Lack of value for our boat in todays econonmy is hard to swallow...

[Tee]

When I sold my last boat just this sept. I determined what my bottom acceptable dollar was to sell the boat. Listed it at that and sold it for my asking price in 6 days. It was listed at just about NADA trade in value.

When I bought my current boat in Oct. The seller listed it at just bellow NADA trade in value, and I bought it for full asking price within 4 days of his listing it....

When I first went to look at the boat I asked what he used to value the boat and his asking price. He said the exact words I thought when I came up with my asking price.

 

[mrsrobinson]

Tee, what kind/size boat did you sell and then buy? It's my opinion the market for 30+ footers is all but dead right now unless you are buying and do not need to sell.

 

[Tee]

The boat I sold was a 1998 Advantage 22 Sport Cat with a blown 468ci big block chevy. GPS verified 102.2 mph. 125 hours on MOTOR not hull, hours unknown on hull, always garaged, Like new condition. Sold it for 23K See attached pic.

Boat I bought was a 2001 Ciera 2455 Sunbridge. 140 hrs, always garaged, 5.7 EFI w/Bravo 3 Remote troll and 6.0 Merc kicker, Full camper canvas never out of the box, Bought it for 20K on the trailer with gobs of extra's. Guy was getting out of boating completely and every boating/fishing related thing he owned was in the boat when I picked it up. I still don't know what some of it is :huh:LOL:huh:

Tee, what kind/size boat did you sell and then buy? It's my opinion the market for 30+ footers is all but dead right now unless you are buying and do not need to sell.

 

[dpmulvey]

After 5 pages of reading I offer the following:--It's a boat for God sake. Unless you use it for business, it is a toy. It costs what it costs and the hobby is the absolute thesis of dispoaable wealth.--Have you checked the bank repo figures lately. HUGE! Not all of these are a bunch of deadbeat folks walking away from things. They got into a position where a decision had to be made. They made it at the expense of a ding in their credit rating. If you are not in that boat (no pun), be thankful.--Counting depreciation into the cost is inane unless the boat is a depreciable business asset. It's akin to saying one lost $250 large this morning in the Dow. One did not and will not lose or make a dime on anything until a sale (any sale) is finalized.--Nothing you do to a boat adds value; merely marketability.--Fuel, whether it is the cheapest part of the hobby or not, is a current expense that has to be dealt with in 30 or less days. It's elasticity descimated the industry.--I kinow more people than not who would love to have our problem.--Be happy with what you got. --My $0.02.--Let's go boating.

 

[Four Suns]

Counting depreciation into the cost is inane unless the boat is a depreciable business asset.

Ohh goodie... More dime store financial advice.

You are an idiot if you don't account for depreciation on high-priced toys.

Maybe you can get one of them there Alt-A loans where you only make half the interest payment and then the other half is stuck on the principal every month. You don't see it... so it don't matter dude... Wait! Let us just be stupid and not account for the worth of our assets and then blame the government because we were too stupid to pay attention... IT'S THE BANK'S FAULT I'M UPSIDE DOWN! I'M WALKING AWAY!!!!

This is the kind of thinking that caused the financial crises we are in.

 

[fwebster]

Gary,

The items you added or comtemplate adding to your 480 may not add value, but they all certainly slow the depreciation curve. Those additions mean your boat will bring more than a similar 480 of the same year and general location without the regular upgrades and periodic freshening........if you ever decide to sell it.

 

[Kameroo]

I'm with Gary on the depreciation. I'm well aware of it, I account for it and it's why I only buy used. I paid $80's for my Silverton that surveyed at almost $100K. Somebody else lost $150K in depreciation over 13 years. If that's how they want to spend their money, more power to them, but I'm sure they were well aware of the curve as they did it.

Find the boat you want, then see what the same model in different years is worth (ie, 2004 model, 2003 model, 2002 model). Saves surprises down the road since you've already mapped out what it should be worth plus or minus the market.

 

[Uplate]

Boats are a luxury, Boats are a hobby.

If you have to track what it costs you, then you should not get into boating as you will be depressed .. It is not something you "need". But it sure is a great vibe if you can afford its overhead.

Depreciation, maintainence, fuel, etc is all part of the Luxury. No matter how you divide it up.


Be thankful that you can afford the luxury.

 

[Presentation]

.....If you have to track what it costs you, then you should not get into boating ....

With out doing some arithmetic how do you suggest one determines weather they should be purchasing a 12’ jon boat or the QM2?

 

[mrsrobinson]

Ohh goodie... More dime store financial advice.

You are an idiot if you don't account for depreciation on high-priced toys.

Maybe you can get one of them there Alt-A loans where you only make half the interest payment and then the other half is stuck on the principal every month. You don't see it... so it don't matter dude... Wait! Let us just be stupid and not account for the worth of our assets and then blame the government because we were too stupid to pay attention... IT'S THE BANK'S FAULT I'M UPSIDE DOWN! I'M WALKING AWAY!!!!

This is the kind of thinking that caused the financial crises we are in.

post removed, it could be taken the wrong way, not interested in going there

 

[Four Suns]

"You are an idiot if you don't account for depreciation on high-priced toys."

Should one depreciate all toys? What's the price point to make this decision? $100, $1000, $10,000, $100,000, $1,000,000. Is my 3rd car a toy? Should I depreciate it? Should the guy with the $1000 1980 bowrider depreciate his boat?

David, an idiot...nah, quite the contrary. Have you actually ever met David? He is a good man and would give you the shirt off his back.

I actually think his comment was well said as was yours about depreciation.

Great advice...

 

[mrsrobinson]

Oh well, since you quoted me my post is there now. It was not meant to stir up the pot.

"Great advice... "

What advice did I give?

 

[Kameroo]

I depreciate my toys for my own accounting purposes. I can't swing $100,000 of depreciation in a few years, so it helps me bracket what I can afford as I save for college, retirement, etc.

Would they sell more boats at the dealership if they laid out the numbers for successive years? Definitely not, but it would enlighten the people who buy new, boat for a few years, then get ambushed when it's time to sell.

 

[comsnark]

I am with David and Gary to a certain extent.

I think that if you seriously have to think about depreciation. . then you are buying the wrong toy. That goes for cars, as well as boats.

But just because you choose not to think about depreciation, that does not mean you should be *stupid* about the financial end of things. Which is why many people buy used boats. . . .and don't take out interest only loans to pay for them.

 

[Mystic Dreamer]

Gary,

Those upgrades may not add value, but they will make your boat more desirable and marketable if you sell it- in the meantime you get to enjoy them.

I always think of a boat as therapy- and a good therapist costs a lot of money per hour- so to me, it's the time on the boat with family and friends that provide the return of investment.

I also think it is crazy to purchase a boat expecting you would ever make money let alone break even.

Brian

 

[Turtlesboat]

I prefer to live in blissful ignorance.

 

[Four Suns]

Gary,

Those upgrades may not add value, but they will make your boat more desirable and marketable if you sell it- in the meantime you get to enjoy them.

I always think of a boat as therapy- and a good therapist costs a lot of money per hour- so to me, it's the time on the boat with family and friends that provide the return of investment.

I also think it is crazy to purchase a boat expecting you would ever make money let alone break even.

Brian

This thread sure isn't therapy... It's got me thinking about all the upgrades... Let's see... I forgot to mention the Icom Single Side Band radio project (about $7K total), Bridge PC (another $7K... damn monitor), new cockpit bench covering ($2K), new snap in carpets (0.6K... CHEAP!), antenna mast ($3K), multiple injuries (over $10K), and all kinds of other stuff/projects that are essentially dollars down the duckbills....

I need a beer.

I can never sell the boat... I have too much in it... It's like buying shares of RIMM at $140 and they are now worth $39.

 

[Presentation]

This thread sure isn't therapy... It's got me thinking about all the upgrades... Let's see... I forgot to mention the Icom Single Side Band radio project (about $7K total), Bridge PC (another $7K... damn monitor), new cockpit bench covering ($2K), new snap in carpets (0.6K... CHEAP!), antenna mast ($3K), multiple injuries (over $10K), and all kinds of other stuff/projects that are essentially dollars down the duckbills....

I need a beer.

I can never sell the boat... I have too much in it... It's like buying shares of RIMM at $140 and they are now worth $39.

What about the cost of the stuffed chicken chewing toy?

 

[Turtlesboat]

This thread sure isn't therapy... It's got me thinking about all the upgrades... Let's see... I forgot to mention the Icom Single Side Band radio project (about $7K total), Bridge PC (another $7K... damn monitor), new cockpit bench covering ($2K), new snap in carpets (0.6K... CHEAP!), antenna mast ($3K), multiple injuries (over $10K), and all kinds of other stuff/projects that are essentially dollars down the duckbills....

I need a beer.

I can never sell the boat... I have too much in it... It's like buying shares of RIMM at $140 and they are now worth $39.

It's nothing like owning stock. I never had one day where I said to myself, wow, I'm sure glad I bought yahoo. Ironically, my boat is the one purchase I've made that has lost the least amount of money. My apt dropped in value enough to buy a big ole' honkin boat. My stocks dropped as much as 3 of my boats cost. When you factor in taxes, insurance, maint, my boat costs me less than anything I own, that's not including my investment plummet. As I see it, boating is the best money I've spent.

 

[dpmulvey]

Ohh goodie... More dime store financial advice.

You are an idiot if you don't account for depreciation on high-priced toys.

Maybe you can get one of them there Alt-A loans where you only make half the interest payment and then the other half is stuck on the principal every month. You don't see it... so it don't matter dude... Wait! Let us just be stupid and not account for the worth of our assets and then blame the government because we were too stupid to pay attention... IT'S THE BANK'S FAULT I'M UPSIDE DOWN! I'M WALKING AWAY!!!!

This is the kind of thinking that caused the financial crises we are in.

Acurally, Barney Frank and friends caused the financial times we are in.

Are you a bit testy because your boat depreciated more than you anticipated?

In that your boat (and mine) are in the worst hit segment of the market, it stands to reason that when the market turns our segment will realize the largest gains as a number of manufacturers have cut production in the 30 to 50 foot range.

That said, when the market turns, your anticipated depreciation figures will be incorrect, but in the opposite direction. Either way, the anticipated depreciation figures will be an incorrect estimate. I say again, if it is not a business asset with a depreciation line of accounting associated with it, anticipating depreciation is a waste of time. I never buy a boat anticipating I will make money on it. As long as I am not upside down at the time of sale, I'm good with it. If I am....well....eff it. Depending on several other factors in play at the time, I can either sell or not sell. If I have to sell...It's just money. There is always more of that around somewhere.

The time between purchase and sale is fun time. No value can be placed on my fun or my time.