honest question about boat stereo systems.....

[CliffA]

I have read many threads about various head units and speakers used on various boats...there is a current thread running its course right now in this forum.....

I have given this considerable thought.....this post is not to offend anyone.....it is an opportunity for me to be educated on a subject i don't know a lot about....

first off I appreciate great sounding music just as much as anyone, maybe better than most.....I have always loved to listen (really listen) to music and played in a few local bands growing up.....

but let's face it....IMO a boat cockpit is a lousy stage to try and achieve premium sound quality from a stereo sound system....the acoustics are practically non-existent...there are no walls or ceilings to bounce sound waves off of...the speakers are usually not positioned for optimum listening....there is usually a lot of outside noise interfering with the music.....and I assume that truly 'marine grade' components may not be able to produce the same quality sound as standard components....

with all this in mind does it really make a difference if you pay $50 for a pair of good sounding speakers or if you pay $800 for a pair of 'premium' speakers?......same thing goes for spending big $$ for a head unit and subwoofers and amps.....I certainly do not mind paying top dollar for premium things that are obviously far superior.....but in the environment of an open boat cockpit do you really notice that much difference in the sound quality?......I have been on a few boats that have multi thousand $$ sound systems and they do sound great.....but almost every time i return to my boat with my 'entry level' Polk Audio DB651 speakers playing music from my original Clarion head unit and original amps I think to myself that my system sounds almost as good as the big $$ systems.....

I am not faulting anyone for installing high quality sound components on their boat....even if they perform only marginally better than less expensive components in this specific environment.....sometimes it is nice to know you can afford to have the better things in life and enjoy them....I am just wondering if I am taking a wrong perspective on this subject.....

cliff

 

[bahamabreisus]

Cliff, we were at Lake Norman for Christmas, was going to PM you, but you know how it is. Anyway, our boat, we upgraded to the Clarions with separate tweeters, still use a better Clarion head unit than original. The biggest improvement came from a high end 700 watt amp (not clarion ). We also have a dedicated 900 watt amp for a 12" Sub. I like you am very happy with the sound quality. All this was done for around $1200, I did all the install.

 

[Cincy Aquaholic]

As someone who has done several major stereo upgrades . . . first no offense taken. Second, I think you kind of answered your own question, i.e., how much better sounding is that upgraded system compared to whatever was stock in this not so perfect environment. I think what most people are attempting to gain when upgrading to larger amps is volume. Relatively clean sounding volume. Not necessarily audiophile perfection but volume that can overcome the environment (boat noise, party noise etc) and still sound good. I know my stock systems could never satisfy that requirement without sounding like distorted crap. Subs add to the quality of sound at volume. Your stock system is certainly better than many to begin with so it all falls on a scale of dollars versus quality. Just like adding horsepower. I would think a boat that goes 60 mph is plenty fast but many people will spend exponetially more to go 65mph. Do i think that would be worth it? Nope since going WOT represents probably 1% of my boating time. But cruising with great stereo to entertain as music lovers is definitely worth it. Same reason I don't spend outrageous money on clothes. It won't change the fact that I AM the one wearing them!!

 

[CliffA]

Cliff, we were at Lake Norman for Christmas, was going to PM you, but you know how it is. Anyway, our boat, we upgraded to the Clarions with separate tweeters, still use a better Clarion head unit than original. The biggest improvement came from a high end 700 watt amp (not clarion ). We also have a dedicated 900 watt amp for a 12" Sub. I like you am very happy with the sound quality. All this was done for around $1200, I did all the install.

we were around the boat off and on over the holidays.....please do let me know next time and we will definitely try and hook up.....

sounds like the upgrades you did to your sound system did enhance the sound enough to justify the cost and time.....that's all you can ask....

cliff

 

[CliffA]

As someone who has done several major stereo upgrades . . . first no offense taken. Second, I think you kind of answered your own question, i.e., how much better sounding is that upgraded system compared to whatever was stock in this not so perfect environment. I think what most people are attempting to gain when upgrading to larger amps is volume. Relatively clean sounding volume. Not necessarily audiophile perfection but volume that can overcome the environment (boat noise, party noise etc) and still sound good. I know my stock systems could never satisfy that requirement without sounding like distorted crap. Subs add to the quality of sound at volume. Your stock system is certainly better than many to begin with so it all falls on a scale of dollars versus quality. Just like adding horsepower. I would think a boat that goes 60 mph is plenty fast but many people will spend exponetially more to go 65mph. Do i think that would be worth it? Nope since going WOT represents probably 1% of my boating time. But cruising with great stereo to entertain as music lovers is definitely worth it. Same reason I don't spend outrageous money on clothes. It won't change the fact that I AM the one wearing them!!

excellent point!.......I understand and agree that a higher volume of 'clean' sounding music can be a definite improvement in the noisy boating environment.....I can see where adding things such as amps to increase the volume can be a good idea....

cliff

 

[JimT]

I have invested considerable money in my stereo system. I was looking for very loud and very clear. I started with one amp, a sound processor, a sub and 4 speakers. Over time I added additional speakers, a second amp and a second sub. At each stage the sound noticeably improved. All of the components I installed are high end. Is all of this worth it? That depends on the person. I can say that it was definitely worth it to me.

 

[Stee6043]

It is still surprising to me how high the volume needs to be to really "hear" music even at cocktail speed (which is where I spend 98% of my cruising time).

As stated above the desire to have high quality at high volumes isn't just for the guys and gals that spend their weekends at the party coves rafted-up and partying all day long. Drowning out twins and V-drives at 7 knots is no small task.

FWIW I upgraded from stock Clarion gear to JL and Rockford Fosgate. I couldn't be happier...and I really like music. It's part of the boating experience (in my boating world) and is right up there with a cold beer.

For the guy only listening to music in the slip or at anchor I'm not sure the need is there for hundreds of watts of amplification and high-end speakers. But for the rest of us that want to enjoy the music "at almost all times" good gear is money well spent...

 

[CliffA]

Is all of this worth it? That depends on the person. I can say that it was definitely worth it to me.

thanks Jim......at the end of the day that is all that matters.......i remember reading some posts were you listed your upgrades and they are impressive....

as a first step I may replace the original small amp that powers the 4 speakers in my cockpit with a new 700 watt amp to see what that will do to increase the volume of these speakers....they have 160 watt max limit.....the 'clarity' of the sound is already satisfactory to my liking even though they are lower end Polk speakers.....i'll probably leave the original small amp in place to power the 4 speakers in the cabin since we do not listen to loud music down there....no need to replace the speakers in the cabin either.....we are not in the cabin for long lengths of time except to sleep.....

hopefully this small upgrade will be rewarding......then i'll probably consider adding a subwoofer and an amp to power it.......would I need to install bass blockers on the Polk 6.5" speakers if I add a subwoofer and amp for the bass notes?.....would that increase the clarity of the Polk speakers?......

cliff

 

[CliffA]

It is still surprising to me how high the volume needs to be to really "hear" music even at cocktail speed (which is where I spend 98% of my cruising time).

As stated above the desire to have high quality at high volumes isn't just for the guys and gals that spend their weekends at the party coves rafted-up and partying all day long. Drowning out twins and V-drives at 7 knots is no small task.

FWIW I upgraded from stock Clarion gear to JL and Rockford Fosgate. I couldn't be happier...and I really like music. It's part of the boating experience (in my boating world) and is right up there with a cold beer.

For the guy only listening to music in the slip or at anchor I'm not sure the need is there for hundreds of watts of amplification and high-end speakers. But for the rest of us that want to enjoy the music "at almost all times" good gear is money well spent...

we also use our boat at cocktail speed the vast majority of the time....I agree that it takes significant volume from the sound system to adequately overcome the sounds of the engines and transmissions to make the music clear and blend in well with the normal conversations being held in the cockpit without over powering them....it's a 'fine balance'.....

cliff

 

[SloBurn]

I mainly use my stereo to rock out at our "sandbar", with speakers mounted on transom facing out into the crowd. The best thing I ever added is a 400 watt amp. Even when we are not crankin' it, the sound is so much better-even at lower volumes. So for about $100, I now have acceptable sound quality.
My next upgrade will be an Amazon Echo, ($50) so i can control the music via voice control, and not have to go to my phone to change music and/or volume. It works great at home, so it should (?) work well on the water, too.

 

[skolbe]

I think it is all relative like everything else. If you want the best - you typically pay a significant premium. I am not a big music person on the boat - usually can only take so much loud music when rafted with a group, the quality of the system does affect how much I can take. Dock neighbors have varying degrees of stereo systems on their boats. You can tell a difference in quality between a basic upgraded system and the top high end systems. That being said - I have a triathlon bike that I paid $80 for 1 - water bottle.

 

[CliffA]

I mainly use my stereo to rock out at our "sandbar", with speakers mounted on transom facing out into the crowd. The best thing I ever added is a 400 watt amp. Even when we are not crankin' it, the sound is so much better-even at lower volumes. So for about $100, I now have acceptable sound quality.
My next upgrade will be an Amazon Echo, ($50) so i can control the music via voice control, and not have to go to my phone to change music and/or volume. It works great at home, so it should (?) work well on the water, too.

thanks.....sounds like another confirmation that adding a larger amp is a good first step.....

cliff

 

[OllieC]

Cliff,

Here's what I did in my WE (you can relate with your EC). I went with JL Audio for my AMP, M series Speakers & Sub. I also swapped out the original Clarion head unit and remote to an MP3 capable Sony with helm remote. (I should have stayed with Clarion)

For the 6.5" speakers, I would recommend coaxial. They typically have a separated woofer and tweeter and built in crossover. I upgraded to the 7.7" from JL for more dynamics.

Because I had only 2 cockpit locations, and I wanted a sub, I went with a 4 channel JL, M400/4 AMP. The front two Left and Right channels were used to power the 7.7", and the rear channels are bridged powering the sub. On these amps there is a filter switch to switch between High and Low as well as a frequency adjuster or filter on each left & right channel. This will fine tune your sub and speakers and separate the frequencies. My head unit also has a separate Sub channel.

All of my connections are line "level" which means that the speaker wires from the head unit are "not" connected to the input of the amp, it is connected with RCA style cables and are balanced.

Also, and maybe your AMP has it already - I ended up running 4/0 cable from my batts to the AMP. The cable was plummet through duct as not to chafe and is fused directly from my house battery. The AMP is switched, so when the power to the head unit is off, the AMP switches off automatically. You want a clean draw of power, these AMP don't want to fight for it.

Anyway, that is about what I remember from my install. It isn't the best, compared to some of the others on this thread, but it really does sound good. When I'm on the hook with my family and friends, having boat drinks, it sounds really fantastic at all volume levels.

Ollie

 

[CliffA]

Cliff,

Here's what I did in my WE (you can relate with your EC). I went with JL Audio for my AMP, M series Speakers & Sub. I also swapped out the original Clarion head unit and remote to an MP3 capable Sony with helm remote. (I should have stayed with Clarion)

For the 6.5" speakers, I would recommend coaxial. They typically have a separated woofer and tweeter and built in crossover. I upgraded to the 7.7" from JL for more dynamics.

Because I had only 2 cockpit locations, and I wanted a sub, I went with a 4 channel JL, M400/4 AMP. The front two Left and Right channels were used to power the 7.7", and the rear channels are bridged powering the sub. On these amps there is a filter switch to switch between High and Low as well as a frequency adjuster or filter on each left & right channel. This will fine tune your sub and speakers and separate the frequencies. My head unit also has a separate Sub channel.

All of my connections are line "level" which means that the speaker wires from the head unit are "not" connected to the input of the amp, it is connected with RCA style cables and are balanced.

Also, and maybe your AMP has it already - I ended up running 4/0 cable from my batts to the AMP. The cable was plummet through duct as not to chafe and is fused directly from my house battery. The AMP is switched, so when the power to the head unit is off, the AMP switches off automatically. You want a clean draw of power, these AMP don't want to fight for it.

Anyway, that is about what I remember from my install. It isn't the best, compared to some of the others on this thread, but it really does sound good. When I'm on the hook with my family and friends, having boat drinks, it sounds really fantastic at all volume levels.

Ollie

thanks for the ideas......

cliff

 

[Steve195]

I've been in the audio video industry for nearly 20 years. 15 in the high end residential market and the last 5 in the commercial market. Never auto or marine, but there are certain electrical and physical aspects of speakers that hold true in any environment.

First and foremost, remember that speakers create sound my moving air (molecules actually). As the sound waves travel though the air, they dissipate over time, so that's why a speaker at a louder volume can be heard further away. The closer you can get the listeners ear to the speaker, the better you are because the sound waves have to travel less of a distance and won't get muddled by the resistance of the air around the sound waves. So just having more speakers to fill the area you want to fill with sound can often help.

Higher power amps do allow you to drive speakers louder, without the amp having to work hard to produce the sound. A 400 amp delivering 100 watts of sound will sound much better than a 100 watt amplifier at full volume. That's why just adding a more powerful amp will often improve things. The other important factor to keep in mind is speaker sensitivity, which is rated in decibels (dB). Here's a good explanation of how important sensitivity is when picking speakers. (which I copied from here because Brent explains it well https://www.lifewire.com/speaker-sensitivity-3134850)

The higher the sensitivity of a speaker, the louder it will play with a certain amount of wattage. For example, some speakers have sensitivity of just 81 dB or so. That means with 1 watt, they'll deliver just a moderate listening level. But the louder you go, the more physics works against you.

That's because every extra 3 dB you turn the volume up requires double the power. Want 84 dB? You'll need 2 watts. Want to hit some nice, loud 102 dB peaks in your home theater? You'll need 128 watts.
A sensitivity measurement of 88 dB can be considered roughly average. Below 84 dB is pretty poor sensitivity. A measurement of 92 dB or higher is generally considered very good.


It's generally accepted that a 10dB increase in sound will seem to be twice as loud to the listener. So sometimes just changing speakers to more sensitive ones will let your existing setup play at a much louder level. If your new speakers were 10dB more sensitive than your old speakers and everything else remained the same, your ears (and brain) would perceive the sound to be twice as loud as before.

 

[Tonka Boater]

You have great advice on specific components from the audiophiles. However, from a regular-guy-who-likes-music standpoint, I think an upgraded system makes a huge difference. My current boat's system has been upgraded with a new marine grade head unit, amp and 6 speakers (up from the 4 stock speakers). I have 2 speakers in the bow and 4 in the cockpit. It sounds amazing compared to stock. At cocktail speed you can crank it up and it sounds crisp and clear in the cockpit but with the two speakers in the bow, the guests up front aren't left out of the fun (keep in mind, I have a 502 MAG that likes to rumble and the new system still sounds great). While anchored out, it sounds great 50 yards or more from the boat. While under speed, the music still sounds awesome -- not as good as cocktail speed but you can still enjoy the tunes.

I agree, the acoustics are not that of a concert hall but a new system is worth it in my opinion.

 

[The Bill Collector]

I mainly use my stereo to rock out at our "sandbar", with speakers mounted on transom facing out into the crowd. The best thing I ever added is a 400 watt amp. Even when we are not crankin' it, the sound is so much better-even at lower volumes. So for about $100, I now have acceptable sound quality.
My next upgrade will be an Amazon Echo, ($50) so i can control the music via voice control, and not have to go to my phone to change music and/or volume. It works great at home, so it should (?) work well on the water, too.

If your boat has WiFi...... Echo would work.

 

[Tonka Boater]

I think it is all relative like everything else. If you want the best - you typically pay a significant premium. I am not a big music person on the boat - usually can only take so much loud music when rafted with a group, the quality of the system does affect how much I can take. Dock neighbors have varying degrees of stereo systems on their boats. You can tell a difference in quality between a basic upgraded system and the top high end systems. That being said - I have a triathlon bike that I paid $80 for 1 - water bottle.

If your boat has WiFi...... Echo would work.

Correct about the wifi being required. You can get an Echo Dot and connect it to your boat's system via the aux input. Again, will you need wifi but it will be more convenient than the full-size Echo and much cheaper.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DFKC2S...&pf_rd_p=e6a23347-c2f1-470c-b84b-c2a4bdcabbe4

 

[Boston-boater]

I have the stock system that came with my boat which is not great. I was planning on upgrading to a new fusion system over the winter. For Christmas, bought my daughter a Bluetooth speaker from cambridge soundworks. Wow, amazing sound. I am thinking now that rather then go to the expense and trouble of upgrading my built in system, I will just buy a similar bt self powered speaker. Should be perfect for music in the cabin, cockpit, beach and it won't run off the boats batteries unless I am charging it. All for under 200 bucks. Seems like a reasonable alternative.

 

[Stee6043]

I have the stock system that came with my boat which is not great. I was planning on upgrading to a new fusion system over the winter. For Christmas, bought my daughter a Bluetooth speaker from cambridge soundworks. Wow, amazing sound. I am thinking now that rather then go to the expense and trouble of upgrading my built in system, I will just buy a similar bt self powered speaker. Should be perfect for music in the cabin, cockpit, beach and it won't run off the boats batteries unless I am charging it. All for under 200 bucks. Seems like a reasonable alternative.

There are some amazing BT speakers out there these days. And quite a few of them are water resistant. I could see them being pretty slick for on the beach or maybe even on the swim platform while swimming. But I bet you'll find they'll be severely underpowered to use while underway in the cockpit of your boat. Unless you're cruising with an electric trolling motor! ha.