Late 80's Sea Ray 34' - Can it do what I want?

[undefined]

I had originally posted this to another boating forum and was encouraged to take the question here to the experts....

Please forgive my lack of boating knowledge - I am new to this!

Here's the story... my wife and I are planning to move to S. Florida. As part of that move, we'd like to buy a boat. Our desired uses for said boat are as follows:

1. Diving. We are both avid scuba divers and I can't see any purpose to owning a boat I cannot dive from. A boat is a means of taking me to new dive sites and giving me a place to spend my surface intervals.

2. Weekending. I own a business that consumes unspeakable volumes of my time. My wife has been accused of being a work-a-holic. We need something that can take us out of cellular range! Our current solution is to take a quarterly trip to Latin America (and leave the phones at home). Our hope is that a boat would enable us to be 'off-the-grid' at least once per week and up to two weekends per month.

3. Relaxing. Even if we can't fully leave work, we can at least change the scenery. A boat that we can keep at a marina and will be ready at a moments notice will enable us to go out for a few hours in the evening to decompress over dinner and a drink (for whomever isn't driving).

4. Mini-Vacations. Three to four day trips to the Bahamas. Whatever boat we select must be seaworthy for a crossing from Miami to Bimini.

I've been looking at the late 80's Sea Ray 34' boats, as well as several other models, as they are quite inexpensive and appear to offer sufficient space for what we want to do. I've even seen one model that had the cockpit rigged the way I want with a roll control (vertical storage) system for scuba tanks.

What I am curious about is some feedback on this choice - do you consider this an acceptable vessel to satisfy the above requirements? Would four adults + 8 scuba tanks (@45lbs each) be too much weight for this vessel? Is there anywhere on the boat that I could install a portable scuba compressor? What is the fuel economy of dual 454's? What am I missing? Are there other boats you would recommend more highly?

As you can probably tell - I am quite new to boating! I appreciate any help, advice, criticism, or observations you may be able to offer.

Here is what I know:

1. Do not purchase any vessel without first having a thorough marine survey.

2. Do not ignore #1 above.

3. Take appropriate training classes at the USCG Aux station/designated location.

4. I am rather well aware of the costs of boat ownership. This was the first point of research performed.

 

[Cap10Pat]

I know the salesman and others will disagree, but I would rather see new boaters start with something more manageable than a 34 ft, 700 HP boat. I personally, don't look at this as a starter.

For your own benefit, if you are looking at buying a boat from the 1980s, you're probably close to your limit of what you can spend on this toy. It may well prove much (MUCH) more expensive than you expect. There are so many features that all of us here can disagree over that you may find this boat will meet few of your needs. And, you will have trouble selling it. It's a big bet.

My advice is to start smaller and find out what you like and don't like - while you develop some boating skills. This may not be the "can do all boat" that you want, but it will be a better start.

 

[undefined]

I know the salesman and others will disagree, but I would rather see new boaters start with something more manageable than a 34 ft, 700 HP boat.

How small? What do you recommend? I'm open to suggestions, and I surely would prefer if it were possible to do what I want (or close to it) with a smaller boat that would be my first choice.

 

[out-n-aboat]

I CAN ANSWER YOUR QUESTION FOR YOU BUT I HAVE A FEW QUESTIOS FOR YOU.

1. WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET
2. HOW MANY MILES IS IS FROM YOUR HOME PORT TO THE BAHAMAS
3. DO YOU HAVE ANY MECHANICAL SKILLS?

 

[fwebster]

Well, I hate to be the voice of decension, but I don't agree that a smaller boat is necessariily better. Truthfully, a twin engine inboard Sea Ray handles significantly better than almost any single engine outdrive. The key to boating safely is to know both your limits and those of your boat and don't push either past their comfort level.

The original question was about late 80's 340 sedan bridges........they were and still are good boats. For "Undefined's" planned use, I wouldn't choose this particular boat for several reasons:

1.A 20 year old gas boat is going to have some mechanical issues and there are almost none that are cruise ready without spending some money on their mechanicals. They may well need risers, manifolds, circulating pumps, timing covers, thermostat housings, sea water pumps, heat exchanger cleaning/replacement, etc.. Not difficult, but making a 20 year old gas boat seaworthy could run into a significant investment considering what you'd expect to pay for the boat.

2. I'm guessing, but I suspect the cruise speed of a 340DB fully loaded with dive gear is going to be slow.......in the 16-18 kt area.

3. Fuel consumption is going to make your head hurt and your nose bleed....expect 32-36 gph.

4. The speed, fuel burn numbers, and fuel tankage is going to make the range very limited for coastal cruising.

5. A South Fla boat is probably going to have some rotton wood in the cockpit and these boats were known for leaks in the cabin from the bridge area.


Consider the range question......250 gal capacity/115%= normal useable fuel of 217 gal /32gph=range of 6.79 hours running time X 16 kts= range of 108 miles. Don't hiccup on the way to the Bahamas. Now suppose you get some winds and come back in some some seas and your useable fuel drops to 250gal/125% or 200 gal and your speed drops to 12 kts SOG as you power up and coast down waves......200gal/32gph = 6.25 hours X 12 kts = 75 mile range.......now, you need to pray for a good wind if you make it back to Fla. Most conservative boaters do not find there to be enough safety margin in those calculations.

But, here is a good alternative.......shop for an early to mid 90's 370DB with either Cummins 6BTA's or Caterpillar 3116 diesel engines. The cockpit wood rot goes away, the speed improves about 10%, and the fuel burn numbers improve significantly to about 20-22 gph. The range improves to about 175 miles in the first example, and to about 145 in the second.

All Sea Ray bridge boats in that size range tend to be stern heavy and it takes a lot of power to keep them on plane. Add a lot of dive gear and that problem only gets worse. Another alternative would be to consider a larger Sundancer with diesel power, like a 420DA or a 440DA. from the early to mid 90's. Both great boats with lots of room and they are significantly better at handling heavy seas.

The alternative boat suggestions are based on the assumption that you would be looking for a lower priced boat as opposed to a much newer diesel boat like a 400DB.........

Well, that should get the thought process and peanut gallery going...........

 

[out-n-aboat]

yeah, what he said

Well, I hate to be the voice of decension, but I don't agree that a smaller boat is necessariily better. Truthfully, a twin engine inboard Sea Ray handles significantly better than almost any single engine outdrive. The key to boating safely is to know both your limits and those of your boat and don't push either past their comfort level.

The original question was about late 80's 340 sedan bridges........they were and still are good boats. For "Undefined's" planned use, I wouldn't choose this particular boat for several reasons:

1.A 20 year old gas boat is going to have some mechanical issues and there are almost none that are cruise ready without spending some money on their mechanicals. They may well need risers, manifolds, circulating pumps, timing covers, thermostat housings, sea water pumps, heat exchanger cleaning/replacement, etc.. Not difficult, but making a 20 year old gas boat seaworthy could run into a significant investment considering what you'd expect to pay for the boat.

2. I'm guessing, but I suspect the cruise speed of a 340DB fully loaded with dive gear is going to be slow.......in the 16-18 kt area.

3. Fuel consumption is going to make your head hurt and your nose bleed....expect 32-36 gph.

4. The speed, fuel burn numbers, and fuel tankage is going to make the range very limited for coastal cruising.

5. A South Fla boat is probably going to have some rotton wood in the cockpit and these boats were known for leaks in the cabin from the bridge area.


Consider the range question......250 gal capacity/115%= normal useable fuel of 217 gal /32gph=range of 6.79 hours running time X 16 kts= range of 108 miles. Don't hiccup on the way to the Bahamas. Now suppose you get some winds and come back in some some seas and your useable fuel drops to 250gal/125% or 200 gal and your speed drops to 12 kts SOG as you power up and coast down waves......200gal/32gph = 6.25 hours X 12 kts = 75 mile range.......now, you need to pray for a good wind if you make it back to Fla. Most conservative boaters do not find there to be enough safety margin in those calculations.

But, here is a good alternative.......shop for an early to mid 90's 370DB with either Cummins 6BTA's or Caterpillar 3116 diesel engines. The cockpit wood rot goes away, the speed improves about 10%, and the fuel burn numbers improve significantly to about 20-22 gph. The range improves to about 175 miles in the first example, and to about 145 in the second.

All Sea Ray bridge boats in that size range tend to be stern heavy and it takes a lot of power to keep them on plane. Add a lot of dive gear and that problem only gets worse. Another alternative would be to consider a larger Sundancer with diesel power, like a 420DA or a 440DA. from the early to mid 90's. Both great boats with lots of room and they are significantly better at handling heavy seas.

The alternative boat suggestions are based on the assumption that you would be looking for a lower priced boat as opposed to a much newer diesel boat like a 400DB.........

Well, that should get the thought process and peanut gallery going...........

 

[Hampton]

Frank,

How did you figure out Sedan Bridge? Is that all they made in 34' in that era, or am I missing something?

 

[fwebster]

They actually made 3 different 34' boats in in the mid-late 80's....... a sedan bridge, a Sundancer and an express criuiser.

You need to get up early to get ahead of Frank...............!

Actually, John, the only thing you missed was this fellow's post on the Boat/US forum yesterday:

http://my.boatus.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=59763


I cheated and posted a reply suggesting that he check dedicated forums like here at CSR for Sea Ray specific answers. He was getting a lot of general answers from non-Sea Ray owners who knew nothing about a 340DB and I don't post at Boat/US because of the aggressive and argumentitive nature of their readers. I do this to help other boaters, not argue positions on gun control, politics, etc. I'm capable of doing it, but I don't want to have to defend every comment I make ....etc,etc.

 

[Turtlesboat]

Dive gear isn't that heavy. 4 big cans would weigh about as much as a healthy person. Now an air compressor is another story. Not so sure I would want to suck air all day from a generator that would fit on a relatively small boat, but that's only because i've dived in mexico 1 too many times on cheap compressor's where gas fumes get sucked in. You would also be looking at some $ to beef up the swim platform and put in a really good ladder.

I've also driven across many states in a 20 year old car. So a 20 year old boat would probably have some drama added to it. But that's been said a little better by Frank.

I'm an avid Diver and a bigger boat is much more comfortable and safer than a small boat, not to mention long distance ocean cruising.

I've always dreamed of living in florida doing what you want to do. Just be safe and don't skimp on safety over money.

 

[Hampton]

Frank,

I was wondering if that was the case - You're right, you were cheating. If you're not cheating, you're not trying.

If it weren't for guns, the politicians would be completely out of control.

 

[Sea Ray 300]

Undefined,
Just bear in mind that all boats are somewhat of a compromise.
A great fishing or diving boat is sparse on creature comforts, and a great comfort boat is sparse on fishability (or diveability).
Perfect for diving (fishing) is a wide open cockpit.
Perfect for cruising is allot of upholstery. I'm sure you get the picture. I would suggest to you to buy a boat that has removeable cockpit seating, that can be stored below, for your dive trips. As an example, our stern bench, while very heavy, is removeable, and provides a nearly open cockpit area.
Best of luck... :thumbsup:

 

[Cap10Pat]

Frank,
I have to complement you on your thoughtful opinion. You make a lot of good points. One of these is the level of investment required.

But I have to disagree with trying to put any first time boat owner into a 40-something twin diesel. You know that too many people think boating will be a great idea, then get out after a year or two. (This may represent a good number of the boats for sale).

This poster admittedly knows little about boating, but thinks it would be nice to get a big boat that serves all purposes and go skin diving in the Bahammas. He's obviously looked at boat prices and decided that he will have to go back to the 80s to get a boat the size he wants for what he is willing or able to spend.

Even if he is able and willing to up his expenditure by a couple of hundred thousand, I think we do him no favor by advising this. Surely, the next thread will find us again critical of the inexperienced out on the water doing harm to themselves and others with skills less than required for their boat and their voyage.

 

[fwebster]

Capt10Pat,

The question was about "will a 340-345DB do what he wants." Well, it won't, so I saved him the effort of asking the next logical question "What will?"

He did not ask "Am I competent to run a boat?" and I don't think its my job to filter my answers by what I may or may not perceive as the posters boating ability.

If you read the thread yesterday about the fellow who wants to go 35 miles out in the Atlantic in a 20 ft boat for whale watching, you know I am conservative and not a risk taker.

But here is a question for you.......Have you run either a 340-345 DB or one of the other diesel powered boats I recommended this fellow consider instead? Maybe not....if you had you would realize that the 340 gas bridge boat he was considering is much harder to handle than any of the diesel boats I recommended.

Others may criticize a lack of experience, but if you have followed my posts, you know I'm more about helping people learn about their boats and boating than complaining about or criticizing others (canbote and blowboats excluded).

But, you know, here is the bottom line on my response........I read between the lines that the initial cost ($35-50K) of the little gas DB was a motivator, caught his eye and made him think "What a cheap way to get lost and have fun". He really cannot achieve what he wants, with business deadlines looming, safely, with that level of investment and if he is going to do coastal cruising/Bimini/Bahamas from a dive platform, he needs to be thinking about spending a lot more money on a more sea worthy and fuel efficient boat. Getting him to look at other alternatives that can do what he wants safely is one way to accomplish that.

 

[chazaroo]

I'm not sure this would work because I'm not sure about their inventory or rules but how about one of those boat clubs like Freedom Boat Club as a first step? Spend a year trying out boating before you dive into the expense of actually buying an 80s anything. Just a thought.

Chazaroo

 

[osd9]

I have a neighbor who has a 97 370EC with the CATs. Man, that thing is beamy....talk about a GREAT dive boat....there is also the smaller 33/34 EC in late 90's with Gas if diesel is out of the budget.....just thought I'd through that out just in case a bridge boat wasn't your only choice for dive and comfort....

 

[fwebster]

The 370EC would be perfect, only thing is the cost would be 5X the cost of a 340DB with 7.4's, so I didn't include it. I would chose the EC over any of those I mentioned if I were writing the check.

 

[Cap10Pat]

Frank,
I guess we each had the same conclusion about his proposed boat. We offered different alternatives. Maybe neither is the only "Right" answer.

Happy St. Patrick's Day.
Patrick

 

[Divedaddy]

As a diver and a 330DA owner, I will add a couple of points to those already expressed by Frank and Cap10Pat.

First, I am in the camp that a 30 - 35 foot twin engine boat is not a bad starter, provided that you take your learning seriously. Hire a teaching captain for running instruction. Since you are considering an older boat, there is a lot to lean about the boat itself. Spend time in the manuals and on websites learning about boat systems, maintenance, etc. Be there when it gets worked on to learn. All of this in an investment of your time to learn and master what you should know to be a competent operator of a boat in that size range. A question you should ask yourself is how much time can you devote to this?

Second - diving. A 340 or 330 would be an okay recreational dive platform for two to four divers, within limits, provided you don't overload it with too much gear, etc. You mentioned yourself and your wife. A word of strong caution - ALWAYS have someone topside, on the boat, who is competent to run the boat. All you need is something like a broken mooring to ruin a great dive -- imagine when it's time to surface you find the boat ... gone? What if one diver gets injured and needs help and attention - who's going to run the boat?

You mentioned the desire for a quick escape - ready on a moments notice. Yes, you can have this but only if you have spent the time or money to keep it ready. A boat, especially of the age you are considering, is not like a contemporary car. It has everything that car has and way more that needs to be maintained. I mention this because I often see owners who don't take the time or spend the money jump onto their boat, take a quick peek (if any) in the engine compartment to see if it still looks like the engines are there, close it up, start the engines, head out and find themselves challenged to get back because something isn't working right.

If you really have a desire, don't let any of this deter you. It can still provide a wonderful in marina get away spot. The time spent learning and tinkering is, at least for me, a superb escape (like diving). The time invested in the beginning is paid back with interest later as you gain knowledge and experience, which opens new options. The answer to your questions is yes, you can have a boat of that size and vintage that will do pretty much what you want. But it's not a turn-key operation that comes with the purchase of a boat. It is more about you and what you put into it.

 

[CharlieN]

Might as well put my 2 cent in on diving from our 268 Searay. We have done some multi-day dive trips with 4 divers, 8 tanks and that is a pretty good stretch for us. Really more like camping in a shoebox. Our longest was 4 days and 3 nights to a remote location. Pretty close quarters. Having a Kayak to get off the boat really helps.
We make two dives on one tank, so each person gets 4 dives in. The rest of the time is snorkeling or relaxing.
We use the vertical tank brackets from Leisure Pro to store 4 tanks in the cockpit, 3 on the left and one on the right as far forward as possible. The other 4 tanks get strapped together and tied to a bulkhead as far forward as possible on the cabin floor.
The others are right about too much weight in the back of the boat- makes it hard to get on plane. We try to shift as much weight forward as possible. This extra weight causes an extra 2-3 gal/hr increase compared to our usual cruise of 16-18 gal/hr. Single big block motor.
At the dive location, we usually put tanks, regulators and BCs together and throw them over the side with a line attached to make more room in the cockpit for people. The clutter from all the equipment means 2 people get ready and enter the water, then the last 2 people do the same. I think we had more room in our old 18 ft open runabout for 4 divers than we do in the Searay. It also means, at the end of the day, you are surrounded by wet equipment in the cockpit.
We have tried a compressor only once on the boat. A 4cfm with B&S 5 hp gas engine tied to the swim platform. What a pain. The noise and vibration will drive you nuts. Resonates all over the boat. Drives everybody off the boat till it is shut off. 20 minutes to fill a tank times 8 tanks means 3 hours listening to the noise. Ruins a quiet afternoon.
I have thought about a compressor mounted below deck with a belt to the main engine. As long as you have to charge batteries why not fill tanks at the same time. The reality is I would not run the engine for 3 hours to charge batteries. The extra mechanics and high pressure lines would be a nuisance. More stuff waiting to break. I have heard of generators that have a jack shaft for powering something extra like a compressor but have not seen one. We have a 3000 watt Onan generator and have thought about an electric driven compressor. I am thinking the Onan would not start a 1-2 hp electric motor with the load of a compressor attached.
I have also thought about leaving the tanks home and buying a hooka like the Brownie Third Lung but then again more compromises and $3k
A trip to the Bahamas could be accomplished without hauling tanks. Rent them when you get there. Just a thought.
Anyway, happy cruising and diving.

Charlie N
268 Searay