Just how much till she breaks

gueretma

New Member
May 8, 2009
16
Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
Boat Info
260 Sundancer 2007
Engines
Merc 350
Hi Everyone,

Well after having the boat for something like 3 weeks now I have a question. Just how much can she take?

I live at the south end of Lake Huron where it meets with St. Clair River. My marina comes out on the river and about a 2minutes trip till your on the lake.

So after work on Friday I race home to get the kid, wife and bring em to the boat to go for a trip out on the lake. calm waters. was a great trip.

the next day my buddy comes down and winds are about 29km/h. so my wife and kid are at home (my wife doesn't like rough waters). so my buddy and i go out to the lake. huge waves, the boat was lifting off and landing (softly).. i dont think its to good for the boat when it comes down and makes a big bam! (i dont know though).. most of the time it was landing real soft. into the next wave.

i have no idea if i should be taking the boat out in weather like this or not. i would appreciate some advice. is it really bad when the boat slams the water after hitting a big wave?
 
Curious what others have to say about this as well. I took a wave wrong this weekend and the boat slammed down :smt009 I assume this isn't good to do all the time, but can you really do damage... loosen seals, bolts, screws, etc?!?!
 
Many years ago I was out in 5 to 7 foot seas in an 1988 30ft Sundancer. I took a few hits that caused the boat to land on a bad angle. When I got to the marina we discovered that bulkhead wall under the dashboard cracked.

The bottom line is that the boat should be able to take some of these hits, but it it not designed to do it on a regular basis. Screws will loosen up, engines will move out of alignment etc etc. If you want a boat that is designed for that kind of a beating on a regular basis, you need to buy a quality brand speedboat that was designed to take that kind of punishment. Don't expect to find microwaves, coffee makers, TV's and vacuflush toilets installed on it though.

If you need to travel through those waters, put your trim tabs all the way down and slow down so your boat isn't getting slammed.
 
Many years ago I was out in 5 to 7 foot seas in an 1988 30ft Sundancer. I took a few hits that caused the boat to land on a bad angle. When I got to the marina we discovered that bulkhead wall under the dashboard cracked.

The bottom line is that the boat should be able to take some of these hits, but it it not designed to do it on a regular basis. Screws will loosen up, engines will move out of alignment etc etc. If you want a boat that is designed for that kind of a beating on a regular basis, you need to buy a quality brand speedboat that was designed to take that kind of punishment. Don't expect to find microwaves, coffee makers, TV's and vacuflush toilets installed on it though.

If you need to travel through those waters, put your trim tabs all the way down and slow down so your boat isn't getting slammed.

+1

I agree with Vince although I’d recommend a interceptor for rough water travels.


As to what your boat will take, your boat, a 2007 Sea Ray 260 Sundancer (not 2004 or earlier) is rated for Offshore, meaning wind force 8 (39-46 mph) and wave heights to and including 4 meters (13.12 feet).

Don’t mis-quote me; I am not saying to head out in those conditions.

I try to be reasonably gentle on my boat but it happens, I need to make way with angry seas. This past Sunday, June 7th, waves were about 4’ with a very short chop and confused seas. Waves were coming from the west, north and east. I fell into plenty of holes on the water. I buried the bow a few times too.

How do you know when it’s too rough? Well, when your microphone will not stay in the cradle, when you are holding onto the steering wheel so tight that your arms ache, when the waves peaks get sheared off from the wind and when you make land you kiss the ground its rough.

Ask Mike (Turtle) he was there a couple of weeks ago.

The start of this video is a boat in force 9 winds and 20 foot waves.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihzaDoG1JfY[/youtube]
 
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I've lost the trim riings on the port lights of two SRs, a 30 WEr and a 37 EXP in two different situations. The 30 came off a big wave on Lake Michigan and that was probably my fault although I was not doing anything stupid. The 37 lost a trim ring just running in a big following sea. The hull on that boat was not great as it flexed alot. It was forever developing new leaks between the deck and hull joint. That was a quality issue in my view. We would go through the boat after a long run and pick up screws and put stuff back in drawers. That was maybe the worst $150,000 I have ever spent.
 
Hello from Sarnia Bay Marina! :grin:

Like others have said, these boats will take more punishment than you probably would want to endure - HOWEVER that only means that the vessel will not likely have a catastrophic hull failure. It does not mean that the boat will be as it was prior to the rough water run. There's lots of stuff within the boat's hull that doesn't take kindly to extreme g-forces. :smt009

If the boat starts slamming, it's time to change the speed and/or attitude of the boat.:thumbsup:
 
I boat in lake St Clair with my 34ft and it slams pretty good on a windy day the problem is that the slamming comes from a choppy lake. When i go into Erie the waves are more rolling which does not seem as bad.

But bottom line is that when it starts slamming around you wont sink but exspect stuff to rattle loose, break, screws to come out, stuff to fall. It puts alot of strain on your boat in my opinion. Just a few weeks ago my whole fuse panel seperated from the celing. All you can do is go slow or not go out. When its really windy its not even enjoyable anyway so i just stay at the marina and get drunk.

I know huron can get pretty ruff for a 26ft boat. Try to gage where the wind is coming from and just stay close to shore from the direction it is coming out of
 
Hello from Sarnia Bay Marina! :grin:

Like others have said, these boats will take more punishment than you probably would want to endure - HOWEVER that only means that the vessel will not likely have a catastrophic hull failure. It does not mean that the boat will be as it was prior to the rough water run. There's lots of stuff within the boat's hull that doesn't take kindly to extreme g-forces. :smt009

If the boat starts slamming, it's time to change the speed and/or attitude of the boat.:thumbsup:

Hey i'm coming to stay at Sarnia Bay Marina on the 20th:thumbsup: we are pretty excited about the trip looks like a blast
 
+1

I agree with Vince although I’d recommend a interceptor for rough water travels.


As to what your boat will take, your boat, a 2007 Sea Ray 260 Sundancer (not 2004 or earlier) is rated for Offshore, meaning wind force 8 (39-46 mph) and wave heights to and including 4 meters (13.12 feet).

Don’t mis-quote me; I am not saying to head out in those conditions.

I try to be reasonably gentle on my boat but it happens, I need to make way with angry seas. This past Sunday, June 7th, waves were about 4’ with a very short chop and confused seas. Waves were coming from the west, north and east. I fell into plenty of holes on the water. I buried the bow a few times too.

How do you know when it’s too rough? Well, when your microphone will not stay in the cradle, when you are holding onto the steering wheel so tight that your arms ache, when the waves peaks get sheared off from the wind and when you make land you kiss the ground its rough.

Ask Mike (Turtle) he was there a couple of weeks ago.

The start of this video is a boat in force 9 winds and 20 foot waves.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihzaDoG1JfY[/youtube]


Pretty sure you'd be witnessing my last day on a boat with my wife.... I'd surely have perished from the ruptured spleen at the hands of my wife..
 
You do not have a "blue water or offshore " boat, and any "pounding" you do WILL loosen screws, cabinits , and anything else attached to the boat. Not good
 
. . .OK kids. . . .of course you can ride on the bow. . . . . .

. . . hmmm. . .burying the bow so far that the water doesn't break as it goes over cabin roof. . .My 240SD can go to the Bahamas. . .

. . . and to think the crew was complaining about the 2' chop (granted. . real short period in water 5' deep) this weekend.

. . .where can I get one of those boats?
 
A skipper's first responsibility to maintain the integrity of his ship, then the safety of his crew and passengers.

Knowing your boats limits is one thing and the other is to have the good sense to not challenge those limits intentionally.

The old saw " you can't always pick the weather you'll get while at sea, but you can always pick the weather you leave port on" is a good admonishon for every skipper.

Two things come to mind to guide an answer.

#1. What is the intended cruising conditions the vessel is built for. Such as inland lake weekender, coastal cruiser, blue water fishing. Eash design contemplates sea conditions and intended use. The Mfg. propaganda will state colorfully what the boats use is expected. The lines also indicate the ships design intentions.

#2 The skipper and crews expeience and ability to handle the boat in the conditions likely to be encounted in the specific boat.

With the foregoing as a back lite, I'll offer this.

No matter if the boat will take it, in circumstances that cause the question more than likely the crew won't be able to. The skipper must protect his crew and can simply do so by slowing down and moderate the angle of advance into the seas. Quartering and following seas generally do not cause pounding as described.

Generally, if the wave period is inside the boat length, the boat will experience strong head seas and oil canning and extreme stress on boat and crew. Skippers in the position should head for the closest safe harbor maintaining sufficient speed to maintain control and make positive advance towards port. Long tacks accross heavy seas may add 50% to the distance but spare strees on boat and crew.
 
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I go out a lot in bad weather to practice. Not horrible i'm going to die weather, but uncomfortable weather where I really have to be on my toes and work those throttles like a crack whore out of money. Slamming is bad, learning how to roll over waves is good. Might take you a lot of time to get from point A to B but it's all about the journey and getting your boat and your crew home safely. I go over my boat with a fine tooth comb after any rough weather to make sure everything is tight and working. I'm not out to test my boats limits, i'm out to hone my skill. I never want to know what my boat can't take and I act accordingly. But there are times when you're out and weather hits and I figure that's not the time for me to willy nilly it. Ease into weather and learn how the boat reacts, how you react.
 
My 240 SD performs extremely well in those conditions!! As long as she is in dry storage at the marina!!! I love being on the water in my boat, but I also don't want to push her to the extreme. She may be able to handle more than I want to push her, but that doesn't mean I want to try it!!
 
Best advice I have is to slow down when caught in rough seas.

I remember seeing a 560 Sedan Bridge in ocean city run out the inlet (which typically are semi-smooth) when waves out in the ocean were 8-13ft. This guy nailed it out of the inlet (probably 28-32knots) and hit the first 8/10+foot wave at speed. The boat nearly came entirely out of the water and then crashed down with the loudest bang I've ever heard...the entire beach turned their heads towads this massive "slam". The skipper of that boat finally made a very smart decision; they slowed and turned back into port.

So if you have a 20ft Searay or a 60ft Searay and your in 4/5+ft waves throttle down from you 30knot cruise and run more reasonalby. If the waves are really big run as slow as your boat will plane (or plow just off plane if you really need to raise the bow) which will minimize the "slam". Running any slower may not be a good idea as you want to be in control in that you don't want the waves to push you all over the place.

In regards to the trim, I've found in my particular experiences that it's best to retract the trim tabs to keep the bow as high as possible to avoid digging your bow into waves.
 
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I find that by extending the tabs I can hold pane at a slower speed.

It’s not easy to hold plane at a slow speed in angry seas.


What happens is you go thru a larger set of waves. This slows you down so your boat starts to fall off plane. So you add throttle but then the boat speeds up and the hard banging comes back.

So you are constantly adjusting the throttles.

Sunday I needed to devote my full attention to driving. I tried my best to read the waves and adjust accordingly. My goal was to provide the smoothest ride for the passengers as I could.

Every so often I’d dip below about 17 MPH. That seems to be the magic number in my boat. Get below 17 MPH and you are going to fall off plane. The banging got bad above about 19 or 20 MPH. Keeping the boat in that narrow window between 17MPH and 20 MPH as I tried to hit the larger waves at a ange and kept one eye on the radar and an occasional glance at the GPS and other instruments kept me busy.

Again, I tried to head into the waves at a angle. That’s easier to read and talk about on the internet then actually doing it in real life. The seas were confused. Waves had waves.

I think I did a good job overall. Several times I did stuff the bow. Several times I came down with a bang. Several times the boat healed over to one side or the other. Then I would try to learn from it and do better on the next wave.

Oh, reading the radar was no easy task either. By the time I got the sea clutter high enough, small targets like buoys were hard to pick out.

In all this crap I did manage to pick out a steady blip about 6 miles out from shore. I decided to get close enough to have a look but not too close. It was a fishing vessel much smaller then my boat. I made sure the passenger saw me and that he was not trying to flag me to get may attention then I continued on my way. What the heck was he thinking fishing in that mess? OK, he probably saw my boat with my kids onboard and had the same thought about me.
 
Best advice I have is to slow down when caught in rough seas.

In regards to the trim, I've found in my particular experiences that it's best to retract the trim tabs to keep the bow as high as possible to avoid digging your bow into waves.

Thats what I had always thought and have been told by many others

I find that by extending the tabs I can hold pane at a slower speed.

It’s not easy to hold plane at a slow speed in angry seas.


What happens is you go thru a larger set of waves. This slows you down so your boat starts to fall off plane. So you add throttle but then the boat speeds up and the hard banging comes back.

So you are constantly adjusting the throttles.
.


A few weeks ago, we crossed the Pamlico on our way to Ocracoke in 35-40mph south winds. This is a wide body of shallow water (no land in sight) so it kicks up really nasty in these conditions. Because of the numerous crab pots everywhere, even in the marked channels, we slowed to below plane in following seas and rode the backside of the waves (4-6', 3sec period) and all passengers aboard were much more comfortable. As a severe T-storm blew in behind us, we decided to throttle up and get on plane. I tried using tabs to keep us on plane at a slower speed but found stuffing the anchor into the waves was more unnerving to everyone than a little pounding from no tabs with the bow up higher. It also seemed the steering was harder to keep up with when using the tabs, I'm guessing it was bow steer from stuffing it in the water too much as it would try to suddenly steer on its own upon stuffing into the next wave. Tab or no tab, when on plane we were taking spray (more like the whole wave) over the arch which really sucked because we had to leave the front u-zips open for a better view of the crab pots. We were soaked to the bone. Docking in those winds is a whole nuther story :wow:

My question is, is there a rule of thumb for use of tabs in heavy seas? I've only been in these conditions twice but there are sure to be more and I'm guessing by experience that in following seas its best not to use them. I didn't get a chance to try it in head seas as it calmed a little for the return trip a few days later but logic tells me thats when a bit of tab could help smooth it out. Basically, at what point does it become unsafe to have a smoother ride by use of tab?
 
Hi Newbie,

Where I boat we have to contend with 2 - 3 ft seas as normal with 4 - 6 ft common. For deep V hulls ie nearly all Sea Rays below 34' the general rule is......put the nose up when travelling with a following sea and get the nose down into a head sea. Adjust speed for comfort and steerage.

The lack of control you described is broaching which can be potentially dangerous and should be avoided even at the cost of some comfort. Typically there is more margin for error for deep V hulls in following conditions than there is for flat bottomed boats, but trimming the nose up is still advisable.
 
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