Heads-Up - Markolon Problems

[fwebster]

This is a heads-up for those of you who have or might be considering installing Makrolon sheeting in place of isinglass or Strataglass on your clear panels.

Makrolon is a clear or tinted polycarbonate sheet that has a scratch resistant and UV coating applied to it. There are 12-13 different Makrolon products and Makrolon AR-2 is the correct one for use on boats, if you choose to use it. Unlike EZ2CY, Makrolon seemed like a great approach because it can be sewn on conventional canvas sewing equipment and does not need to be heat sealed into a panel. Similarly, it is free from the maintenance and handling needs we have with Strataglass or isinglass.

We began seeing Makrolon in this area in 2007 and I installed it on all of the clear panels in my boat above the windshield. In 2009 we began to see some of the panels fail. Failure looks like the photo below:


The stbd and center panels were replaced in 2009, now the port panel has failed. The failure seems to occur either in the coating or between the coating and the Makrolon. When it fails, the panels begin to yellow, get cloudy and get crazing or lots of minute cracks between the coating and the sheet beneath. The crazing may appear sooner and be more noticeable in bends. My boat isn’t the only failure here either. Roughly ½ the owners who installed it are having failures.

Makrolon is expensive @ about 3X the cost of Strataglass when freight is factored in, so naturally I am looking for a longer service life than 2 years. I discussed the failures with the canvas shop that did the work, with the vendor he purchased the Markolon from and finally got access to the Sheffield Plastics warranty.

The vendor (one of the largest plastics companies in the nation) admits that the normal service life before the yellowing, crazing and cloudiness renders the panel useless is about 2 years. The vendor will not warranty the Markolon since “Makrolon used for marine applications and in sheet thickness of less than ¼” has no manufacturer’s warranty.” Even if the manufacturer would replace the Makrolon, the warranty excludes removal and replacement. This is a substantial cost on a canvas boat top sine the clear panels would have to be completely remade and the zippers and snaps refitted and reset. Here are excerpts from the Sheffield plastics warranty:


“Subject to the conditions and definitions contained herein………….”

“CONDITIONS”
“This warranty applies only when the Product is used in flat, vertical, architectural glazing, excluding specifically sloped glazing; transportation; and outdoor recreational and off-road vehicle applications. This warranty only applies if the Product is cleaned and installed in sash according to Sheffield Plastics recommendations (see reverse side for
cleaning recommendations). This warranty does not cover (re)installation expenses or any other direct or indirect loss(es) which may result from the sheet failure.

“In no event shall this warranty cover the cost of
removal, reinstallation, transportation and handling, or similar costs.”



I am at the point where my canvas top needs to be replaced and I am not going to use Makrolon again. In fact, in my opinion, Markolon is clearly not suitable for use in marine applications and I urge caution if you are considering it because you will be doing so with no manufacturer or vendor support when you have problems…..and you will.

If you do chose to use Markolon, insist on the following from your canvas shop:

1. Use only Makrolon AR-2
2. Sew the polycarbonate in with no more than 4 stitches per inch
3. Use a PTFE type thread
4. Use needles no larger than 20 ga.
5. Plan your application so that the Makrolon is as vertical as possible.
6. Get all warranties in writing. Any warranty you are offered will be by the canvas shop; the maker of Makrolon will not warranty it for use on boats.

 

[Sea Gull]

Oh wonderful. I installed 3 sections of Makrolon this spring. So far so good, but I will be a very unhappy camper if it fails in 2 years.

Any information on the cause of the failure? Based on vertical installation only and no recreational or off road vehicle use it sounds like flexing and vibration are the issues rather than UV exposure. Maybe 5 months of winter layup on the hard will help prolong life. Time will tell. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[LTD.330]

Wow. I guess the manufacturer wants to get out of the Marine business.

 

[spikedaddy99]

Thanks for the info Frank. I was planning on using Makrolon in the spring.
Mike

 

[Greg]

The coating is what scared me away from Makrolon. There is no way to repair it, if scratched.

I went with EZ2CY all the way around. So far I love it. If it gets scratched they say it can be buffed out.

 

[Turtlesboat]

I talked to a canvas guy about this stuff and he said he's had no problems with it in the northeast... so far. But has heard stories of southern boats that had what you described. Maybe it's a heat/UV thing?

 

[320Bob]

Thanks Frank,
I'm am now even happier I went with Strataglass instead of polycarbonate to save a little bit of money.

 

[fc3]

Frank doesn't like it. That's the kiss of death for that product in the marine market. Bye bye, Markolon.

I wouldn't use the stuff because the name sounds like something invented by Soviet scientists behind the Iron Curtain.

 

[mistercomputerman]

Good post, Cap. Thanks for the info and sorry you had to be the Research and Development Department for CSR members and Makrolon.

 

[KayKook]

Should have maybe chosen GE Lexan MR-10. with the UV-resistant Margard II surface coating rather than Makrolon. Both offer outstanding visibility (even at night), as well as impact and scratch resistance. With Makrolon, the canvas borders are sewed in place, slightly compromising the water resistance. With the MR-10, it can be thermo-bonded to the Sunbrella canvas, resulting in a watertight seam.

Lexan MR-10 sheet is mar- and graffiti-resistant. It combines the impact strength of LEXAN polycarbonate with a proprietary abrasion and UV-resistant MARGARD® II surface. It is warranted against yellowing, breakage, coating failure and loss of light transmission and offers improved resistance to weathering and forced entry protection.

I have not heard of failures with the MR-10 in such a short time , like has been reported with the Makrolon poly.

 

[Carver370]

I am having my whole aft deck done with polycarbonate as we speak (going with strataglass on the bridge so I can remove it a little easier and stow it).

There is a 460 Sundancer down the dock from me that had theirs replaced and its second to none, I have no heard of any failures in the 3 or 4 years I have seen it on boats up here. I will ask exactly what product my canvas guy uses to be sure.

 

[fwebster]

I will miss the optical purity of the polycarbonate sheet, but buying new panels every 2 years makes no sense when there are other products available that are almost as good and whose manufacturer will stand behind them. Besides, I'm known as a willing guinea pig who will try new things. The SR dealer, canvas guy, electronics guy, etc. all know I'll do my part and that I do take care of my boat. They don't want to lose a free R & D platform, so I'm not taking a full hit on this.

The vendor involved in my situation is international and sells isinglass, Strataglass, Makrolon, Lexan, and other clear plastics to marine OEM's and aftermarket suppliers everywhere in the world. His experience is that all of his volume users are experiencing some degredation of Makrolon in 2-3 years after the sale. The more vertical your panels are, the cleaner you keep them, the less sun exposure you have, the smaller the radii of any bends you have are, and the fewer and smaller the needle holes you punch in the sheet all add to longevity. If you have or are considering Makrolon, at least you know some history and background if you do develop problems in the future.


As far as Lexan is concerned, here is a quote from GE's warranty:

"This warranty applies only when LexanMR10 sheet is used in flat vertical architectural glazing, excluding specifically transportation, outdoor recreational, and off-road vehicle applications,............"

Damn, that looks familiar, doesn't it? I've already bought this experience once and I'm not interested in a repeat performance of being left out in the cold by another manufacturer. Besides, the thinnest Lexan sheet available is 1/8" which it too heavy to use for a removable panel. If I were interested in another "clear" product, I would use EZ2CY.........but that isn't workable for me. The only dealer anywhere nearby is 90 miles away and that is too far to effectively manage a canvas vendor.

 

[fc3]

Sounds like common restrictions with polycarbonate sheets.

 

[katricol]

Thanks for the post Frank as I will likely be replacing mine this winter !! Ric

 

[BOATSWAIN'S LOCKER]

Re: Heads-Up - Makrolon Problems

Club Sea Ray is a wonderful forum for folks to seek advice, collaborate, encourage, and warn their boating brothers and sisters. The opportunity to learn from others successes and failures is invaluable and saves us all time, money, and blood, sweat and tears!!

Frank's post has many merits and some good advice, and the replies have shed both good and bad light on the product…before MAKROLON get’s the ‘kiss of death’, lol, we wanted to weigh in on the subject and share our experiences.

Boatswain’s has been using MAKROLON AR-2, (AR-2 is coated on both sides, necessary for the marine application because of access to both sides), for at least 6 or 7 years, regularly, with very good success; long enough, we would think, to know if anything close to 50% of the applications were experiencing consistent failure every 2 – 3 years, and hopefully why!

Most failures of any product can be contributed to use or abuse; improper care and storage, or chemicals/cleaning actions. We have discussed the subject at length with suppliers who have as much as 25 years experience with MAKROLON and honestly they are not sure why some fail, one feels ‘crazing’ is usually chemically induced; we’ve talked about vibration; considered which panels are in question-their location; curve radius; etc., etc., there actually isn’t enough data to nail down a cause.

We have experienced very few panel failures over the years, less than a dozen out of 100’s of installations. We’ve used MAKROLON AR-2 for OEM canvas, Factory Replacement canvas, and in Custom designs; on many different boats: Sea Rays, Meridians, Boston Whalers; on power and sail boats; on vessels located in many different geographic locations where environmental factors could contribute; in installations with and without some tight curve radii. Again, the failure rate is very low and not consistent for a certain boat, application or geographic location. Also, we have not experienced the ‘yellowing’ described, just the crazing.

We have been purchasing MAKROLON AR-2 and manufacturing with it long enough to feel confident that an Enclosure should not be 3 times the cost of a STRATAGLASS enclosure. The price variance does not warrant that kind of increase, unless the distributor is really jacking up the price; not even with freight from California to Florida; and we’ve found there is a minimum of labor increase for a standard substitution; even with some serious ‘custom’ modifications, like sliding panels, or a Tenara/Gortex thread upgrade from our standard V-138, etc. there just isn’t justification for a 200% increase. Now, that kind of pricing could be the going rate for the industry in that area, etc., or there could be more complex and expensive custom modifications and additions, but that kind of increase just doesn’t seem fair to the shop, consumer, or for the product, in our opinion, and Boatswain’s has been in this business for 50 years.

Every product has its pros and cons; and no raw goods manufacturer covers labor, unfortunately, none of them; we take that into consideration and try to adjust the cost accordingly. We’ve been lucky, with the low rate of failure our supplier has replaced the product at their own cost, they would not be able to do that if the failure rate was higher. STRATAGLASS has its issues; so do EZ2CY and Lexan products, but it would be a shame if they were not an available choice for those consumers desiring a rigid alternative.

As with all things, do the homework; check out the materials, check out the shop, ask about their manufacturing techniques and compare prices. Then you can make an educated decision with confidence.

Let us know if we can be of service or if you have additional questions, we’ll do our best.

Happy Holidays and Merry Boating!!

 

[floriduramax1]

Watching!

 

[Overextended]

EZ2CY all the way...

 

[Carver370]

EZ2CY all the way...

My quote for EZ2CY was..... are you ready for this? 6,500.00 more than the Makrolon I had installed.

 

[fwebster]

I'm glad the folks at Boatswain's Locker is having good luck with Makrolon.

But, how do you address the issue that the manufacturer of the product will not even warranty it for recreational use or in sheeting as thin as we need for boat enclosures?

I bought this lesson once only to have 4 out of 5 panels fail within 3 years so I'm not going down that road again. Even thought us guys in Florida might be a little backwards, we do know how to clean and store Makrolon....but on the other hand, we are not going to park in the shade to protect the panels from the sun.....we use our boats and any product sold for this application should stand up to sun exposure.

There is a reason Sheffield doesn't warranty Makrolon.....perhaps they know that it will fail.

 

[billnpat]

Had Makrolon AR installed.....

installer:

You get a 5 year warranty with POLYWINDOW marine enclosures.