Insurance

[wvsundancer]

I was with Zurich as well and got the same notice. NBOA also hooked me up. I also had a claim last year when a drunken boated hit our boat out in mid channel. DNR did not respond but the local city police did but he made the mistake of leeting the guy go because he said he did not have jursidaction on the water (which was incorrect). Long story shot my insurance paid but we had the police report stating the other operator was drunk. Our insurance thankfully did not go up.

 

[Alex D]

That's too bad Alex.
I remember your thread and some of the uneducated and insensitive comments from others..... Good Luck hunting when the time comes. Do you own the slip at the marina? If not why don't you go to a different marina for a year? Obviously I don't know your entire situation so these questions may seem silly. Sorry if they do. Meanwhile going to let the old vessel ride on in memory in your signature? Todd

Thank you much!! I really, really appreciated all the words from friends here on the board. It was good for me an my wife to read and our 3.5 year old son appreciated it too!

No, the slip is not ours. The issue is that there are a limited amount (read: very little or hardly any) slips for 45 ft. / 14 foot beam boats on the lake and they are mostly taken. Our lake has mostly hoisted slips for runabouts and sport boats.

We saw the boat yesterday and its on www.cooperss.com brings a tear to my eye. She was such a reliable and trusty boat.

 

[Alex D]

When considering an insurer, look at companies that will write all lines for your family. Homeowners, auto, personal umbrella, vacation home, boat, even life and disability....you will have some leverage with them outside of the premium you pay for just the boat.

This doesn't always work, such as when a carrier decides to exit a business line.

Also, remember that an insurance company is in the business of making money. If you have two claims within the same policy period(!)...the next question is how long have you been with them, what other lines do they carry for you, and how many total-portfolio claims have you had? Do you have any argument there? If it is the only line you have with them and you have been with them only a year or two, well....no ammo there....

This is an interesting viewpoint ... it did not came true in any case I have seen including all the damage at our marina.

First, it is the guys with riders to their home policy or being insured through a general insurer (read: non-marine insurer) who are in trouble at our marina. They had all the shop estimates thrown out first, then sent an insurance adjuster come in who didn't know jack about boats. So they then accepted the estimates again and now they are making everyone piece their boats together from scrap, no matter how bad the damage. You should see hte fiberglass guys glueing arches together in the backyard ... that type of repair is not going to last without stress cracks or worse.
The ones with a marine insurer had their boats totaled and moved on. the insurance will auction the boat off and go after the marina insurance for the rest.

In a case with an expensive asset such as a baot being insured, "holding all of your business over their head" does not mean a thing to the insurer because the cost of the claim exceeds an insured customer lifetime value by far, so they will gladly fire you as a customer no matter how much biz you do with them.

I can tell you from experience that with boats, you want to be with a seasoned marine insurer and having a boaters interest group such as NBOA behind you gives some good assurance that you have a decent insurer too.

I talked to the supervisor at NBOA and commented on how well this claim was handled.

 

[Sua Sponte]

In a case with an expensive asset such as a baot being insured, "holding all of your business over their head" does not mean a thing to the insurer because the cost of the claim exceeds an insured customer lifetime value by far, so they will gladly fire you as a customer no matter how much biz you do with them.

Sorry, that's just not accurate.

I have worked in the commercial insurance industry for 20 years.

When an insurance company has a big loss with a client, while they may not ever be able to break even over the lifetime relationship with the client, they can indeed financially mitigate your loss with low-loss future premiums, minimizing the net-present-value effect of the overall loss ratio on the account. Think about it; if you have a large and they dump you, they will forego future (possibly profitable) premiums. The decision to dump someone is not based solely on loss expereience; it's a more broad decision in which the insurance company's probability to make some of the money back is also assessed.

In the case of the original poster, I would probably have dumped him, too. He has shown a propensity for filing what the industry calls "nuisance claims": claims that are frequent & low in severity. Mulitple nuisance cliams followed by a large loss in the same or subsequent policy years, with no supporting lines of cover, translates into an unprofitable long-term client. It's bad business (no offense to OP).

 

[Alex D]

Sua ... I just refelcted what I have actually experienced and what my friends at the marina experiencing right now ..

 

[Sua Sponte]

Sua ... I just refelcted what I have actually experienced and what my friends at the marina experiencing right now ..

Understood, but your statement was not about your personal experience. Your statement I quoted above generalized how the industry operates, and is inaccurate.

Just offering a gentle correction...

 

[Alex D]

No it is about pesonal experience ... and what I have seen happening to friends ... having all of your business with one insurer does help, but does not mean much when the claims get larger ... but there is no reason to argue ... we can just agree to disagree.

 

[Sua Sponte]

..."holding all of your business over their head" does not mean a thing to the insurer.....

...having all of your business with one insurer does help...

What? Huh?

...there is no reason to argue...

You are already arguing with yourself. You don't need me!

...we can just agree to disagree.

No. "Agreeing to disagree" is when I like a blue hull and you like a white hull. Bud Light versus Miller Lite. Implants versus naturals. Ford versus Chevy.

You have made a generalization about how an industry operates that is patently wrong. While you may be a claimant, you are largely uninformed and yet commenting on the inner workings of a multi-billion-dollar industry through the myopic keyhole of your own personal situation.

I am all for consumers like you voicing their concern, frustration, joys, etc. etc. over their own personal insurance claim experience. Please don't misunderstand me.

BUT, that does not qualify you to make sweeping generalizations about the industry's supposed underwriting practice being "one big claim and you're done". It just doesn't work like that, even though in the economic microcosm of your marina, it may feel like it at the moment...

Just because this may have happened to you, this is not how it works everywhere for everyone. That's all I am trying to say.....

 

[skibum]

Insurance companies are just playing poker. They are gambling that you will be a "winner", meaning that you will pay your premiums and never file a claim. If you turn out to be a "loser", they are going to stop betting on you.

Wrap that philosophy up in a nice jingle like "Like a good neighbor (we'll move away if you suck)...", or "You're in good hands (until we lose money on you)" and you can sorta figure out where they are coming from. :lol:

 

[Alex D]

I think you said it all Sua ... have a nice life! :thumbsup:

 

[Tonka Boater]

It just doesn't work like that, even though in the economic microcosm of your marina, it may feel like it at the moment...

Just because this may have happened to you, this is not how it works everywhere for everyone. That's all I am trying to say.....

Just like it's a coincidence that gas prices happen to go up around Memorial Day weekend and Labor Day weekend?

It may not work that way for insurance or gas prices, but it sure feels like it

.

 

[Summer Fun II]

Thank you my friend! :thumbsup:

Alex , I mean it from the heart. :smt001
There's only 3 other people I'd let to use / stay on my boat and you're one of them. :smt001

Bring your family up here and I'll show you guys a GREAT time on Oneida Lake. :thumbsup:

Take care Wayne,


Sorry for the Hijack of this thread.

 

[Gunn]

BUT, that does not qualify you to make sweeping generalizations about the industry's supposed underwriting practice being "one big claim and you're done". It just doesn't work like that, even though in the economic microcosm of your marina, it may feel like it at the moment...

Just because this may have happened to you, this is not how it works everywhere for everyone. That's all I am trying to say.....

Ouch! Maybe you need to come down off your perch and see what the perception is down in the microcosm of our lives. Just sayin'...

 

[Ka1oxd]

I went with Liberty Mutual and got a good agreed hull value for my boat, some liability, and personal property. They did not want a survey. Many of the sail boats at my marina told me about them when I was complaining about surveys.

 

[Alex D]

I went with Liberty Mutual and got a good agreed hull value for my boat, some liability, and personal property. They did not want a survey. Many of the sail boats at my marina told me about them when I was complaining about surveys.

Frst i would make sure that the Agreed Hull balue will pay full without depreciation. that is not always a given unless you have a "Yacht Policy" from a marine insurere and even then do your check. An insurance not requiring a survey upon writing the policy is a warning signal to me. Several of my slip neighbors had "agreed value" policies, but had to eat a depreciation factor of about 20% below that agreed value, which was in the fine print of the policy.

Everyone can certainly insure any which way they please, but if you ever have a major claim you may not be so happy ... generally annual marine policy premiums are about 0.7% to 1% of the insured hull value and the deductibles are 1% or 2% of the insured hull value. In my case when they totalled the boat teh deductible was not subtracted from the settlement. Deductible only gets subtracted if there is a repair.

It might be good to inform yourselves though BoatUS or NBOA about the difference in policies. They both sell insurance but are boater interst groups and very focused on helping their constituency. Because of that they also make sure to have good insurance companies allied with them since their interst is in supporting boaters and the intersts of the boating community.

 

[Ka1oxd]

See BoatUs wanted a survey from me, and if I wanted to leave from the CT river to Long Island Sound, the policy got real expensive. Where Liberty covers me from Maine to South Carolina, out 100 miles from shore.

 

[Sua Sponte]

Actual Cash Value (ACV) is replacement cost, less applicable depreciation. Agreed value is simply agreed value.

Many folks think they have one thing and actually have another...most of the drama associated with a frustrated consumer is usually tied to the fact that they just didn't read their policy. At all.

Affiliation insurance programs like Boat US aren't always as cozy and purpose-driven as they would make themselves sound. The insurance companies that enter into exclusive appointment arrangments with associations to be the "sponsored company" or "preferred company" generously compensate the associations for that right, and in many instances are the primary source of revenue for the association outside of membership dues.

 

[Hellman Huddle]

I think the key is: Go with a company that insures the rest of your property ( house, car, boat, etc) then they are less likely to drop you because they don't want to lose your business. All of my property is with Allstate. My boat is covered in the US/Canada and out 100 Nautical Miles, No survey required.

 

[Alex D]

I think the key is: Go with a company that insures the rest of your property ( house, car, boat, etc) then they are less likely to drop you because they don't want to lose your business. All of my property is with Allstate. My boat is covered in the US/Canada and out 100 Nautical Miles, No survey required.

Yeah, like one of my team members ... overheard him shopping for insurance last week and asked him what was going on ... he said they had 2 windshield claims in 24 months and his insurance dropped him last week .... after he had his home, boat, three cars, personal umbrella insured with them for over 10 years .... and they dropped him for two windshield claims!

I said it before ... once you get kicked out by their claims analysts it doesn't matter how much business you carry with them they will drop you like a hot potato no matter what.