Inverter decisions...

S

scottwizer

New Member
Nov 25, 2007
8
California
Boat Info
410 Aft Cabin
Engines
Twin 454
Okay here is my dilemma... A little history on my boat, I have a 1987 410 Aft Cabin. I currently have to run the generator all of the time to supply power for the TV and DVD. I am not really that concerned about the TV deal, but the kids like it, which I have no idea why when they should be swimming instead of watching the boob tube... :smt043Anyway, the main problem is that the fridge only runs on 110 power and draws 4 amps at that rating. That is mainly why I am running the geny, to keep the food cold. Not to mention other people in the yacht club don't want to hear the geny.... which I totally understand.

So, I want to put in an inverter and batteries to get away from burning fuel and hearing he engine run all day. I need advice on what to do. The fridge is getting old, still runs good, but the freezer gets very cold and the fridge part only gets mildly cool... I was going to have a guy look at it to fix the problem.

Anyone have an opinion on what to do... Should I buy an inverter to power TV, DVD, and small stuff? Then buy a new fridge that operates on 12 volt and 110? Or should I buy an inverter big enough to handle the TV, DVD, and fridge, along with the batteries needed to supply all of the Ah usage?

I hate decisions like this.... any ideas, or input would be greatly appreciated.
 
I bought a Xantrex Pro 1800 with a built in 40 Amp charger, as well as an automatic 30Amp a/c transfer switch. It is awesome! I could not be happier with its performance, and I have it wired after the cabin transfer switch, so whenever I plug the boat in, or turn on the generator, it charges the batteries automatically, and whenever I kill the genny or unplug from dock, it automatically fires up. One thing I love about it is that I can run my a/c while underway off of the alternators (I replaced my emerg start solenoid with a continuous duty, and my momentary switch with a toggle, so now I can pair the alternators while underway)

I do not know much about your peticular boat, or its electrical system, but you should check your power usage, and see if this would work for you. I am completely satisfied, and am amazed that boats my size don't come with one of these from the factory.
 
btw...I believe it to be normal for the freezer to get colder than the fridge.

sorry, had to say it.
 
The right way is going to cost you.
New efficient fridge - $500-$1000
2000-3000W marine inverter - $1000 - $2000
at least 2 new house deep cycle AGM batteries - $400+
Parts and installation: $500+

or skip the fridge for now and do the inverter and the fridge later.

No shore power at your club?
 
I agree with JV's post, except you will need more than 2 deep cycle batteries. I have six dedicated to my inverter (xantrex 3000w). Works great for us. I run the genny no more than 1 hour a day on the hook (except when the admiral needs ac) and can stay out for days on end with this set up.
 
I'm confused about the "people at the yacht club don't want to hear the genny" comment.
Does this mean you don't have shore power at your dock?

Are you going to be relying on the generator to recharge the battery bank if you install the inverter? If so, you'll need to rig it up with a high output alternator to recharge your battery bank.
 
SR400DB said:
I agree with JV's post, except you will need more than 2 deep cycle batteries. I have six dedicated to my inverter (xantrex 3000w). Works great for us. I run the genny no more than 1 hour a day on the hook (except when the admiral needs ac) and can stay out for days on end with this set up.
Click to expand...


I too have the Xantrex 3000w with 4 6-volt golf cart batteries (bought at costco). 6 batteries would be nicer but 4 gets the job done.... TV, Fridge, Ice Maker.
 
Hi. I have a '88 415 aft cabin and it came with 6 batteries and an invertor from the factory. But we never use is because the frig stays cold out on the trips as long as you keep the door shut! You could upgrade to a dual voltage frig [110 and 12 volts] which the boat probably came with origionally.
where do you keep the boat? Great lakes? 1000 islands?
oh, tv's and vcr's can be bought at 12 v also.

best wishes, keep us posted!
 
tobnpr said:
I'm confused about the "people at the yacht club don't want to hear the genny" comment.
Does this mean you don't have shore power at your dock?

Are you going to be relying on the generator to recharge the battery bank if you install the inverter? If so, you'll need to rig it up with a high output alternator to recharge your battery bank.
Click to expand...

When we are on cruise outs (on anchor) we try not to run the genny for long periods as it is somewhat bothersome to others...
I do have an AC to DC converter that was factory installed that is rated to charge the batteries at 30 amps. So I was under the impression that it would handle the recharging of batteries when they get low and I run the genny.

I do know that this particular boat didn't come with and AC/DC fridge, although I can't understand why Sea Ray didn't have that available. I wanted to try to stay away from buying all new TVs and DVDs as that would more than cost double of buying the inverter and batteries... they are both flat screens and so on.

We keep the boat on the California Delta, and we belong to the Sea Ray Boat Club of Northern California. There is a wealth of knowledge from the club members there, but I don't get to spend much time on the boat unless we are out on cruises. That makes it kind of difficult to assess what I want to do, it is more fun to play around than talk of working on the boat.

Thanks for all of the replies,
Jason
 
scottwizer said:
So I was under the impression that it would handle the recharging of batteries when they get low and I run the genny.
Click to expand...

Here's your problem:
You say the fridge draws 4 amps at 110v AC. That's A LOT of power. You're almost trying to run a small air conditioner off an inverter...
440 watts AC will equals a 37 amp draw at 12v- and that's not including the inefficiency of the inverter, nor anything else you may be running.

To do an inverter installation correctly mean adding up everything you plan to power, and the expected usage (hours per day). You then need to select the appropriate size inverter, battery bank, and charger. Depending on your needs, you charger capacity (30 amps/hr) may not be enough. A combo inverter/charger (with high capacity charger designed for this purpose) may be a better choice.

So- assuming your fridge runs only 50% of the time- and I have no idea if this is accurate in your case- you're looking at consuming over 450 amps PER DAY with just the refrigerator alone. Rule of thumb is no more than a 50% draw down on your battery bank- so you need to install a 900 amp hour battery bank- which is huge- just to get one day out of your refrigerator alone. Then, as I stated above- you've got to replace that 450 amps- which would take 450/30= 15 hours of genset run time. So, you're running your genset for 15 hours, instead of 24, just to run the refer...Of course, your generator's alternator could help in this process, but do you get my point?

Inverters are best suited for short-term heavy loads, or longer term light loads.
My suggestion- replace your refer with a marine AC/DC unit that will draw less power.
My 8 cu.ft. Tundra (a pretty big refer) draws only 4.5 amps at 12v- That's 1/8 the power of what you're using now.

Inverter installations require a lot of planning and analysis to do it correctly. And as you can see by your example, they're not suitable for everything. I can't tell you how many threads there are about boaters trying to figure out a way to run air conditioners off of inverters- ain't gonna happen (for more than a few hours, anyway).

Don't spend thousands on an installation only to find out it's not going to serve your purpose. Do your homework first, good luck.
 
Tobnpr, thanks for the input...I really appreciate it. That is exactly what I was looking for. I pretty much figured that a fridge replacement was going to be needed. I will try googling Tundra fridges to see what I can come up with... My wife will also be happy, as she wanted to get a new fridge anyway, she loves to look for new stuff.
Jason
 
tobnpr said:
My suggestion- replace your refer with a marine AC/DC unit that will draw less power.
My 8 cu.ft. Tundra (a pretty big refer) draws only 4.5 amps at 12v- That's 1/8 the power of what you're using now.

Inverter installations require a lot of planning and analysis to do it correctly. And as you can see by your example, they're not suitable for everything. I can't tell you how many threads there are about boaters trying to figure out a way to run air conditioners off of inverters- ain't gonna happen (for more than a few hours, anyway).

Don't spend thousands on an installation only to find out it's not going to serve your purpose. Do your homework first, good luck.
Click to expand...

I agree! I would replace the fridge with a 110V/12V unit... but I'm not sure about your existing wiring and how much of a PITA it would be to setup. TV (Assuming smaller LCD) and DVDs don't draw much and you might be able to draw on your existing setup and batteries.
 
Ok, I think I am going to go with the Xantrex MS 2000. I think it will be a good choice, unless anyone has something bad to say about the unit.... I do have another question however, I am going to install 6-volt batteries to run it, and I was going to go with Trojan, but I found some cheaper batteries at Sam's club. They are Energizer batteries and rated the same as the T-105 Trojan. I know Trojan has a good rep., but is Energizer just as good? Is the cost difference all in the name, or is it worth the 60 extra bucks per battery to have to Trojans. Thanks for the input.

Jason
 
If it were only $60 per batter, I'd probably go with the Trojans. I would doubt the Energisers were just as good. But that's just my $0.02. I'd have to do more research. The MS2000 is a wise choice.
 
Good move going with the 6v golf cart batts, most amps for the buck because they're mass produced in such large quantities.
There's a battery store (ONLY sell batteries) up the street from me; they sell tons of them. When I bought mine ( I think they were only $75 ea. or so) the guy told me that there are actually only a couple of manufacturers- the rest is just labeling. I would doubt there's much difference.
 
I have the Freedom 2000 inverter with 2 AGM batteries. My fridge (2) and freezer are dual powered. If I had known about it, I would have insisted on a full sine wave inverter not a modified sine wave. I had to swap out the microwave to a current model to get it to work.
 
I too am researching the installation of an inverter. My question is where you installed the L16s (golf cart batteries)? I would like to put in a 4 battery bank wired for 24 volts but I wish to avoid an installation that makes it impossible to service the other battery bank and the generator (port side). Any and all opinions will be appreciated.

Bill
 
Just to let you know ProMariner makes inverter/chargers or as we call them combis. As a Sea Ray owner I can offer you a discounted price under the customer appreciation program. Call me or email me for pricing if you are interested. I would be happy to help and I think it is a great bang for the buck.

Jim Mitchell
ProMariner
603-766-7603
jmitchell@pmariner.com
:grin:
 
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