Insurance clause

[Bottom Line]

I am curious if others have this clause in their insurance policy...and if so, how to you have it checked.

This is under a Fire Extinguisher Clause..." You agree the that the yacht is equipped with a built-in automatic fire extinguishing system, properly installed in the engine room and maintained in good and efficient working order; and the the tank and/or tanks of the said system will be weighed and recharged as necessary at least once a year."

I asked a Sea Ray technician about weighing the tanks, and he said he had never heard of doing that. The tanks have a gauge on them, indicating they are fully charged. Thanks for any input...


Jeff

 

[First Born]

I would contact your agent/company about this clause. It is not boaters that write the insurance policy. I would think as long as the gauge shows charged you are in compliance. That said if it were me, I would contact the agency/company, ask them what you need to do to be in compliance with this clause (you will probably find they have no idea what you are talking about, most insureds do not even read their policies) and what ever they tell you have who ever you talk to send you a email/letter stating that. The courts will usually rule in favor of the client (a resonable person would think if they check their extingishing equipment yearly and the gauge shows charged the equipment would work correctly).

Maybe someone else will know more. :thumbsup:

Wesley

 

[STIHLBOLTS]

Older systems do not have the gauges that newer systems have. Tanks are weighed for volume of product depending on product to be disbursed. In the service we used PKP which was a dry powder and did not have a gage to show amount contained. You weighed the bottle to make sure it had the 30-45 lbs of product it was supposed to contain. Halon and other gases use a gage. I am taking a WAG but the term "Weighed and Gaged" covers the insurance company's butt about which extinguisher is present in your boat covering multiple years. (Standard legaleze.) :smt021

 

[lorenbennett]

We have to yearly fire training with ours at work so I can say that the above is correct. One more thing to add is that if you leave your boat sitting the best check is to pull out the unit and give it a shake. The propellant can harden and needs to be loose or it will not work. This is not needed on the helon systems. :thumbsup:

 

[Sadler]

I had a courtesy C.G. check a few years ago on my 290DA, and I was flagged for not having my engine room extinguisher tank weighed and tagged by a certified fire extinguisher company. The C.G. auxiliary person showed me the regulation, which I later confirmed on the G.G site. I had never heard of it. It pertains to boats of a certain size, and up. The regulation also states that you can have a hand held of a certain size instead, if desired. I now have both--a large handheld in the cockpit, and I annually weigh my engine room extinguisher myself, since no one I've found will certify it. Weighing is a good idea. On my last boat, the gauge said full, but when weighed, it was completely empty.

Sadler

 

[bliss]

I suspect that your underwriter gave you some add'l. consideration when you agreed to meet a specific safety standard. It could be that he agreed to issue coverage on an older boat or, maybe, gave a 5%premium discount or ---. If so, I would not screw around; get them weighed. If you don't know where to go, find out. If you have a loss that could have been mitigated by a properly maintained standard-one you negotiated and agreed to- you may not have coverage. Heaven forbid there is a loss of life or worse and it were to come to light that "you knew better or should have known better" you will want your underwriter's attorneys and his check book available.

 

[sbw1]

Most knowledgable owners of boats with automatic fire suppression systems have them certified annually to comply with their insurance contracts. I work in an industry where we protect valuable records with non liquid systems. The systems are surveyed and certified on an annual basis to keep our insurance in force. If your policy reads this way, you ignore it at your own peril.

 

[Hampton]

It seems to me that if the system fails, the evidence will be destroyed - at least the little paper tag with the inspection date will be.

 

[Sundancer]

As a boat owner you are responsible for all systems on board. It's no different than checking the air in the tires and making sure people are wearing seat belts in your car. If you can afford a boat large enough to warrant a fire extinguisher in the engine compartment, then for less than a few gallons of gas you can probably get the tank checked, refilled and recertified. I have an old Halon system from 1987 and I've been fortunate that it still checks out OK. It's easy to unhook the wires to the indicator light and undo the strap holding it on to take it in and get it weighed. No excuses!! DO IT! Even if it doesn't pass, for around $500 bucks I buy a new one that will last another 20 years! How much do you spend on gas, maintenance, etc., and how large is that risk/cost in the big picture? How much of a hassle will it be to prove it to the insurance company? Most fire extinguisher places will record the bottle and such so you are protected.

 

[sbw1]

It seems to me that if the system fails, the evidence will be destroyed - at least the little paper tag with the inspection date will be.

That is why you maintain records of the transaction off site. Proof of a covered loss requires you to prove you did your part in the contractual obligations you and your insurance company agreed to. Typically a payment receipt and report or copy of the tag should be all you need for a claim.

 

[bliss]

Bottomline, may we infer that you have this clause in your insurance policy on a 30' Sundancer? If so I would comply or negotiate it away.

 

[xplorer]

We do this regularly on our commercial vessels and I've had it done for my personal vessel.

Call your volunteer or paid fire department and ask them who services their fire extinguishers (they will usually be the most reasonable priced service). Then call them and ask if they certify halon extinguishers (presuming your bilge extinguisher is halon)and get a price for them to come to the boat or you to bring the cylander to them. I wouldn't think it too costly. We pay about $25.00 per extinguisher p/year which includes topping off if necessary.

The other consideration if your having them come to you is including others on your dock. This way you can spread the trip charge among many.

Good luck,

Mike

 

[Nehalennia II]

As a boat owner you are responsible for all systems on board. It's no different than checking the air in the tires and making sure people are wearing seat belts in your car. If you can afford a boat large enough to warrant a fire extinguisher in the engine compartment, then for less than a few gallons of gas you can probably get the tank checked, refilled and recertified. I have an old Halon system from 1987 and I've been fortunate that it still checks out OK. It's easy to unhook the wires to the indicator light and undo the strap holding it on to take it in and get it weighed. No excuses!! DO IT! Even if it doesn't pass, for around $500 bucks I buy a new one that will last another 20 years! How much do you spend on gas, maintenance, etc., and how large is that risk/cost in the big picture? How much of a hassle will it be to prove it to the insurance company? Most fire extinguisher places will record the bottle and such so you are protected.

Here here....A pinch of something is worth a pound of something else or whatever Momma used to say :thumbsup:

 

[Bottom Line]

As a boat owner you are responsible for all systems on board. It's no different than checking the air in the tires and making sure people are wearing seat belts in your car. If you can afford a boat large enough to warrant a fire extinguisher in the engine compartment, then for less than a few gallons of gas you can probably get the tank checked, refilled and recertified. I have an old Halon system from 1987 and I've been fortunate that it still checks out OK. It's easy to unhook the wires to the indicator light and undo the strap holding it on to take it in and get it weighed. No excuses!! DO IT! Even if it doesn't pass, for around $500 bucks I buy a new one that will last another 20 years! How much do you spend on gas, maintenance, etc., and how large is that risk/cost in the big picture? How much of a hassle will it be to prove it to the insurance company? Most fire extinguisher places will record the bottle and such so you are protected.

Did someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed????

I was just interested to find out how many other boat owners' policy contained this clause. I would suspect most have not read their policies.

Most newer boats have gauges on the extinguishers and also a light at the helm, to indicate if the halon system is properly charged.

 

[270SLX]

Weighing the tanks (bottles) of "clean agent" in fixed fire suppression systems in buildings is common, required by NFPA standards and fire and casualty insurance companies. A pressure test of the bottles every five years is also common. Gauges can fail. All that said, the odds of failure are teeeeeny. Insurance companies, however, don't care how slight the chance of failure are, they only care about the worst possible outcome if it does happen. It seems to me that the lawyers who wrote the warranty are only borrowing "boilerplate" language from NFPA and insurance standards.

Dennis

 

[270SLX]

"It seems to me that the lawyers who wrote the warranty are only borrowing "boilerplate" language from NFPA and insurance standards."

What I meant to say is that the lawyers who wrote the insurance policy borrowed boilerplate from NFPA and maybe the warranty.

I was interrupted whilst sitting here on the couch writing that post by a phone call telling me that one of our employees just collapsed and died of a heart attack on the job. Kind of discombobulating.

"Live every day as if it were a lifetime", I guess.

 

[Sundancer]

As a boat owner you are responsible for all systems on board. It's no different than checking the air in the tires and making sure people are wearing seat belts in your car. If you can afford a boat large enough to warrant a fire extinguisher in the engine compartment, then for less than a few gallons of gas you can probably get the tank checked, refilled and recertified. I have an old Halon system from 1987 and I've been fortunate that it still checks out OK. It's easy to unhook the wires to the indicator light and undo the strap holding it on to take it in and get it weighed. No excuses!! DO IT! Even if it doesn't pass, for around $500 bucks I buy a new one that will last another 20 years! How much do you spend on gas, maintenance, etc., and how large is that risk/cost in the big picture? How much of a hassle will it be to prove it to the insurance company? Most fire extinguisher places will record the bottle and such so you are protected.

Did someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed????

I was just interested to find out how many other boat owners' policy contained this clause. I would suspect most have not read their policies.

Most newer boats have gauges on the extinguishers and also a light at the helm, to indicate if the halon system is properly charged.

Wrong side of the bed, facing a bunch of people that OD'd on Stupid! DON'T make me relive that day!

It's in my insurance policy and I'll bet it's in everyone else's as well. The gauge isn't a guarantee because no one bothers to look at the gauge. It's tough to do while hanging upside down in the engine compartment! The tag and receipt is the only guarantee! I'd bet most boaters figure if the green light on the dash is ON, that's good enough. The light does NOT indicate a proper charge! Your bottle may have leaked through the threads and could be completely empty and the light would still be on!

 

[Nehalennia II]

I was interrupted whilst sitting here on the couch writing that post by a phone call telling me that one of our employees just collapsed and died of a heart attack on the job. Kind of discombobulating.

"Live every day as if it were a lifetime", I guess.

That's terrible. Sorry to hear that. Pass along our condolences..

 

[walts]

Sundancer,
Yes it is in my policy, it was in the old one with another company also.I believe it is standard boiler plate.

Walt

 

[bliss]

Maybe w/ your carrier, but not CNA.