Japan Quake and Tsunami for USA West Coast

I'm wondering when the media is going to start criticizing the rescue efforts. It's a terrible mess over there and they're already out of body bags, blankets, medicines. Thousands of people have no shelter, medical care, food or water. These events aren't so easy to handle, maybe the critics will be a little more understanding this time.
 
Woody said:
I'm wondering when the media is going to start criticizing the rescue efforts. It's a terrible mess over there and they're already out of body bags, blankets, medicines. Thousands of people have no shelter, medical care, food or water. These events aren't so easy to handle, maybe the critics will be a little more understanding this time.
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Just as soon as they can find a way to make it Bush's fault:smt021
 
Well. . .I have already heard several people blame Obama . . . . for something. . .

The Japanese in the Sendai area really have unbelievable challenges right now. I mean, at this point they can barely count the bodies washing up on the shore. They are having hundreds of powerful aftershocks, each of which can be considered serious earthquakes in their own right.

And amid the chaos of having devastated cities and entire missing towns we have THREE freakin' nuclear meltdowns.

The only thing that hasn't happened are firebreathing 100' tall lizards running around. But frankly, at this point, I am not sure anyone would even notice a critter.


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BTW: The news out of the #2 reactor at Dai-ichi is not good at all. I don't know the facts, but apparently there was a real bad explosion not too long ago. Not the "mere" H2 blast blowing off the roof of a nuclear containment building.

There is talk of the "Container" being breached. That could be very, very bad if such a breach prevents water from being pumped in. If, however, an opening has been created that vents pressure off the unit will cooling seawater can still be pumped in -> then this could all work out ok.
 
And yet in all of this the Japanese people respect each other. Orderly lines, helping each other, no looting, respect for the rescuers. It's a real testimony of their undying culture.

What a stark contrast of the Katrina disaster.
 
OldSkool said:
And yet in all of this the Japanese people respect each other. Orderly lines, helping each other, no looting, respect for the rescuers. It's a real testimony of their undying culture.

What a stark contrast of the Katrina disaster.
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:thumbsup:...Indeed......very interesting story in itself......relatively homogeneous population.....literally 10 times more people per sq. kilometer....two interesting differences compared to the USA...

God Bless them all....they were just going about their daily lives.....a completely random event......
 
OldSkool said:
And yet in all of this the Japanese people respect each other. Orderly lines, helping each other, no looting, respect for the rescuers. It's a real testimony of their undying culture.

What a stark contrast of the Katrina disaster.
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I think the US would be embarrassed by the way they acted during Katrina when compared to Japan.

But Japan has strong family values where here in the US family values have been thrown away for some time now.
 
This nuclear issue seems to be getting worse rather than better imo. Now they have 4 reactors that are damaged in one way or another.

Interestingly I was watching a report tonight where it was stated that Japan has 50 nuclear power stations which provides a thrid of Japans power useage.

Now that shocked me that 50 nuclear power stations only provides a third of their power requirements. I cannot see Japan going away from nuclear power stations no matter what happens at Fukushima.
 
Paulkarlsven said:
This nuclear issue seems to be getting worse rather than better imo. Now they have 4 reactors that are damaged in one way or another.

Interestingly I was watching a report tonight where it was stated that Japan has 50 nuclear power stations which provides a thrid of Japans power useage.

Now that shocked me that 50 nuclear power stations only provides a third of their power requirements. I cannot see Japan going away from nuclear power stations no matter what happens at Fukushima.
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I agree. But most likely they will have to come up with much better overall design and have more options on the backup systems. I'm surprised that for such vital, sensitive and life threatening operation they have only one backup option, which failed as a result of the event.
 
I agree with the above three posts.

First - US family values is not the issue. It is basic cultural values and the cultures of both incompetence and corruption at all three levels of goobermint.

Second - yeah, nuclear power in Japan is not going away. We will have an update in afew hours from Japan, but I am cautiously optimist regarding reactors 1 & 3. We have not heard bad news from there for a full day. Hopefully, they have gained ground on the flood/vent cycle and the reactor are cooling. As time progresses with the core flooded, the cooler they become. Eventually, like the plants at dianni (spelling), the fuel gets cool enough that the water doesn't boil off.

I think the Dai-ichi#2 was well on that path until the pumps failed yesterday; which probably caused the core to heat back up. Now- back to the drawing board -> hopefully, they don't have more setbacks.

In terms of design; Common mode failure is a bi**ch. There was probably all kinds of substation and power generator backups - that got swept out to sea. ( tsunami being common mode failure). But I agree with the broader point -> having a cooldown procedure that requires both POWER and active management is a Victorian weak point in the design.
 
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Hmmm. . .Came home tonight and the news from these nuclear plants does not sound radically dire. That probably bodes well, and that they are on the "good side" of the cooling vs. overheat curve.
 
Of course - at some point they would know if they are going to succeed. Not hearing any prospects for success probably means the opposite. (this is a change in opinion)
 
comsnark said:
Hmmm. . .Came home tonight and the news from these nuclear plants does not sound radically dire. That probably bodes well, and that they are on the "good side" of the cooling vs. overheat curve.
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I would like to share your optomism but it seems that just when things seem to be getting under control there is another explosion or fire at the reactors.

It goes without saying now that this power station will never return to active service as I think it is now beyond repair. I get an uneasy feeling when other governments start pulling all their government employees out of Japan, so far France and now Russia have announced they are getting their people out of Japan wiothin the next two days.

I now feel that the average Japanese citizen has good reason not to be trusting what their government has been saying as it would seem that not the whole truth is being divulged at the moment.
 
I now share your view. Add the US to the list of countries whose guidance to nationals exceeds the Japanese government recommendations. From what I read, the Spent fuel pools" nailed Tokyo Electric on both reactors #3 & #4. Not clear if containment is intact on reactor #3; in the absence of other information, a containment leak and sfp problem might not look different. I would hope by this point we would have heard if reactors #1 & #2 reached cold shutdown. I suspect they have not.

I can understand how the SPF on #3 got away from them, (what with the core melt down and all). Not sure why they couldn't have maintained the #4 SPF.

My take sways are now two fold: 1. As I stated above, requiring power and manual control to safely secure a reactor sounds "wrong". 2. The handling of spent fuel also seems to be a major problem. #4 may well prove to be negligence. #3 - well - I suspect having the SFP in the containment building sounds like a bad idea.
 
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Best quality information I have found to date; apparently written by nuclear scientists from MIT as opposed to drop out english majors from oshkosh community college;

http://mitnse.com/

You can read the detail yourself. States that Reactors #1 and #3 had been stabilized on Monday (i.e. they probably ain't gonna melt down)(see bottom of post). Note that "fuel damage" in a reactor that has intact containment is only relevant if you plan to use the reactor again. You just keep it buttoned up and never go in again. The blown off roofs on the buildings is no big deal if the primary containment is intact.

No comment regarding #2 regarding having stabilized the unit, but they do describe the implications of a H2 explosion in the wetwell of that unit. Top of article states that #2 is currently getting adequate cooling.

Note that the missing roofs may be relevant in regards to the Spent Fuel Pools. . .which is a slightly seperate topic.

They also talk about the nature of the danger from losing water in the Spent Fuel Pools of #3 and #4 reactors.

It wasn't discussed here, but I read that ALL of the fuel from #4 reactor was in the Spent Fuel Pool as part of the plant maintence. It is possible that the radioactive steam from the #3 reactor may be from the spent fuel pool in that plant and not from the reactor vessel (speculation mine). While the SPF doesn't have ALL the fuel from #3 reactor (afterall: the reactor was running at the time of the quake), there is still enough to represent a problem if you lose level.

Only a part of the fuel load from reactors #5 and #6 were in the pools.

Anyhow. . "Enjoy!"


- - - - - - -

Oh. . and another interesting read. Yes. . THAT Jerry Pounelle. Link via Instapundit (http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/)

http://www.jerrypournelle.com/view/2011/Q1/view666.html#worstcase
 
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Man, my heart is with them....(I think I am going to send a few dollars through the Red Cross).... and I am praying, for there sake even, that they succeed......but dropping water from helicopters, on a hot nuke plant, seems to me, like a true "Hale Mary"....I am not feeling at all confident that anyone knows what to do........I think it is becoming fairly clear that we are in "uncharted waters" here....this is turning into a living hell for these poor people....
 
comsnark said:
........ oshkosh community college.....
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I just looked at my Bachelors parchment that is hanging on my office wall next to a bunch of other parchments. Nope, it does not say Oshkosh is a community college.

If you didn’t know it, the Oshkosh University of Wisconsin School is far more conservative or right wing than any other part of the UW system. The school offers seven baccalaureate, seven masters, and one doctorate degrees in 73 programs spanning four colleges. The college is reputed to be strong in accounting, nursing, business, teaching, and fine arts.
 
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