need to be rebedded in the first place? They are solid as a rock and there is no sign of water leaking into the bilge whatsoever. How much material is usually visible and/or sticking out from underneath the struts where they meet the hull? I've never really taken a good look until now, but is the lack of such material cause to assume the job should be done?

From what I've read on-line, once the strut is removed and the mating surfaces cleaned its not as simple as bolting the strut back onto the hull. The strut apparently must be aligned so the prop shaft enters the centre of the shaft tube which involves some pretty exact science and shims as well as new bonding/filler material. I'm also not sure if the guy that hauled the boat and told me this is just looking to get a winter job. I asked him a couple of years ago to quote me on replacing my cutlass bearings, but he said he'd be removing both shafts and cutting the bearings out, then reinstalling the shafts. I told him about the StrutPro tool and that none of that is necessary, but he said he's old fashioned. Fortunately, a fellow CSR member nearby had the tool and met me at the boat and within an hour both bearings were replaced. Needless to say, I'm not too comfortable giving this guy the green light for a strut job simply based on his say so.

I'm from the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school. But how do I determine if it's "broke" in the first place?

It doesn't sound like you have a problem that needs to be fixed. What you do have is a yard hand looking for work.

I'll rebed struts if the owner has hit something. The torque of the prop jamming a log or flotsam in a prop tunnel creates a serious event that can break the seal and crack the fiberglass. Sometimes it will bend the shaft and the strut. That's when you should rebed them. You can visibly see cracks in the gelcoat of the strut bed once you clean it off if it has had a serious strike.

The old school guys like to pull the struts to change the cutlass bearings because the labor charge is 5-8x for the work since they want to throw in shaft alignment and other goodies (hubs) for the effort.

 

[Jimmy Buoy]

John, thanks for the reply. I haven't hit anything and there have never been any unusual vibrations while underway in my 10yrs of owning the boat. It's quite possible as you say that the yard hand is looking for a nice winter bonus!

With the boat's mid-ship engine design there is a bulkhead aft of the engine room, a fuel tank area, another bulkhead, then the bilge area with the strut bolts, rudders, pumps for various fishing tanks and two bilge pumps then the transom. It's pretty easy to see if any water is getting in that area of the boat since it's sealed off from the rest of the boat. There was water leaking in there a couple of years ago, but I found that the scupper drain hoses (there are two 3" sanitary type hoses on each aft corner of the deck that drain through the transom under the swim deck) were rotted to the point that they split and were leaking every time I washed the deck with a hose. All were replaced and it's been dry ever since.

I think I'll leave it for this season and keep an eye for any signs of water leaking...