Help me fine tune this plan

TitanTn

TitanTn

Active Member
Jul 12, 2015
386
Chattanooga, TN
Boat Info
1986 Saltare, 1998 400 Express
Engines
454 direct drive; twin 3116TA
I have all the original electronics from 1998 on my boat. Raymarine SeaTalk1 stuff. No charplotter, but everything works other than the radar.

I'd like to get the Garmin 942xs bundle with the GMR18 HD radar. I'd like to use my current instruments and autopilot. So here's what I think I need to do, but I'm sure it's half-baked, so please chime in.

I will need a NMEA 2000 network for my new electronics. But I need to get the old SeaTalk1 stuff on it, so I'll need a SeaTalk convertor with converts ST1 to STng. Here's where it starts to get fuzzy, but I think I'll then need a cable that connects the ng side of the converter to the NMEA 2000 network.

I think that should work, but who knows. Any ideas about this plan? Thanks.
 
What are you wanting to convert? You will need a new Radar and Chartplotter of the same brand. The autopilot should interface with the new stuff.

Josh
 
I want the autopilot and chartplotter to communicate with each other. My autopilot is Raytheon ST6001 and operates on the old, proprietary SeaTalk1 network. My new chartplotter and radar will be on a NMEA 2000 network. I have to convert the SeaTalk1 to NMEA 2000. The radar and chartplotter will be the same brand but it doesn't have to be the same brand as the autopilot.
 
I am just now getting involved with this but I think the autopilot is NMEA 0183 so as long as your new chart plotter is backwards comparable wit nmea0183 then it will work with the autopilot without anything special.
 
NotHerDecision said:
I am just now getting involved with this but I think the autopilot is NMEA 0183 so as long as your new chart plotter is backwards comparable wit nmea0183 then it will work with the autopilot without anything special.
Click to expand...

No, unfortunately that's not accurate. Raytheon (Raymarine) electronics operate on their own proprietary network, SeaTalk. There's SeaTalk1, SeaTalk2, and SeaTalkng. It's not too hard to convert the networks back and forth, but not all old instruments will convert over. I'm pretty sure mine will, but I'm trying to get clarity on the exact steps to make it happen.
 
TitanTn said:
No, unfortunately that's not accurate. Raytheon (Raymarine) electronics operate on their own proprietary network, SeaTalk. There's SeaTalk1, SeaTalk2, and SeaTalkng. It's not too hard to convert the networks back and forth, but not all old instruments will convert over. I'm pretty sure mine will, but I'm trying to get clarity on the exact steps to make it happen.
Click to expand...
Actually, I believe Josh is correct. Read section 2.12 of this manual (page 71) and it explains that this is the exact reason NMEA0183 ports are on the course computer. It lists the NMEA sentences transmitted and received. Hook up your new chart plotter to the old Raymarine course computer via NMEA0183 and you should be all set. The computer will then get the waypoint data it needs from the MFD when the autopilot is tracking to a route. The Seatalk cable from the St6001 control head to the course computer is just a point to point control line from the control head to the course computer. No need to make any changes with it. You still would use the control head to command the computer into auto, track and standby modes. Then the computer will exchange data with the mfd over NMEA as needed.
http://c470.jerodisys.com/470Lib/t100_300.pdf
 
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Ray makes a sea talk to sea talk ng converter that puts older generation auto pilots in the Nmea2K backbone.
 
Raymarine has a pretty good Forum for users. I can't remember the web address but if you do a search I'm sure you'll find it. Their techs are on it all the time. Several years ago one of them helped me with an autopilot problem I was having and I believe it was he same model you have.

Might be a good source for info.

Shawn
 
Well, I'm asking because I don't know for sure, but as far as I know Raytheon doesn't talk in 0183. It uses it's own language - SeaTalk. It can be converted to other networks, but I don't think I can just plug my autopilot into the new NMEA2000 network with a 0183 cable. But I'm not familiar with the "course computer." Even if it has a 0183 port, it would still have to be converted to 2000.
 
Thanks for the help, but it's not an Axiom, per my first post it's a Garmin 942. This does support 0183 but that's irrelevant. I don't have any 0183 on the boat - I have SeaTalk. It's not the same. The gateway you linked to would convert 0183 to the latest SeaTalk. But again, I don't have 0183 and don't need it.

I have read through the Raymarine forum, but their technical experts answer questions like you already know the answer and just need to be reminded. I was hoping to get some real world experience from my Sea Ray buddies here. But again, thanks for everyone chipping in.
 
Roger. Good luck. By the way, I suspect you know this, but the ST6001 is not by itself the autopilot. It's the human interface to the autopilot system, which includes the course computer (the brain), flux gate compass, rudder indicator and controller and GPS.

I think the real world experience you are getting is that most here have the gps/mfd connected to the course computer via NMEA0183. So we don't understand why that won't work in your case (well at least two of us don't). But so it is. Sounds like you may just need to hire a pro to do the install for you.
 
The course computer is a black box, typically mounted under the helm. It is where you will connect the new chart plotter to. I think that may be where you are confused. The back of the 6001 only has seatalk ports so you are assuming it doesn’t have any other connections but the nmea connection is at the course computer.

Hopefully this helps. I am doing the same as you except using furuno. I have the 7001+ raymarine autopilot. I am aware you have seatalk but your new garmin will do nmea 2000 or 0183 so you will use 0183 to connect to the raymarine autopilot and that will interface nicely. Seatalk will be out of the question once you install the new mfd/radar.

Josh
 
I think you are on a real uphill battle trying to get the NMEA 2000 PGN's, which Garmin (and many others) use and communicates with, to be compatible with the Raymarine propriety language that camps on the old NMEA 0183 data backbone. Sure, there are 0183 to 2000 converters, that's simple, but NMEA 2000 communication packets (PGN) need to be created from the old Raymarine language both directions on the backbone. I tried to find a way around using the existing equipment on my 400DA but ended up for reliability and simplicity replacing everything. I did a write up on my conversion here: http://clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/save-your-transmission-modifications.66004/#post-748141
http://clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/phase-ii-modernization-400da.76259/#post-865941
 
What model of Raymarine MFD/Radar do you have?
I had the older RL70CRC and it (and all from that family) had NMEA capabilities in addition to the SeaTalk bus.
 
ttmott said:
I think you are on a real uphill battle trying to get the NMEA 2000 PGN's, which Garmin (and many others) use and communicates with, to be compatible with the Raymarine propriety language that camps on the old NMEA 0183 data backbone. Sure, there are 0183 to 2000 converters, that's simple, but NMEA 2000 communication packets (PGN) need to be created from the old Raymarine language both directions on the backbone. I tried to find a way around using the existing equipment on my 400DA but ended up for reliability and simplicity replacing everything. I did a write up on my conversion here: http://clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/save-your-transmission-modifications.66004/#post-748141
http://clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/phase-ii-modernization-400da.76259/#post-865941
Click to expand...

Thanks for those links, and thanks for putting into words what I was thinking. At least we're on the same page that this isn't a simple cable issue. Based on some more reading I think the SeaTalk1 to SeaTalkng converter will do what I want. Not sure, but I'm going to take it a step at a time. I just got my NMEA2000 starter kit and new chartplotter/radar. So I'll let everyone know how it goes.
 
TitanTn

I want to be as helpful as possible but it seems you are either not understanding what Bill and I are attempting to help you with or you flat out don't believe us. Garmin will NOT talk with Seatalk regardless of seatalk 1,2,3,4,Ng or any other version of seatalk.

Your new Garmin uses NMEA2000 and NMEA 0183 language. Your old Raymarine uses Seatalk and NMEA0183. The common denominator is NMEA 0183. Use that from your new Garmin 942 to your old Raymarine 6001 and it will function perfectly

Here is a link from the Raymarine forum moderator saying this will work.

http://raymarine.ning.com/forum/top...tId=6492755:Comment:151960&xg_source=activity

You don't need any special converter or anything.
 
I did not read the whole thread so it may have been answered. But you just need a seatalk1 to seatalkng converter, then a seatalkng to n2k adapter cable. It is easy to do. That will get you the most compatibility. As to what exact data will transfer, can't answer that, but this conversion will adapt anything that is possible to adapt.
 
NotHerDecision said:
TitanTn

I want to be as helpful as possible but it seems you are either not understanding what Bill and I are attempting to help you with or you flat out don't believe us. Garmin will NOT talk with Seatalk regardless of seatalk 1,2,3,4,Ng or any other version of seatalk.

Your new Garmin uses NMEA2000 and NMEA 0183 language. Your old Raymarine uses Seatalk and NMEA0183. The common denominator is NMEA 0183. Use that from your new Garmin 942 to your old Raymarine 6001 and it will function perfectly

Here is a link from the Raymarine forum moderator saying this will work.

http://raymarine.ning.com/forum/topics/st6001-autopilot-to-garmin-740s?commentId=6492755:Comment:151960&xg_source=activity

You don't need any special converter or anything.
Click to expand...


I do appreciate your help, and I don't mean to seem indifferent to it. The issue (like any topic found on interwebs) is that there are many opinions and most of them conflict - or at least have partial truths. Or maybe in some cases there's more than one right answer.

The bottom line is that I have a decent understanding of what's going on, but I'm not certain because I haven't lived through it yet. Here's what I do know: My Raytheon network doesn't operate on 0183. It's SeaTalk. It's not the same. The autopilot is a "bridging component" so it will also connect to 0183. What I'm not clear on is if this bridge communicates all of the data available on the SeaTalk network or just the autopilot data. What I also know is that my new Garmin 942 chartplotter supports 0183 but it doesn't have a specific port for it. I can't connect from the 0183 autopilot to the 2000 chartplotter unless I use a converter cable.

If I had a 0183 chartplotter then I would think I could connect the autopilot directly to the plotter, but again I don't know if it would also communicate the instrument data on the SeaTalk network. But I'm obviously not going to build a new system solely on 0183 components. Not even sure if I could anymore.

I'm very willing to be corrected if I'm overlooking something, so please let me know if see something I don't.
 
I think I understand where the confusion is now...

You are saying you have old stuff that runs on Seatalk and new stuff that will run on NMEA2000. So you are thinking of incorporating the 2 networks. I am thinking differently... I am thinking you need to build a new NMEA 2000 network and the only old item you will be using is the autopilot, which will run on NMEA0183, so it will communicate with the new Garmin 942 without anything special.

Now that means your instruments wouldn't be on the new network, and mine isn't either but I don't care. I have an ST60 tridata and I am leaving that with the current transducer installed as a backup. I will install a new heading sensor and transducer that interfaces with the new network so I will have heading, sounding, temp, and depth on my chartplotter.

All that being said, the cost to do it "my way" would be a heading sensor and transducer so let's say 500.00 bucks. This would give you an independant temp, depth, and speed system, new more accurate heading sensor (which I think you need to overlay radar anyway)

If you do it "your way" you buy 300.00 worth of conversion gear and have old systems without the new transducer and backup...

Just my .02 for the day.

Josh
 
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