How much AF?

Discussion in 'Winterizing' started by boatman37, Sep 23, 2018.

  1. boatman37

    boatman37 Well-Known Member

    Jun 6, 2015
    pittsburgh
    2006 Crownline 250CR
    Previous: 1986 Sea Ray 250 Sundancer
    5.7 Merc
    Started winterizing my boat today. 2006 Crownline 250CR w/Merc 5.7. Got the poo tank emptied out and put 1 gallon of AF in the head and pumped until it was empty but thinking I need a little more than that? I was planning on running the macerator to get pink in the thru hull line and seacock. I'm sure there is probably a little waste still left in the bottom of the tank so thinking a few gallons on AF would be better?

    Filled the fresh water tank and added 1/2 gallon of bleach and let it set for a few hours. Ran that through all the faucets (cabin, bathroom, cockpit sink and transom shower). Bypassed the water heater but drained it and opened the bypass to add a little pink to it. Used 1 gallon in the head and 3 gallons in the fresh water. Is that normal? Planning on buying another 5 or 6 gallons this week to add to the head and fresh water and to do my AC. I bought a drill mount pump and plan to run the AF into the thru hull and back to the AC thru hull intake. Figuring 1 gallon for that?

    Also bought 7.5 gallons of the AF with corrosion inhibitors for the engine but haven't got that far. Going to order one of those Camco winterization kits today to do the engine. I store underground in a mine that never goes below 55* but this past year it was 20* the week after we pulled our Sea Ray out of storage. I had always winterized it too but just drained everything and left it empty.

    So about how much AF should I go through? 1 engine, AC, fresh water tank (about 30 gallon), 6 gallon water heater but bypassed, no gennie and the head with macerator? Figuring not including the engine I will go through about 10 gallons but at ~$3/gallon I'd rather be safe than sorry.

    Next question...there is a well (or sump) under my cabin step with a bilge pump and float. There is also a plastic box with 3 hoses going into it. 1 appears to be the shower drain, 1 seems to be the bathroom sink, and not sure what the 3rd is unless it is an outlet? Anyway, this box has a clearish lid and I can see that it is full and leaking out around the edges into this well. What is the purpose of this box? Is there a pump inside it? If there is then mine must not be working? That 'well' that it sits in doesn't appear to go anywhere. I don't see any drainage holes or anything in it so it just sits there and fills with this water until the pump kicks on?
     
  2. Bugsy22

    Bugsy22 Member

    37
    Jun 2, 2016
    1000 islands region New York
    00' 310 Dancer w/ 5.7 EFIs and Bravo 3s. Recently purchased after having a 90' 270 Dancer for sever
    5.7 EFIs w/ Bravo 3s
    The 3rd line in the Bilge box is more than likely the drain for the AC drip pan. There is a pump in it with a plastic filter. It could be plugged, regardless it has to be emptied. Remove the screws and use a shop vac to get rid of the water.
    Not sure on your plan for AC. IMO a better idea is to remove the hose from the seacock , insert a funnel and pour antifreeze in. Make sure to cycle between heat and AC. BTW Its a 2 person job, you in bilge and someone at thermostat. Ours takes about 2 gallons to do. Dont forget to leavr seacock open once its on the trailer.
    Make sure engine is up to temp and tstat is open before you start running antifreeze through it. 4-5 gallons is more than enough. Good luck.
     
  3. boatman37

    boatman37 Well-Known Member

    Jun 6, 2015
    pittsburgh
    2006 Crownline 250CR
    Previous: 1986 Sea Ray 250 Sundancer
    5.7 Merc
    Thanks. Boat is already on the trailer. So leave the AC seacock open all winter?
    You are probably right about that 3rd line being AC. Not sure how much fun that will be getting that lid off...lol. It's under the step and off to the side. Can't even see the other side of it but I'm sure I can get it.

    So I have to run it in heat mode too?
     
  4. bbwhitejr

    bbwhitejr Well-Known Member

    Apr 14, 2013
    Lake Lanier GA
    2007 44DB
    Cummins QSC 8.3s
    Drain bypass and drain HWH-no need for AF. Drain FW tank and remove hose from tank to pump. Hook a hose from AF to pump inlet and use FW pump to charge lines with AF. Turn pump on with AF hooked up, go to each spigot and turn on until pure pink comes out. Shut off pump. Open, drain, and close AC seacock leaving the lid off. Fill the seacock with AF and have someone turn on the breaker. Keep pouring into the seacock until AF exits the thru hull. Shut AC down and put top on seacock.

    Remove blue plugs and drain engine block and manifolds. Replace the blue plugs and remove the 3-hoses from thermostat housing. One at a time, fill each one with AF and replace them. It will take about 4-gallons of AF. AC will take and freshwater plumbing will take 3 or so.

    Done if no gen. Adding AF to HWH and FW tank only makes it a pain to rid the system of the taste next spring. Even is a minimal amount of water is left in the tanks, it will not be enough to harm anything.

    I used to do mine and several others this way after recommended by a well known member on here. Ours stayed outside all winter.

    Bennett
     
  5. boatman37

    boatman37 Well-Known Member

    Jun 6, 2015
    pittsburgh
    2006 Crownline 250CR
    Previous: 1986 Sea Ray 250 Sundancer
    5.7 Merc
    Thanks for sharing that. Definitely sounds easier that way. I was only putting a little AF in the HWH just to be safe but you are saying a little in there won't hurt?

    Doing the AC like you said won't work with no shore power and no 15A to 30A adapter but your way would be easy too.

    Mine looks like there are 5 blue plugs (1 each manifold, 2 on seawater pump, 1 down low on front of engine). Might be more but that's all I have seen so far. Planned on pulling those to poke around and clear as much crap out of there as possible then reinstall and run to temp then add AF to the water source (muffs).
     
  6. gdavis67

    gdavis67 Active Member

    111
    Mar 1, 2017
    Saugatuck, MI
    1990 390ec
    Twin 454 Mercruiser T 340 with Hurth drives
    Rule of thumb - it is the small places that water gets trapped in that create issues: pumps, drain traps, water lines, sea cocks, faucets, etc. Large volume spaces with a little water are not an issue. As the water freezes it expands, thus damaging it's "container". Tanks with a small amount of water (couple of gallons) won't rupture IF they freeze.
     
  7. wayne0

    wayne0 Member

    362
    May 4, 2014
    Newburyport, Ma.
    2000 340 Sundancer
    Twin 7.4 ltr.V-drives
    For the AC, use the pump and a hose to run pink back thru your AC outlet until it comes out the intake. I do this every year on the hard.
     
  8. boatman37

    boatman37 Well-Known Member

    Jun 6, 2015
    pittsburgh
    2006 Crownline 250CR
    Previous: 1986 Sea Ray 250 Sundancer
    5.7 Merc
    That was my plan. I bought a pump that runs off a drill for this.
     
  9. Jeff Delbuono

    Jeff Delbuono Member

    112
    Jun 11, 2018
    Edison new jersey
    1998 sea ray 290 sundancer
    5.0 efi
    When your talking about the ac. you saying put a hose to the outlet on the side of the boat and fill till it comes out the inlet on the bottom of the boat? Sounds easy but making sure thats what u are saying
     
  10. boatman37

    boatman37 Well-Known Member

    Jun 6, 2015
    pittsburgh
    2006 Crownline 250CR
    Previous: 1986 Sea Ray 250 Sundancer
    5.7 Merc
    Yes. I have seen youtube videos showing it. My other thought was to rig up my fresh water pump to the AC inlet and run it. I'm not going to use this method but wondered if it would work
     
  11. Jeff Delbuono

    Jeff Delbuono Member

    112
    Jun 11, 2018
    Edison new jersey
    1998 sea ray 290 sundancer
    5.0 efi
    Do i run the ac when doing this?
     
  12. boatman37

    boatman37 Well-Known Member

    Jun 6, 2015
    pittsburgh
    2006 Crownline 250CR
    Previous: 1986 Sea Ray 250 Sundancer
    5.7 Merc
    Not in the video I watched. If you run it then you would need to put the AF in from the intake side
     
  13. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    Get a little hand pump or use a drill pump.
    Rig up a hose to your pump that you can shove in the AC outlet on the side of the boat.
    You’ll probably have to hold the hose in place while you pump.
    Leave AC seacock open.
    Pump antifreeze in out let until it comes out the bottom of boat and you’re done.
    Takes less than a minute to do.
    I leave all seacock open over the winter.
    I also like to backflush the AC before I winterize it.
    Basically, just stuff nozzle of garden hose against outlet on side of boat and flush fresh water backwards through the system for a couple of minutes.
    Clean out strainer, and then winterize.
     
    Alegria likes this.
  14. boatman37

    boatman37 Well-Known Member

    Jun 6, 2015
    pittsburgh
    2006 Crownline 250CR
    Previous: 1986 Sea Ray 250 Sundancer
    5.7 Merc
    Did my AC system tonight. Bought one of those drill pumps last week. Backflushed the system by running water in thru the thru hull and out the pickup then cleaned the strainer (it was clean but still checked it). Bought one of those winterization kits from West Marine last week so put a gallon of AF in it and connected the lines. Put the AF container up on the ladder to help gravity feed it too. Ran the drill and had a small towel wrapped around the end of the hose. Watched the water coming out the bottom of the boat until I saw pink. Went up and looked at the strainer and it was full of pink. Oh, I emptied the strainer after back flushing to get the water out before running the AF through it. Very simple. Maybe a 10 minute job with 2 people.
     
  15. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    That’s the way to do it. Goes faster each year once you have everything you need all set up.
     
  16. boatman37

    boatman37 Well-Known Member

    Jun 6, 2015
    pittsburgh
    2006 Crownline 250CR
    Previous: 1986 Sea Ray 250 Sundancer
    5.7 Merc
    Yeah. I did the old boat but had no AC, water heater, or head to do (porta potty that wasn't used). Took us about 45 minutes to do the AC but most of that was figuring out how to do it. Once I get a system down it will be much easier. But yes, backflushing the AF through the AC system was definitely simple and easy.
     
    JVM225 likes this.
  17. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    This is one of my concerns about allowing owners of any make/model boat to join a brand specific forum like clubsearay.com. You are asking specific questions about winterizing, yet most of the respondents are Sea Ray owners and other than general knowledge of the winterization process, they have no clue about the plumbing, the vendor supplied components or specific designs of a Crownline 250. This is the reason I don't participate in these types of threads.......I've got nothing against other brand owners and I am not a brand snob; I just don't comment when I don't know what I am talking about and I know nothing about Crownlines, Tiaras, Regals, etc. I just don't want the responsibility of providing you information that may cause something to freeze and cost you a fortune to repair next spring.

    I suggest you get out your owner's manuals and be sure the advice you are receiving fits with your plumbing design, engines, waste systems, etc.
     
    Jus the two of us likes this.
  18. stevediarchangel

    stevediarchangel Member SILVER Sponsor

    152
    Jun 28, 2015
    New York
    99 340 Sundancer
    7.4 Mercruiser w V drives
    Good morning - I think I am late to this and it looks like you have gotten great advice. Yes, assuming similar set up, the drain under the stairs is from the shower. I usually clean this out and all internal pumps and compartments that run bow to stern so they don't fester and grow something scary during the winter. I run pick through the shower pump - meaning pour it down the drain in the shower area, which will fill up that clear plastic housing and if the pump is working it will pump out and you should see pink. I do the same in the back, open and clean it out and run pink. I leave a little pink in both. I even pour a little bit into the AC tray in the front of the boat. The AC system has been covered...hope this helps. On the hot water heater, I am old school - I don't by pass, I spend some extra money about $30 and drain the hot water heater, run pick through all the spickets and leave some in the hot water tank. Good luck!
     
  19. boatman37

    boatman37 Well-Known Member

    Jun 6, 2015
    pittsburgh
    2006 Crownline 250CR
    Previous: 1986 Sea Ray 250 Sundancer
    5.7 Merc
    Appreciate that Frank but figured most AC systems were similar, as well as engines. The fresh water system might be a little different but from what I have been reading many manufacturers use the PEX tubing. Having never owned a boat with AC or a water heater I was mainly looking for the best ways to so it. My owners manual says nothing about winterizing the AC or water systems. I do have manuals for those systems but didn't look to see if there was anything covering that.

    Either way, everything is done except the engine. Planning to do that Monday. Next year will be much easier now that I have been though it once.
     
  20. Alegria

    Alegria Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2009
    Lancaster,PA Boat: -Sue Creek, MD
    2000 410 DA
    3126 CAT
    Exactly. I have the orange hand pump you can buy on amazon or harbor freight. Put one end in the AF put a piece of duck tape on the output end, push it into the AC through hull and pump away. You will see the AF come out from under the boat when the raw water circuit is full. I would recommend you use a shop vac and suck all the water out of the strainer, then it will fill with AF and come out the bottom... Easiest part of my winterization!!
     

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