Hull Experts - Potential Moisture Issue? Video inside...

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douglee25

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2008
4,758
Dallas, TX
Boat Info
Cruisers 3575
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Twin 7.4l
Well round 2.... Here we go again. First boat a 400EC failed survey due to a wet stringer.

I increased my budget and went to a nicer looking and well maintained 2000 380 DA. We started with the out of water survey first today. We started sounding the hull and found an area that sounded off to both of us. The surveyor and I even called the shop onsite that specializes in fiberglass repair for their input.

There are no penetrations in this area of the hull. It's a SERF HIN, so it should be solid cored below the water line. The area in question is right at the front of the bow. There are zero stress cracks, no softness, no flexing, nothing. The fiberglass guy looked down the strake and it's perfectly straight. It doesn't 'appear' to have been repaired ever, and again, such an odd place?

The guys agreed to leave it out of the water for 1-2 days to really dry it out in order to come back and see if a moisture reading would tell any further story by doing a comparison with surrounding areas. Of course IF it was my boat they could grind into the area to see if it is wet and or possibly just a dry layout due to lack of resin.

Any thoughts how to proceed? Check out this video and listen for yourself.

[video]https://www.dropbox.com/s/v0nwr41uw4wjayr/13326.3gp?dl=0[/video]
 
The area is adjacent to the bow thruster. I would like to hear what the port side sounds like for comparison. Like you said that area is solid glass. I would tend to not be concerned. Also moisture meters don't work well in the area where there is bottom paint.
 
Difficult to do, but try to determine history on a boat that age. Remember Sandy.
 
The area is below the waterline. It would be an easy job to drill test holes (about 3/16ths") in the hull, keeping all the holes in the bottom painted area. Drill the dead area as well as in the area around it. You or the fiberglass guy should be able to tell what is going on fairly easily. It is possible to have a delamination in a solid hull and there to be seawater in the delaminated area. Repairing a bunch of small holes is cheap and easy because you don't have to lay in any fiberglass. But, the good news is there isn't usually a major structural issue with a delamination out in an open area of the hull like that......and the repair cost is low because the repair is in the bottom paint and not involving gelcoat work fairing and refinishing.
 
fwebster said:
The area is below the waterline. It would be an easy job to drill test holes (about 3/16ths") in the hull, keeping all the holes in the bottom painted area. Drill the dead area as well as in the area around it. You or the fiberglass guy should be able to tell what is going on fairly easily. It is possible to have a delamination in a solid hull and there to be seawater in the delaminated area. Repairing a bunch of small holes is cheap and easy because you don't have to lay in any fiberglass. But, the good news is there isn't usually a major structural issue with a delamination out in an open area of the hull like that......and the repair cost is low because the repair is in the bottom paint and not involving gelcoat work fairing and refinishing.
Click to expand...

If there is delamination without any water in the area, does it have to be repaired? Or can it be left as is?
 
Immediately no, but it could get worse so you should at least plan on it.

If you leave it it could start flexing, in which case you will get cracking and it will get sea water into it making it even worse.


Also as mentioned moisture meters are almost never corrrect on bottom paint. In addition a boat I sold had moisture detected on a non-cored hull side very early in the AM and then 2 hours later when the surveyor was showing the potential owner it was gone. The surveyor thinks it was dew on the inside (it was one of those mornings with extremely heavy dew). Letting the subject boat sit a day or two may show no issues.
 
douglee25 said:
If there is delamination without any water in the area, does it have to be repaired? Or can it be left as is?
Click to expand...

That is difficult to answer without seeing the area ground open. A delamination is caused by a faulty bond between layers of the fiberglass, so the strength of the hull is in question if you do not repair it. If you do not repair and document the repair, the boat has a damage history and the dead spot will turn up again whenever you decide to sell or trade the boat, at which time, you then own the problem. You really can't tell where the delamination stops without opening it up. Delaminations tend to grow until they reach an area where the layers of fiberglass are properly bonded. The good news is that below the water line it is an easy repair that shouldn't be very expensive. However, with "Pros" like surveyors involved, somebody has already brought up "wet or rotten coring" so the fiberglass guys are primed for the worst and when that happens, they usually find it because the guy paying the bill is already expecting bad news.

Sea Ray has repaired delaminations for owners in the past, but these days, there are some very tight constraints on good will warranty coverage. If you buy the boat, your chances of getting coverage is nil because you are not the original owner. The present owner might, provided he is the original owner or has owned the boat a long time and has a service history where the boats continued maintenance can be verified at a Sea Ray dealer. This is certainly worth mentioning to the seller in case he happens to be in a position to ask SR Customer Service to help out.

I am assuming that you have a contract to purchase this particular boat and were surveying it as one of your contingencies. At this point, I think the best approach is to reject the boat because of a soft or delaminated spot in the hull.....you don't know which because the scope of your survey did not include any destructive testing, like taking core samples at the dead spot. Then add that you will complete the deal if the seller repairs that spot to your surveyor's satisfaction. That way, he still owns the problem until it is repaired to your satisfaction so you are protected and still buy the boat you want.

Good luck with it............
 
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I appreciate everyone's feedback on the subject. Always nice to bounce some ideas off of for additional clarity.

The surveyor went back today. No change in sounding and oddly enough, the moisture meter saw no change either...even after drying 1.5 days in Texas heat.

The surveyor and I agreed something isn't right and neither one of us could reach the broker for authorization on destructive testing. I sent a formal rejection email to the broker and seller this evening with the notion if they decided to document the repair, we would still be interested.

Unless I hear differently, that's failed boat #2 at this point. I may take some time off. My wallet can't handle many more of these failed surveys! Haha.

The search continues!
 
Today the owner authorized the marina to do some destructive testing on the area.

I mispoke earlier and the issue is actually both the port and starboard, not just the starboard side towards the bow.

I should have some answers by tomorrow if I'm lucky.
 
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doesn't sound like anything I wold be worried about.
 
For some reason I can't get any remote hosted photos to show. I put them on a drop box link above.
 
I'm helping a friend find a boat and we're running into the same issues with surveys. We're looking at smaller, cheaper boats, but even so inventory is low and only surveyors are happy.

I've seen meters and hammers lie before. It's frustrating, but good news!
 
RollerCoastr said:
I'm helping a friend find a boat and we're running into the same issues with surveys. We're looking at smaller, cheaper boats, but even so inventory is low and only surveyors are happy.

I've seen meters and hammers lie before. It's frustrating, but good news!
Click to expand...

Funny you mention that. I noticed the same thing. Inventory seems low. Everyone I spoke to said things will pick up after July 4th, but I've yet to see any change. I see maybe 1 or 2 boats added per week to yachtworld in the size and price I'm looking at.
 
Following you quest for a new boat :)

I realize hammering fiberglass is a age old technique and a common practice but, I've never really had much faith in it. Makes me wonder if your first boat had a problem or not?

Good luck with your search..
 
douglee25 said:
Funny you mention that. I noticed the same thing. Inventory seems low. Everyone I spoke to said things will pick up after July 4th, but I've yet to see any change. I see maybe 1 or 2 boats added per week to yachtworld in the size and price I'm looking at.
Click to expand...

It's confusing. You'd think that a strong market and consumer confidence would lead to high activity in both selling and buying, but of course resulting in some inventory. Are we still dealing with fallout from Sandy and low production during the down-turn?

I was talking to a broker on Monday. I said, so this is what we're looking for if you see anythi... He cut me off. "There's nothing. I can't find boats to sell."
 
Air O'Nautical said:
Following you quest for a new boat :)

I realize hammering fiberglass is a age old technique and a common practice but, I've never really had much faith in it. Makes me wonder if your first boat had a problem or not?

Good luck with your search..
Click to expand...

It definitely did. We pulled out some screws and stuck a screwdriver in the hole.... definitely wet.

But you do bring up a good point about how accurate this method is?

Doug
 
RollerCoastr said:
It's confusing. You'd think that a strong market and consumer confidence would lead to high activity in both selling and buying, but of course resulting in some inventory. Are we still dealing with fallout from Sandy and low production during the down-turn?

I was talking to a broker on Monday. I said, so this is what we're looking for if you see anythi... He cut me off. "There's nothing. I can't find boats to sell."
Click to expand...

Ha. That's pretty funny.
 
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