Inboard propeller repair/recondition recommendation & questions

[Vince_nj1]

I just had my boat hauled yesterday and discovered that I some minor damage to my props. Starboard prop had a little bend on one blade and the port prop had a nick where the metal was gone. Both were less that 1/4 inch in size. I realized that the pitch could also be affected. I tried to take some pictures, but the marina was pressure washing the hull and I didn't want to get in their way. I snapped a few but they came out blurry.

I ran the boat WOT for about 1 minute on the way to the marina and both engines achieved 4850 rpms. (I think my starboard was at 4830) My top speed at that RPM was only 26.8 knots however. I had a significant growth on the bottom. See below:

I want to send the props out to be repaired. I am considering pulling the props myself and taking them to an "Atlantis Propeller" authorized marina in Point Pleasant. They advertise that they will lend me a prop puller.

Some questions. Can the prop with the missing metal be repaired? Any thoughts on Atlantis Propeller? other recommendations? Is it worth me pulling the props myself or should I just have the marina take care of the entire project? My boat is stored in the Bayville, NJ area.

Vince

 

[sbw1]

If I were in your situation, I would find a place that does Prop Scanning and get them as near to perfect as possible. The payback will be no vibration, higher top speed and improve fuel effeciency. Once they are in spec, make sure they are installed properly. I've seen a lot of yards use a big block of wood against a newly tuned prop blade to tighten the shaft nuts. This basically undoes what you just paid to have fixed. I had my props done when the boat was brand new and top speed increased to 41mph from 39 and mpg went to .9 from .8.

 

[osd9]

Vince:

I use Atlantis Propeller and I highly recommend them. I've been a customer of theirs for over 10 years now.

They do offer a free pick up and delivery....Pt. Pleasant area....and they will loan you a prop puller for free.

Ray, the new owner, and long time onsite technician for the previous owner, is a pleasure to work with. He helped me dial in both sets of my props on my current 410DA-D. Once dialed in, he offers a half price special to clean, polish and tune.

Give him your specs....HP, Trans ratios...both Fwd and Rev., max Achievable WOT RPMs the way they are and the desired maX WOT RPMs and he'll work with you to get it right.

As stated by sbw1 above, properly installing the newly scanned props is very important. I am guilty of the 'wood block' technique myself, but I try to be very carefull....not ideal, but I've had luck.

Getting off the props, even with a prop puller, may not be easy without either a good torch and/or a hydrualic puller. You can try yourself, but I'd also get a quote from the yard where you are stored and then decide from there.

 

[my3sons]

Some questions. Can the prop with the missing metal be repaired? Any thoughts on Atlantis Propeller? other recommendations? Is it worth me pulling the props myself or should I just have the marina take care of the entire project? My boat is stored in the Bayville, NJ area.
Vince

Vince, I am in the process of having mine done now. I also went with a propscan dealer. He scanned them while I watched and was very helpful in answering all my questions.
I had one prop overall within category 1 and the other ever so slightly out, but there were individual blades on both that fell slightly out. He is going to gather some more info, and may change the pitch as well. I had taken several rpm readings over the summer at WOT, and when averaged together, they were turning up about 250 RPM over spec. I mention this because he left me with the impression that he wanted more info before changing pitch than just the photos of my digital readouts. Sounds like they know what they are doing.
Yes, nibral can be welded, and missing metal added then worked to a finish.
As far as removing the props, I paid $38.50 to have them removed (1/2 hour labor, which means they must have come right off). However, I am going to put them back on in the spring.
Here's an old thread, hope it helps

http://www.clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28402

Good luck

 

[Vince_nj1]

Thanks for all of the replys. I called Atlantis this morning and spoke to Ray, the owner. Just as OSD9 described, Ray was very helpful and offered to mail the prop puller to me. He estimated $100 per prop if they were in Category 1 specs but not more than $200 per prop. He guessed that the yard may charge me $100 each to remove and reinstall the props.

Since I am a DIY person, I will probably attempt it myself. If I can't get them off, I will ask the yard to do it. It might be a few weeks before I get around to removing them, but I will post an update when I do.

Thanks everyone.

 

[rondds]

Vince, you can't go wrong with Atlantis. I took the ride over there and they have quite an operation. Very efficient and knowledgeable, esp about the specs on SRs. They'll likely be able to tell you what works best for your boat from their own experience.

Getting the props off is easy but you need a puller. There's just no other way. Little boats like ours don't usually require hydraulics but you might need to apply some heat. I borrowed a puller from Jon (Corona Del Mar) and mine popped like a champagne bottle.

 

[larrytbull]

so you guys have a good experience with atlantis? I talked to ray this week as well, he was really nice, I explained i wanted to dial in my 4 blade, but he did not seem to show knowledge about what he has done with sea rays my size. I got a different response when I called black dog propellers in MD (also prop scan). they right away knew the correct size and they told me right away that I got my prop wrong size i should have had a 16 x 17 rather than a 17 x16. so now I am torn, both are prop scan shops, antlantis is more convenient, as i can drive to them, but black dog seems to know the boat....

 

[Alex F]

Vince,

I also used Atlantis and will go back to them with all my props. They're great and as Dom said, Ray is a pleasure to deal with. I got the prop puller from them and it wasn't a big deal to get thm off. So, you'll be fine. Just make sure to keep the nut on the shaft to control the popping momentum and protecting yourself.

Good luck,
Alex

 

[Vince_nj1]

Update. I pulled the props 2 weeks ago and they are at Atlantis. I had both props off in less than 1/2 hour. The prop puller worked like a charm. Neither prop met the Class 1 spec, so the repair charge will be $200 each. I have not got them back yet.

 

[Alex F]

When you get them back they'll look as new.

When I did mine, one prop was already class 1 but nother didn't. I wander why SR didn't make sure that both props are class 1? I'm guessing that as long us the boat's performance matched the specs they don't bother with anything else.

 

[Vince_nj1]

Alex
Both props had some damage from touching the bottom. I just assumed that they got bent in the process. I am looking forward to next spring launch to see the difference. My top speed at the end of this season was 26.8 knots at 4800 RPM's. 1 person on board, empty water tanks, empty holding tank and 1/4 tanks of fuel. When I drove her home from Maryland, I was hitting 25 knots at 3950. 2 people on board, full fuel. (I realize that bottom growth played a big role as well). I am hoping to get back to the original numbers.

 

[searay40dad]

When I bought the boat, she had two similarly damaged wheels. When I had them reconditioned 4 weeks ago the shop told me one wheel had some serious damage, it had also been heated up and hammered during a previous repair. Despite the damage, they said they could probably get it to Class 1 specs but were doubtful it would end up Class S. When I picked them up, the LH was Class S and the RH was Class S in 4 of 5 zones...the area closest to the hub was just out. here's a link to the ISO specs if interested. http://www.coastalprop.com/tuning.htm

Here's a before shot...alot of nicks, dings, and bent blades...
View attachment 12611

...and after...
View attachment 12612

When I closed up the boat a couple weeks ago I lugged these silly things home. Told my wife I wanted them close to help me get through the long winter. When I walk by 'em I get aroused. She thinks I'm nuts but I can't help it.

 

[Alex F]

Alex
Both props had some damage from touching the bottom. I just assumed that they got bent in the process. I am looking forward to next spring launch to see the difference. My top speed at the end of this season was 26.8 knots at 4800 RPM's. 1 person on board, empty water tanks, empty holding tank and 1/4 tanks of fuel. When I drove her home from Maryland, I was hitting 25 knots at 3950. 2 people on board, full fuel. (I realize that bottom growth played a big role as well). I am hoping to get back to the original numbers.

Vince,
Obviously there's some performance catching up to do. But, no worries once the props are tuned and the bottom is cleaned and new paint is on you should be fine. The important part is that your engines are able to turn 4800RPMs. However, as I recall you have 5000RPMs rated engines, so with such a light load
(no water, low on fuel, no crew, etc.) I would prefer to see that number. You need to talk to Ray and see what he suggests. May be twicking the props is required. But, I would verify the rated RPMs first.

According to the 2004 matrix I have it's 5000rpms engine.

2004 320DA TVD-MX 6.2 MPI (T-320 PHP) MCM V-DR.INBOARD 2.00:1 PROP, 18"X 19"X 3.55" "C" RH 1752166 5000

What was your best RPMs when you got the boat and at the begining of the season?

 

[Vince_nj1]

View attachment 12612

Nice repair job! Looks like jewelry :grin:


Alex, I might have been able to get 5000 rpm's, but I didnt want to run that hard for that long. I was on my 2nd year on the bottom paint and knew my props were off a little. I backed off the throttles after about 30 seconds. My old marina painted the bottom and they used the same paint to paint all of the metal surfaces. As you can see, that doesn't work very well. The bottom wasnt too bad, but all metal surfaces had growth.

 

[Alex F]

...
Alex, I might have been able to get 5000 rpm's, but I didnt want to run that hard for that long. I was on my 2nd year on the bottom paint and knew my props were off a little. I backed off the throttles after about 30 seconds. My old marina painted the bottom and they used the same paint to paint all of the metal surfaces. As you can see, that doesn't work very well. The bottom wasnt too bad, but all metal surfaces had growth.

The bottom growth should affect the speed, but not so much the RPMs. I think the part of the problem in your WOT test is that you only allow 30sec (as you said), which isn’t enough time, IMO, to get to the true WOT range. I’m not an expert but I’ve read that some surveyors prefer to run at WOT for like 20min or so to make sure nothing goes wrong and engines don’t overheat. I’d never allow this on my boat, but I also don’t see any harm keeping her at WOT for couple of minutes. She’s a big girl and needs some time to get through the wind, waves and current to demonstrate all that she’s got. So, I suggest to do the same and give her some more time than just 30sec to get the more accurate readings.

Also, I hope you’re not using the paddle wheel for speed measure, it’s always off (at least on all the boats I had) by at least 4-5MPH. I use GPS SOG readings.

 

[fwebster]

Ever the pragmatist, the photo of the boat above shows a bottom that is going to seriously impact performance. I think there is enough slime and hard growth on underwater surfaces to increase drag substantially and, therefore, decrease rpm. On the one shaft visable, the hard growth showing will probably cut into WOT some but not a lot since the prop is clear, except for slime, which should burn off.

I tend to agree that 20 minutes at WOT is excessive, unless you are being chased but something bigger and meaner than you. However, 30 seconds isn't enough time to allow the hull to develop its full lift and stabilize. On a boat I don't know, it takes me 2-3 minutes to get her hooked up and trimmed for max speed.

 

[320Bob]

Vince,
FrankW, as usual, is spot on. We have the same boat, year motors etc. and at the end of the season with "hair" growing out of my bottom I got only 28 mph and 4300 rpm at WOT. With a clean bottom those numbers were 34.4 mph and 4850 at WOT.

 

[Alex F]

.....and at the end of the season with "hair" growing out of my bottom I got only 28 mph and 4300 rpm at WOT. With a clean bottom those numbers were 34.4 mph and 4850 at WOT.

Bob,
Were both tests done with loaded or light boat and I assume in similar waters and the conditions?

Man, that's some thick "hair" to loose so much in perfromance.

 

[320Bob]

Bob,
Were both tests done with loaded or light boat and I assume in similar waters and the conditions?

Man, that's some thick "hair" to loose so much in perfromance.

The conditions other than the bottom of the boat were similar. The water temperature on the river got over 80 degrees this summer which I was told increases algae and the nasty duck weed growth. My bottom got pretty fouled in just over two months in these conditions since I put it back in the water in early July after the running gear repairs. I was truly surprised at how much difference it made in performance. At 3500-3600 rpm cruise my gas consumption went up 5 gph or 20%.

 

[Alex F]

Bob,

I will assume that part of the issue is that you didn't have a chance to use the boat frequently. So, if the boat was sitting for a while I'm not surprized with the amount of growth on the bottom.

There're couple of things you can do to have better control of the bottom even when you don't use the boat frequently:

1. Have a diver to clean the bottom. Usually it's not an expensive job. If I recall correctly it can be around $70-$100. Some have it even for less. I dive, so renting a tank and doing my own inspection/cleaning was easy. But, I know how I use the boat and this procedure isn't necessary for me.

2. Some marinas have mid season bottom cleaning specials with good discounts for short haul out and pressure washing the bottom.

3. Periodically, while hanging on the hook I take a rag, jump in (sometimes with a PFD) and go over the boat cleaning everything I can reach with my hand. This also prevents the yellow stains build up at the water line. If I would see a build up I would use the regular boat brush and brush the bottom as far as I can reach (that's another way saving $70 for a diver).

If I would see .5 at my cruising speed I would frick out. But, that's just me.