Amberjack01
Member
Thanks!
I'll let you know how it goes.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Hot Stbd Riser
- Thread starter H2ONUT
- Start date
PlayDate
Well-Known Member
gmcleer said:
To sort this out, I need you to buy or borrow a Infrared Temp gun so that we can check the temps on the manifolds, risers, elbows and tstat housing. Having accurate temp readings are essential to solving this type of problem. Warm up the engine and take readings. That will point us to the source of the problem.
You can purchase an IR temp gun for $50-60.
-John
H2ONUT
Well-Known Member
John, I got the t-stat put back in the correct way with the right gaskets. All temps are good with me but one. The port manifold is around 120* and the elbow around 110*.
The stbd manifold is 150* and the elbow is 110* also.
The reading on the intake manifold where the t-stat bolts to is reading 160*.
I still have a lot of steam, never had it before, even 2 or 3 weeks ago when I started figuring out the original elbow getting hot issue...
The temp on the t-stat housing at the sender for the gauge is 160* which is what is showing on the dash. The top of the t-stat housing is 90*.
River temp is 72*.
Am I just paranoid? :smt017 :smt101
T-stat is a 140* stat.
The stbd manifold is 150* and the elbow is 110* also.
The reading on the intake manifold where the t-stat bolts to is reading 160*.
I still have a lot of steam, never had it before, even 2 or 3 weeks ago when I started figuring out the original elbow getting hot issue...
The temp on the t-stat housing at the sender for the gauge is 160* which is what is showing on the dash. The top of the t-stat housing is 90*.
River temp is 72*.
Am I just paranoid? :smt017 :smt101
T-stat is a 140* stat.
H2ONUT
Well-Known Member
I took all my readings after the temp gauge stopped moving.
PlayDate
Well-Known Member
H2ONUT said:
Port manifold seems a little low. I know you are thinking the starboard one is high but if you remember how the water is flowing it makes sense for it to be closer to what the starboard reading is. IR guns are not perfect. Do me a favor and touch both to see if there really is a 30* difference.
On to the steam issue. Is it steaming at idle or at speed? Speed is no big deal. An engine running 3000 rpm putting out 2000* at the exhaust port boils water pretty quickly. Steaming at idle on a cold or warm (not hot) engine is another matter.
-John
PlayDate
Well-Known Member
H2ONUT said:
I assume the engine was still running?
PlayDate
Well-Known Member
gmcleer said:
Just warm the engine up to operating temp 160*.
-John
H2ONUT
Well-Known Member
Steam is after a hard run, or just after coming off cruising speed. It is when the temp gauge spikes to 180 or 190 and then when the temp gauge drops, the steam goes away.
There is a noticible difference in the way the two manifolds feel.
Yes, the motor is running and at 1500 rpm while taking the readings.
There is a noticible difference in the way the two manifolds feel.
Yes, the motor is running and at 1500 rpm while taking the readings.
PlayDate
Well-Known Member
H2ONUT said:
The steam is ok. As I mentioned, steam at idle when the engine is not hot is the thing to look out for.
I'm curious about the manifold difference. Can you shoot a picture of the tstat housing and hose configuration. If you can, put a piece of tape on the hoses and annotate where they go before you shoot the picture. I believe in a previous post you indicated that the hose configuration/housing was different than the diagrams. While you are at it a picture of each manifold would also be useful. I'll pm you my email address because posting limits the image quality.
BTW I'm not worried at all about your temp numbers....I just am really curious abou the 30* operating difference. Several things could explain it. I might have you swap the manifold feed hoses at the tstat housing (which will probably require some additional lengths of hose) to see if the problem switches sides.
Also, you have done a great job of working your way through this.
-John
H2ONUT
Well-Known Member
John, in the diagrams offered on the Mercury site, I have the standard cooling design I (one).
I will take pics this weekend and e-mail them too you.
Thanks again so much for your time... :wink:
PS... In the diagrams, there is a diagram for standard cooling w/ alpha. I have an alpha drive. Is it possible I have the wrong stat housing?
I will take pics this weekend and e-mail them too you.
Thanks again so much for your time... :wink:
PS... In the diagrams, there is a diagram for standard cooling w/ alpha. I have an alpha drive. Is it possible I have the wrong stat housing?
PlayDate
Well-Known Member
H2ONUT said:
It's possible. That's why I wanted to see what it looked like. Sometimes people replace things with what they have on the shelf. Buy some hose so that we can try swappling the manifold feeds. That is far easier to do than swapping the manifolds. Let me know.
-John
H2ONUT
Well-Known Member
Well, I'm still overheating.
I swapped hoses at the dock, checked all the hoses for flow and they looked good.
Took her out for a ride and the temps climb.
I'm just gonna bite the bullet and replace the riser elbows, and haul her out and look at the impeller again. Might just buy a whole new kit for that also...
If I still have issues, I AM LOST!!!!!!
I swapped hoses at the dock, checked all the hoses for flow and they looked good.
Took her out for a ride and the temps climb.
I'm just gonna bite the bullet and replace the riser elbows, and haul her out and look at the impeller again. Might just buy a whole new kit for that also...
If I still have issues, I AM LOST!!!!!!
PlayDate
Well-Known Member
H2ONUT said:
Are the temps different than what you posted? 160 at the manifold, 160 on the gauge and 110 at the elbows? Those temps are ok. Running at 3500 rpm temps will climb to around 180 After a hot run, temps can climb to 200+ but will settle down after 4-5 minutes. I don't want you to waste your money.....the elbows appear to be ok.
Also, when you ran without the tstat I thought you indicated it never got above 140 (even with a bad manifold). If the engine itself is getting a lot hotter than the manifolds, then there is potentially a blockage in the block itself. I have been concerned about this since you found the port manifold obstructed. That material came from someplace.
I know this is frustrating but post what temps you are seeing....they are the best way to figure this out. Also, when you swapped hoses did the manifold difference change sides?
-John
H2ONUT
Well-Known Member
John, when I made the run on Friday night, all the temps stayed within 150. All of a sudden, the temps spiked to 220, the alarm went off. I shut her down, waited for 15 or 20 minutes, and it wouldn't start. I got into the dock just in time.
It does start again, but I just ran it for about 2 minutes. Haven't started it up again since Saturday.
Sunday, I did push water thru the hoses between the manifolds and elbows, stbd side flows nice, port side is a little slow, but flows. Water flows good thru the block and the water heater lines also.
It does start again, but I just ran it for about 2 minutes. Haven't started it up again since Saturday.
Sunday, I did push water thru the hoses between the manifolds and elbows, stbd side flows nice, port side is a little slow, but flows. Water flows good thru the block and the water heater lines also.
YIKES.
It hurts me to even READ the post.
Is it possible you sucked something against the water intakes?
I pulled some swamp grass into one of my drives last weekend as I was trolling through a no-wake zone. I saw churned up green stuff in my prop wash . . . . The engine was not happy when I throttled up after clearing the no-wake zone. I shut down the engine and I noted a small pile of green leaf crap floating away off of my stern. . . . upon inspection, the drive intakes were clear . . .and after restart the engines acted normally.
I suspect that some green stuff was held up against the intake due to the "sucking action" of my drive pump. Once the pump shut down. . .the "stuff" floated off. I have seen identical behaviour running jet skis.
If your water flow system is clear. . .and you still have the problem. . .you may have some screwy intermittent problem with either the raw water pump or the circulating pump. (although. . .I am not sure how a mechanically driven pump can have an intermittent problem like that. . . .)
It hurts me to even READ the post.
Is it possible you sucked something against the water intakes?
I pulled some swamp grass into one of my drives last weekend as I was trolling through a no-wake zone. I saw churned up green stuff in my prop wash . . . . The engine was not happy when I throttled up after clearing the no-wake zone. I shut down the engine and I noted a small pile of green leaf crap floating away off of my stern. . . . upon inspection, the drive intakes were clear . . .and after restart the engines acted normally.
I suspect that some green stuff was held up against the intake due to the "sucking action" of my drive pump. Once the pump shut down. . .the "stuff" floated off. I have seen identical behaviour running jet skis.
If your water flow system is clear. . .and you still have the problem. . .you may have some screwy intermittent problem with either the raw water pump or the circulating pump. (although. . .I am not sure how a mechanically driven pump can have an intermittent problem like that. . . .)
PlayDate
Well-Known Member
I guess the best way to capture the emotion on this is that everyone on this site wants to see you boating instead of fixing your boat.
The problem you describe happens all the time on the Potomac. From water plants to plastic bags the raw water intake gets blocked and within moments the engine alarm sounds. It even happened to me last weekend going to Georgetown.
This past weekend, I ran over a patch of leafy stuff when I was on plane and when I came to the no wake zone, the starboard engine started to overheat. One look at the exhaust port and no water was coming out.
It was a brand new impeller so I knew that wasn't the issue. I popped the top of the strainer with the seacock open and very little water flowed out. It normally flows like a garden hose. I tried to use the fresh water pump to backwash the hose but it didn't get the job done. I limped home on one engine and used dock water pressure and bingo the line cleared and the water flowed. Same thing happened to the generator four weeks ago.
You should check your raw water pressure with the engine running normal just to get a visual on how much water the impeller is moving. It's best to do that when the engine is cold.
With all the work you have done, I believe you have resolved the original issue (clogged port manifold). Take it out again and run it. I'm betting you have it right and the raw water intake just sucked up some trash.
-John
The problem you describe happens all the time on the Potomac. From water plants to plastic bags the raw water intake gets blocked and within moments the engine alarm sounds. It even happened to me last weekend going to Georgetown.
This past weekend, I ran over a patch of leafy stuff when I was on plane and when I came to the no wake zone, the starboard engine started to overheat. One look at the exhaust port and no water was coming out.
It was a brand new impeller so I knew that wasn't the issue. I popped the top of the strainer with the seacock open and very little water flowed out. It normally flows like a garden hose. I tried to use the fresh water pump to backwash the hose but it didn't get the job done. I limped home on one engine and used dock water pressure and bingo the line cleared and the water flowed. Same thing happened to the generator four weeks ago.
You should check your raw water pressure with the engine running normal just to get a visual on how much water the impeller is moving. It's best to do that when the engine is cold.
With all the work you have done, I believe you have resolved the original issue (clogged port manifold). Take it out again and run it. I'm betting you have it right and the raw water intake just sucked up some trash.
-John
H2ONUT
Well-Known Member
Just an update...
I have a new intake manifold coming. The one I took off I was able to lightly poke a screwdriver thru the bottom of the recess for the t-stat housing, and in one area by the exhaust crossover.
The new riser/elbows are in and waiting for install. I'm also waiting for a "complete" outdrive water pump assembly. I hope to have a very positive update by next Friday... :smt001
BTW, the manifold is an Edelbrock 2104. I'm getting it anodized black.
I have a new intake manifold coming. The one I took off I was able to lightly poke a screwdriver thru the bottom of the recess for the t-stat housing, and in one area by the exhaust crossover.
The new riser/elbows are in and waiting for install. I'm also waiting for a "complete" outdrive water pump assembly. I hope to have a very positive update by next Friday... :smt001
BTW, the manifold is an Edelbrock 2104. I'm getting it anodized black.
H2ONUT
Well-Known Member
Hey John, guess what I just discovered...
The water pump in the outdrive has the WRONG pump base. There are 2 pump bases. One is for the "R" drive with a pre-load pin, and one is for the "MR" drive without the pre-load pin. I have the "MR" drive... :smt021 I feel like an ARSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, the long of it all, it that my cooling system is now BRAND NEW... :grin: and my wallet is empty... :smt089
The water pump in the outdrive has the WRONG pump base. There are 2 pump bases. One is for the "R" drive with a pre-load pin, and one is for the "MR" drive without the pre-load pin. I have the "MR" drive... :smt021 I feel like an ARSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, the long of it all, it that my cooling system is now BRAND NEW... :grin: and my wallet is empty... :smt089
Asureyez
New Member
- Apr 22, 2007
- 1,535
- Boat Info
- Sea Ray 460 Sundancer Hardtop 2001 - SOLD
- Engines
- Cummins 450 Diesels
If I was a Betting Man ...
My money is on debris in the heat exhanger. Running with out a thermostat will allow more water volume to flow early in the warm up period, but in high revs the debris is just oo mcuh restriction and the engine temp shoots up.
Check that heat exchange end cap for debris. Remove both ends and look through the unin for clogs and impellar vanes.
Blown head gaskets allow somthing to escape ... coolant into the oil pan or the bilge, Oil into the coolant or the bilge ... or exhaust fumes into the ER.
If our impellar is not broken, and the sea strainers are clear and the thru hull is not clogged, then my money is on the heat exchanger at the raw water intake end being clogged.
My money is on debris in the heat exhanger. Running with out a thermostat will allow more water volume to flow early in the warm up period, but in high revs the debris is just oo mcuh restriction and the engine temp shoots up.
Check that heat exchange end cap for debris. Remove both ends and look through the unin for clogs and impellar vanes.
Blown head gaskets allow somthing to escape ... coolant into the oil pan or the bilge, Oil into the coolant or the bilge ... or exhaust fumes into the ER.
If our impellar is not broken, and the sea strainers are clear and the thru hull is not clogged, then my money is on the heat exchanger at the raw water intake end being clogged.