How To Replace and Improve the Sea Ray Systems Monitor

Thought I would clarify what has been said on the backup and restore functions using an USB100 or IPG100 with N2K Analyzer. And go one step further.

You can run the DSM250 emulator installed with N2KAnalyzer or download it from Maretron directly. But either way you launch it, then create a working functional DSM file then restore it to the real DSM on the boat. using the methods described above and in @dtfeld post.

What I have learned using Maretron equipment, is if you program any of the devices in use on the N2K network using the Maretron labels, when you program the DSM just select label as the device or field name. When using the emulator on a PC not connected to the boats N2K network the labels will not be listed as they are when you program the DSM directly. Thats ok, after the file is downloaded and is running on the boat's network the label name will be displayed.

This save some time and PITA programming on the display itself, but not all of it. Things like alarms can only be stared as the external alarm will need to be selected when the DSM is on the N2K network.

Alarms/alerts can have it's own thread as they can get complicated, like instance(s) can. If your using the Maretron Alarm module (ALM100) or the DCR100 for zoned alarms.
 
Hello, I’ve read this post from start to end over several nights. Thank You to all for the massive amount of information. My situation is a little different and I didn’t see it covered. I have a new to me(2 years) 2000 410EC with the SR Systems Monitor. It still functions properly but is causing a 8.5V parasitic draw on my port side battery bank with the batteries off. Breaker off-no draw(.75V) as is the starboard bank. I’ve tried disconnecting the port engine oil pressure alarm sender, coolant temp alarm, (no trans alarms) and the forward bilge and forward bilge alarm and sump pump all individually while checking the draw. Still there. I’ve disconnected the display at the helm(12V+) and still have the draw. Also disconnected the alternator. I suspect the unit in the engine room where all the alarm wires go but don’t want to replace a working system if it’s possibly a sender or something else just to have the same parasitic draw. Any insight is appreciated. Awesome forum! Thank You.
 
It still functions properly but is causing a 8.5V parasitic draw on my port side battery bank with the batteries off.

I’ve tried disconnecting the port engine oil pressure alarm sender, coolant temp alarm, (no trans alarms) and the forward bilge and forward bilge alarm and sump pump all individually while checking the draw.

Given that the unit is generally meant to be always on, I don't see how it could NOT cause a "parasitic" draw of some sort.

8.5V seems a bit much, though.

Two thoughts: How are your batteries and charger? And maybe a connector or two at the unit in the bilge might be loose or corroded.

If your batteries are on their last legs or if your charger isn't performing well, I could guess a constant load might be showing up faster, or might be more problematic.

If a connector or two on the unit down below is loose or rusted or otherwise shaky then maybe increased resistance is a factor. Is that where you tried the various disconnects?

You'll probably get better info from some of the other folks here, though.

-Chris
 
Thanks for the speedy reply Chris. The reason I knew I had a problem is when I bought the boat the first battery in the port bank died. I replaced them both and after less than two years, same thing. The first battery in the port bank is dead again. Therefore, I started looking into it and noticed the large draw on the Port bank from the SR systems monitor. I don’t leave my charger on 24/7 because I believe they tend to overcharge and can encourage electrolysis on older, less than perfect boats. I realize now, I need to inspect the starboard engine sending units and the generator being that they are also involved with the Systems monitor even though they’re on the starboard bank and gen has its own battery. Also, I’m waiting on a multimeter with 12V DC Amps which I understand is a better measurement of what’s going on.
Thanks.
 
Hello, I’ve read this post from start to end over several nights. Thank You to all for the massive amount of information. My situation is a little different and I didn’t see it covered. I have a new to me(2 years) 2000 410EC with the SR Systems Monitor. It still functions properly but is causing a 8.5V parasitic draw on my port side battery bank with the batteries off. Breaker off-no draw(.75V) as is the starboard bank. I’ve tried disconnecting the port engine oil pressure alarm sender, coolant temp alarm, (no trans alarms) and the forward bilge and forward bilge alarm and sump pump all individually while checking the draw. Still there. I’ve disconnected the display at the helm(12V+) and still have the draw. Also disconnected the alternator. I suspect the unit in the engine room where all the alarm wires go but don’t want to replace a working system if it’s possibly a sender or something else just to have the same parasitic draw. Any insight is appreciated. Awesome forum! Thank You.
There are two 12 volt circuits for each of the Port and Starboard battery banks - One switched and one Unswitched. The Switched are those that the battery disconnect switches turn on and off like engine starter circuits, lights, house circuits, audio, etc. The Unswitched circuits do not get disconnected with the battery switches like bilge pumps, CO monitors, Stereo memory, Systems Monitor, Battery Charger, etc.
For all of the unswitched circuits there will be a parasitic draw from the batteries desired and undesired. Desired would be draw for the Systems Monitor and Undesired would be from something like an electrical leak in defective bilge pump wiring. Every Unswitched circuit has a circuit breaker or fuse.
I assume you mean Amperes rather than the Volts you indicate above. First to check the Amp gauge disconnect the shore power then remove the ground wiring from the batteries and verify the gauge needle does, in fact, to go zero. Then after restoring battery power but leaving shore power disconnected turn off the battery switches to determine if the current flow is from the Switched or Unswitched legs. Then sequentially turn off each circuit breaker and pull each fuse to determine where the current is flowing.
The SR Systems Monitor should be around 1 amp demand unless in alarm.
As an edit you should always leave the charger/converter on to keep the batteries healthy. Electrolysis or better known as galvanic corrosion should not be a concern if your galvanic isolators and bonding system is healthy.
 
Regarding Fuses - the fuses for the CO monitors and Stereo memory are behind the main power panel and the fuses for the battery charger/converter are under it's front cover.
 
Having a hard time understanding what an 8.5V draw is. Do you mean when the monitor only is powered your battery voltage reads 8.5V? Or 3.5V?

I do agree that it sounds like you have something draining your battery and that it’s likely a bad or corroded connection. Could be a failing component, too, like a with an internal short. You’ve taken some steps to isolate some possible offenders, and ruled them out, which is good. But I don’t know from your description that it’s definitively the monitor that is draining your battery. Have you been able to isolate it so that it is the only thing connected to your batteries? If you were to cut the power to it, does the drain disappear?
 
To re-iterate what is said above, you mean amperage when you reference parasitic draw right? Voltage is not a draw, amperage is. You also reference 8.5v? That isn't right under any condition. In a 12 system you should always read above 12v or something is amiss. Bad battery, dirty connections etc. follow Tom's advice on isolating the culprit.

But with regards to batteries, if you have two in parallel and need to replace only one, then there is an issue there unto itself. Batteries in parallel need to be treated as one. If one gets replaced you need to replace both. Otherwise the stronger battery will always be charging the weaker one. Also if you have a newer charger like a ProNautic 1250P (ProMariner) that is microprocessor controlled then you should leave it on 24/7. They are designed to condition the batteries and will get you longer life. If you don't have a microprocessor controlled battery charger then you need to get one, or you will be replacing batteries often, as they tend to cook the batteries and create what you are seeing.

A note on the System Monitor, your engine alarms are actually switches on the engine(s) that are switched to ground when active. So when not in an alarm condition you will see an open or infinite resistance and when in an alarm condition it should be switched to ground. Same with bilge pumps, when not operating then infinite resistance, but when active you will see 12v. Not all of the sensors act the same, but when possible they are switched to ground for safety.
 
Thanks for the responses guys. I’ll try to be more descriptive. I’ve had the boat for two years. My first season, the first battery in the port bank cooked. It was a run away battery that was overheating/venting and making an audible hiss. I immediately shut off the charger and batteries but it didn’t stop. Pretty scary. Had to hold my breath and disconnect the grounds to get it to stop. Replaced the port batteries. This year, same thing without the drama. First battery in the port bank dead and dragging down the second battery. I was told the first battery in the bank will take the brunt of abuse in a situation like this. Discharge/recharge constantly. This is when I figured I had a problem. Started searching with my Volt meter I had on the boat.(volts only) NO 12V DC Amp meter yet. Shore power disconnected. Both panels open. With all breakers off, negative cables removed, I started checking each breaker one at a time. Negative battery post to disconnected negative cable. That’s when I noticed the SR Systems Monitor with breaker on was drawing 8.5 Volts while every other breaker was less than 1 volt. Breaker off was less than 1 volt. (Actually the 2 brand new blowers showed 2 volts. 1 on each bank). I know volts isn’t the proper measurement but that didn’t seem right and is the only thing on the port bank that seems wrong. The boat is 23 years old and may have some poor connections. I’ve re-attached several bonding wires as I find them. I will measure amps in the next day or two. I did hear or read that nothing should be above 1 amp when not activated. The boat has the original Promatic charger which seems to work properly and I haven’t ruled out replacing it, but it seems I have another issue that has to be addressed first. I also have not been able to find a CO detector on this boat. Is it possible my 2000 410EC didn’t come with one? I’m using a battery powered home style CO detector. I’ve been boating for 40 years and do most of my own work. I am more of a wrencher that an electronics guy but with your help, know I can figure this out.
Thanks again, I’ll report back when I get an amp reading on the draw.
 
Started searching with my Volt meter I had on the boat.(volts only)

That’s when I noticed the SR Systems Monitor with breaker on was drawing 8.5 Volts while every other breaker was less than 1 volt.

Maybe what you are measuring is available DC voltage at some particular physical location? If so, that's not a "draw". (Amps would be a "draw" = current flowing.) OTOH, if you're seeing 8.5V somewhere, that could suggest there's significant voltage drop along the way and/or maybe that battery bank is hosed.

Are you using a multimeter? Or do you mean your using some kind of voltmeter built into the boat? If the latter...

Get a multimeter (sounds like you're pursuing that already?) Then measure voltage at the battery bank that feeds your system monitor -- ideally after that bank has been "resting" (charger not on) for 4-6 hours or so.


The boat has the original Promatic charger which seems to work properly and I haven’t ruled out replacing it, but it seems I have another issue that has to be addressed first.

Promatic? I've heard of ProMariner... and the charger model for your generation would have been a ProTech. Or maybe Promatic is a model made by somebody else? Mastervolt? Charles? Victron? Or...?

-Chris
 
Thanks for the responses guys. I’ll try to be more descriptive. I’ve had the boat for two years. My first season, the first battery in the port bank cooked. It was a run away battery that was overheating/venting and making an audible hiss. I immediately shut off the charger and batteries but it didn’t stop. Pretty scary. Had to hold my breath and disconnect the grounds to get it to stop. Replaced the port batteries. This year, same thing without the drama. First battery in the port bank dead and dragging down the second battery. I was told the first battery in the bank will take the brunt of abuse in a situation like this. Discharge/recharge constantly. This is when I figured I had a problem. Started searching with my Volt meter I had on the boat.(volts only) NO 12V DC Amp meter yet. Shore power disconnected. Both panels open. With all breakers off, negative cables removed, I started checking each breaker one at a time. Negative battery post to disconnected negative cable. That’s when I noticed the SR Systems Monitor with breaker on was drawing 8.5 Volts while every other breaker was less than 1 volt. Breaker off was less than 1 volt. (Actually the 2 brand new blowers showed 2 volts. 1 on each bank). I know volts isn’t the proper measurement but that didn’t seem right and is the only thing on the port bank that seems wrong. The boat is 23 years old and may have some poor connections. I’ve re-attached several bonding wires as I find them. I will measure amps in the next day or two. I did hear or read that nothing should be above 1 amp when not activated. The boat has the original Promatic charger which seems to work properly and I haven’t ruled out replacing it, but it seems I have another issue that has to be addressed first. I also have not been able to find a CO detector on this boat. Is it possible my 2000 410EC didn’t come with one? I’m using a battery powered home style CO detector. I’ve been boating for 40 years and do most of my own work. I am more of a wrencher that an electronics guy but with your help, know I can figure this out.
Thanks again, I’ll report back when I get an amp reading on the draw.

So many issues in this statement that lead back to the same thing. You need to get away from stating @ volts. I know you said that is wrong and you are correct. Measuring voltage in this case isn't going to tell you much. Except that there may be a connection issue somewhere causing the voltage to be less then the 12.x volts it should be at. You can have 12.x volts and be drawing little to no current. The presence of voltage does not mean you are drawing any current for the most part. Anything that is powered but not turned on should be drawing almost zero amps. Your System Monitor will draw some current because it is always on.

Your battery charger is definitely bad. That old charger when new was bad, the only thing it can do is cook your batteries as you are seeing. Until that is replaced, replacing batteries is what you WILL be doing. And as mentioned they should be done in pairs. Get your batteries load tested to see how "good" they actually are and replace the ones that are bad.

You have diesel boat, CO is not an issue from the exhaust from your gen/engines. Diesels do not make any registerable amount of CO. That said, you should absolutely have CO detectors in the salon and state rooms. CO can come form other boats around you and you won't know it. Search that here, there are many threads on this, so I am not going to recommend what you should get. I have store bought CO detectors on my boat.

So given the information in your original post and what battery charger you have, I am going to say you issues are the batteries and charger. Your charger seems to be cooking the batteries and your replacing only one at a time and then the good battery is being drained by the other bad one and it becomes a vicious circle. So I wouldn't worry about finding a particular device drawing to much current, I doubt that is the issue here. The fact that your seeing less then 12v at breakers and not keeping your charger on all of the time. I think you are seeing actual battery voltage at that time.

After your charger has been off for an hour or so, measure the voltage at your batteries. If there is less then 12v noted then that is your first problem and that bank needs to be replaced. At the same time you still can diagnose your low voltage at the breakers. Turn the charger on and you can measure the voltage at the breakers. But start at the batteries and note what the voltage is exactly. Then move on to the breakers.

I have a dock friend that is going through the exact same thing right now. I got involved last weekend and his batteries were a disaster. One bank was almost zero volts with the charger off and the other was ~6v. He has an older charger that just cooks the batteries. This weekend he is replacing al four batteries and I am changing out the charger with a ProNautic 1250P with him. There are other chargers that may be better like MasterVolt and Charles but the ProNautic is proven by many here in this forum including myself.
 
So many issues in this statement that lead back to the same thing. You need to get away from stating @ volts. I know you said that is wrong and you are correct. Measuring voltage in this case isn't going to tell you much. Except that there may be a connection issue somewhere causing the voltage to be less then the 12.x volts it should be at. You can have 12.x volts and be drawing little to no current. The presence of voltage does not mean you are drawing any current for the most part. Anything that is powered but not turned on should be drawing almost zero amps. Your System Monitor will draw some current because it is always on.

Your battery charger is definitely bad. That old charger when new was bad, the only thing it can do is cook your batteries as you are seeing. Until that is replaced, replacing batteries is what you WILL be doing. And as mentioned they should be done in pairs. Get your batteries load tested to see how "good" they actually are and replace the ones that are bad.

You have diesel boat, CO is not an issue from the exhaust from your gen/engines. Diesels do not make any registerable amount of CO. That said, you should absolutely have CO detectors in the salon and state rooms. CO can come form other boats around you and you won't know it. Search that here, there are many threads on this, so I am not going to recommend what you should get. I have store bought CO detectors on my boat.

So given the information in your original post and what battery charger you have, I am going to say you issues are the batteries and charger. Your charger seems to be cooking the batteries and your replacing only one at a time and then the good battery is being drained by the other bad one and it becomes a vicious circle. So I wouldn't worry about finding a particular device drawing to much current, I doubt that is the issue here. The fact that your seeing less then 12v at breakers and not keeping your charger on all of the time. I think you are seeing actual battery voltage at that time.

After your charger has been off for an hour or so, measure the voltage at your batteries. If there is less then 12v noted then that is your first problem and that bank needs to be replaced. At the same time you still can diagnose your low voltage at the breakers. Turn the charger on and you can measure the voltage at the breakers. But start at the batteries and note what the voltage is exactly. Then move on to the breakers.

I have a dock friend that is going through the exact same thing right now. I got involved last weekend and his batteries were a disaster. One bank was almost zero volts with the charger off and the other was ~6v. He has an older charger that just cooks the batteries. This weekend he is replacing al four batteries and I am changing out the charger with a ProNautic 1250P with him. There are other chargers that may be better like MasterVolt and Charles but the ProNautic is proven by many here in this forum including myself.

So glad you wrote this. I read the comment earlier but was on the road and was not about to reply via my cell phone.

In simplest terms, voltage doesn't flow and it's not drawn. It's a measurement of electronic potential ("electronic charge") at a single point. Current (amps) flows, not voltage (volts).

When you measured voltage, to what did you connect the black wire of your multimeter? Assuming you connected it to a grounded location on your boat, you were on the right track. If you connected it elsewhere, or left it floating, your readings are not reliable.

Disconnecting everything and turning off all breakers and then measuring voltage at various points showed your breakers were working properly (on the devices that read no voltage). It also showed you that the Monitor was directly connected to the battery (otherwise it would have read 0V, too). So like Skybolt said, the fact that you read 8.5V likely means the voltage from that battery bank was 8.5V. Not good, of course, for a 12V battery bank. Once they read under 12V in a relaxed state (not being charged), they are dead.

Why are they dead so soon? SB hit that nail on the head, too. You were worried about keeping your charger plugged in because the charger would cook the batteries, but the charger cooked the batteries anyway. Replace the charger immediately. I went through a similar issue on my 400 the first 2 seasons I had the boat. Replaced the batteries twice. Then the charger completely gave up the ghost and I had to replace it. I went with the ProNautic 1240P. Four banks: Port, Starboard, Genset, expansion. Decent price, works well, supports multiple battery technologies... Haven't had a battery problem since, andI buy cheap lead acid batteries. I leave it plugged in all the time. Think about it: If your boat takes on a little water and the bilge pumps start kicking, how long do you have until they drain the batteries and your boat ends up on the bottom? Better to keep the batteries on the charger so the bilge pumps keep working if they are needed!

Once you replace the charger and the batteries, I bet you'll read higher than 8.5V at the Monitor.

And if you're worried about the cost of all this, don't be. People are always looking for a replacement Systems Monitor on CSR, so we see the prices. The cost of a new charger and new batteries will likely be less than the cost of a replacement Systems Monitor. Especially if you can save a few of those batteries.

Good luck!
 
Thanks for the replies. As I stated, I’m more of a wrencher but learning fast. I’m a visual learner and electricity is invisible. Makes a little more sense to me when I see it on paper. I am learning the difference between volts, amps, ohms, capacitors, diodes etc. Most of my electrical work on my boats has been with a test light. Fixed many issues with it. But this is obviously more complicated. I know I need an amp meter to measure the draw now and will check it soon. I did replace BOTH batteries on each bank. Port 2 years ago, and starboard last year. When individually tested a couple weeks ago, the first battery on the port bank tested bad. The second was good but I replaced both again. All four batteries now test good and hold 12.6-12.8 volts rested. With the charger on, voltage goes to 14.4V. If I leave the Systems Monitor breaker on, batteries off, charger off, the port bank will drop to maybe 12-12.2V over about 2 weeks. That doesn’t seem right. Is it bad batteries? I guess it’s possible.
Does the charger need replacing? Most likely. That’s why I don’t leave it on 24/7. Can’t thank you guys enough. I’ve learned more on this website and boatdiesel.com (my first diesel) than all of high school
 
BTW here’s some pics of my charger and set up
DC22436F-F43A-4B24-ACAF-688E94C89CC0.jpeg
EDD3A289-3CDC-4DC1-AE16-31168CF72345.jpeg
C046540B-DC56-467C-AA2F-E4375E547923.jpeg
 

That is an old constant volt charger, not as old as I thought originally but is not an auto float charger. That may be worse then the previous version in that when it goes bad it can actually put out almost 16v. If it's not outputting 16v it doesn't mean it is good.

That charger is what deemed the term "constavolt". It just keeps outputting ~13.6 volts and doesn't stop. It will cook your batteries just as fast as the older one did. That charger was supposed to float charge, say supposed to because it never really worked that way. And was one of Sea Rays favorite chargers.

A little history on battery charger names. The first ProMariner chargers were called "inverters" because thats what they did. They took 110v AC and inverted it to 12v DC.

Then your version was deemed "constavolt" because they output a constant 13.6v DC. all day long. Constant voltage.

Now they finally are called what they should have been originally, battery chargers. And inverters are just that an inverter that has nothing to do with battery charging, but takes 12v DC and inverts it to 120v AC.


You need to load test your batteries individually, not while in parallel and replace as necessary (Although they should be replaced in pairs). Then get a new battery charger. I truly believe your are fighting dead batteries because of the charger. And your not drawing to much current when things are off.
 
Thanks for the replies. As I stated, I’m more of a wrencher but learning fast. I’m a visual learner and electricity is invisible. Makes a little more sense to me when I see it on paper. I am learning the difference between volts, amps, ohms, capacitors, diodes etc. Most of my electrical work on my boats has been with a test light. Fixed many issues with it. But this is obviously more complicated. I know I need an amp meter to measure the draw now and will check it soon. I did replace BOTH batteries on each bank. Port 2 years ago, and starboard last year. When individually tested a couple weeks ago, the first battery on the port bank tested bad. The second was good but I replaced both again. All four batteries now test good and hold 12.6-12.8 volts rested. With the charger on, voltage goes to 14.4V. If I leave the Systems Monitor breaker on, batteries off, charger off, the port bank will drop to maybe 12-12.2V over about 2 weeks. That doesn’t seem right. Is it bad batteries? I guess it’s possible.
Does the charger need replacing? Most likely. That’s why I don’t leave it on 24/7. Can’t thank you guys enough. I’ve learned more on this website and boatdiesel.com (my first diesel) than all of high school


The voltages you are questioning here look good to me and seem normal. You should be able to leave the charger on 24/7 and the batteries on as well. There shouldn't be an issue if you do, if still as wired from Sea Ray. For now I would leave the charger on 24/7 and see how that goes for a week, but keep in mind it should be upgraded.
 
Thanks. All four batteries were tested individually with a newer battery tester that is supposed to load test but I have my doubts. The boat is laid up and I'm there almost weekly working on something. When I leave, everything is off. I even shut the breaker for the stereo memory but noticed the port bank was loosing voltage. I wasn't shutting the breaker for the Systems Monitor though. I took the port bank batteries home to charge originally because I know my charger at home and can tell if its taking a charge or not. After confirming with a battery tester, one was bad and I replaced both. I was suspect of my boat charger even though its self described as variable charger. I will change it out as soon as I confirm with an AMP meter that I don't have a serious draw.
When I test for a parasitic amp draw, should I do what I've been doing? That is to disconnect the negative cables and test between the negative battery post and negative cable, checking each breaker individually? Thanks again.
 
All four batteries now test good and hold 12.6-12.8 volts rested. With the charger on, voltage goes to 14.4V. If I leave the Systems Monitor breaker on, batteries off, charger off, the port bank will drop to maybe 12-12.2V over about 2 weeks. That doesn’t seem right. Is it bad batteries? I guess it’s possible.

Yes, it's possible to drop from 12.6-ish to 12.0-ish over 2 weeks. Not great, though. Partially a feature of flooded lead acid batteries. And more likely with cheap batteries. It also suggests you've maybe got some other kind of constant load there too, not just the systems monitor. Some other typical "always on" loads include stereo memory, CO detectors, bilge pumps, horn compressor, maybe some others...


A little history on battery charger names. The first ProMariner chargers were called "inverters" because thats what they did. They took 110v AC and inverted it to 12v DC.

FWIW, our ProMariner ProTech1240 (from 2002) was labeled as a "converter" -- and I've seen others in the AC-to-DC direction labeled that way too. Seems the DC-to-AC direction is consistently labeled "inverter" these days...

-Chris
 

Forum statistics

Threads
112,950
Messages
1,422,893
Members
60,933
Latest member
juliediane
Back
Top