Has Sea Ray gone stupid ???

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Summer Fun II, Mar 6, 2015.

  1. Do Over

    Do Over Member

    981
    Aug 9, 2014
    Lake of the Ozarks
    2002 340DA
    8.1 Horizons
    All I know is I'm not sellin my boat....the house? sure....the boat?


    NEVER:smt018
     
  2. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    This may sound silly but I've always watched the cars parked along the streets and in parking lots. I've always thought it an indicator of 'how things are going'. Our little town has lost hundreds of better paying manufacturing jobs, it is shriveling up. Add stagnant wages and lost buying power and I'm seeing more aging vehicles, the fenders aren't flopping yet but there's been a definite change.
     
  3. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    This has been an interesting topic to read through. First of all I'd like to thank Sea Ray Corporate for popping in here and explaining some real world facts. Whether or not a person chooses to believe those facts is an individual decision. I do believe them and now have a better understanding of how the real world works.

    One thing that has not been mentioned directly in here is what is happening to our disposable personal income. If you can believe the gubmint (now THAT takes a real stretch of one's imagination!) the rich keep getting richer and the middle- and lower-income folks just keep falling further and further behind. I believe The Messiah refers to that upper echelon of income earners as the 1%.

    I also believe those 1%'ers are the ones buying the new boats. When your family income is a million bucks a year, and there's a heck of a lot out there that are much higher than that, you get to have the new toys. That's just the way the world works. For the rest of us, we get to buy their used toys that have been kept in good condition.

    IMHO there's nothing wrong with that picture.
     
  4. Monroe Boater

    Monroe Boater New Member

    115
    Jun 30, 2010
    Sarasota, FL
    1999 280 Sun Sport
    Twin 5.7 Mercs Alpha drives
    Thanks- We are definitely looking at the KW 219 and 239 along with the Sea Hunt 235 Ultra. Ideally, I would love to find a gently used Chris Craft 23 Catalina in the very affordable price range, as we will end up using the center console as a pleasure craft more than a fishing rig.

    SPFTJOHN:"Look at Key West. Great boat for the money and good build quality. We have a 219FS and it is a great boat. Yes the bay boats can get into stupid money. Look at the Yellowfin 25' about 100K"
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2015
  5. Billfletcher

    Billfletcher New Member

    913
    Feb 20, 2011
    San Diego, CA
    2014, 44, EC.
    2 X 370HP Volvo D6, DPH Duo Prop's
    We switched from a Sea Ray to a different boat for various personal reasons, but they had nothing to do with the quality or value of Sea Ray. They make fantastic boats, and just about every SR owner I meet at the docks, lioves their boat...whether thy bought it new, or used.

    I also find Sea Ray owners, are generally more boat savvy than the general boating public. there are folks on this board who have forgotten more than I know about boats.

    As far as the economics involved, boat prices, and the lack of young people on the docks, i think that is what it is. I was out of boating for over 20 years before I came back in about 5 years ago. work, kids, etc we didn't have the time or money to play in this game until later in life. My previous "boat" was a kayak and a surfboard. The wait made boat ownership even sweeter.
     
  6. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    97 270 Sundancer
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    8.2 Mercs,
    7.4 BII
    260hp Alpha 1
    BoatUS had a report in which the average age of a boater is now to 50 from the 40 of 10 years ago. Seems like in recent times the same folks are boating but little new blood.

    Agree for the most part, but 1%'ers are not even close to the "million bucks a year" range, more like $350k. There are around 350,000 1 million dollar tax returns a year, and it has been documented that the majority of those are one offs from selling businesses and the like, not annual events for the filers.

    MM
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2015
  7. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    97 270 Sundancer
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    8.2 Mercs,
    7.4 BII
    260hp Alpha 1
    What is STUPID is this thread. Anyone who thinks SR and other manufacturers are out to gouge them and jack up prices beyond where some on this board seem to feel is right need to take some economics refresher courses.

    If SR could build a 470DA for $75K and make a few bucks at it they would, they also would have a waiting list a mile long, opening new plants, and hiring like crazy. Their competition would be going mad to figure out how to do it too.

    Some folks need to watch fewer Oliver Stone movies... LOL

    MM
     
  8. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    For those who think that SR is gouging people and that SR quality has gone down the head, let me suggest that you watch a few minutes of this video on an Azimut yacht that this guy bought. He very carefully details in his video some of the problems he had with the boat. Now I don't know what the price is on a new 47' Azimut, but I can pretty much figure that's it's going to be well above what SR charges for the new L650.


    http://www.yachtforums.com/index.php?threads/a-yacht-owners-24-month-new-boat-experience-azimut.24258/

    This is not to point fingers at Azimut or Marine Max, but just to say that maybe some of you should take a step back and re-evaluate your thoughts on SR.

    Just Sayin........
     
  9. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    If SR had a secrete recipe to make a 47DA for 75K it would be priced right up near the competition and all the salesmen and execs would be high fivin', partying on Barbados drinking rum and bangin' hookers.:smt043
     
  10. 1990-270-da-lover

    1990-270-da-lover Member

    968
    Oct 10, 2012
    Clarks Hill Lake, GA
    1990 270 DA Sundancer / Saturn Dinghy 4hp Suzuki
    Towed with 2004 Chevy 2500 HD Sliverado 4x4
    7.4L Merc Bravo 1
    3 Blade Mirage Prop 14.5X17
    I am an ex business owner (by choice), but never, ever did a customer have an issue with my craftsmanship or quality, that I wouldn't take care of. Even if it cost me money, to make it right![/QUOTE]

    Spot on! This is the essence of customer service. I am a licensed residential remodeler in MD, and I treat my customers this way. I will service my work well past the required warranty period, even if it costs me money. In return, I have a large repeat clientele that has essentially kept me in business through these past few years where there is not that good of a market for renovations and up grades.
     
  11. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    97 270 Sundancer
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    8.2 Mercs,
    7.4 BII
    260hp Alpha 1
    Spot on! This is the essence of customer service. I am a licensed residential remodeler in MD, and I treat my customers this way. I will service my work well past the required warranty period, even if it costs me money. In return, I have a large repeat clientele that has essentially kept me in business through these past few years where there is not that good of a market for renovations and up grades.[/QUOTE]

    I feel most of the business owners on this site are of this thinking, BUT, we are lucky we did not run into that guy can never be satisfied. In the pre-internet era I had a cartoon of a lady at customer service, she was being asked if the company fired employees, and shot the manager would she then be satisfied.

    Let me know if you have this.

    MM
     
  12. KnotEasy

    KnotEasy Member

    248
    May 14, 2013
    Whitehall, Mi.
    205 Sport
    5.0L MPI
    That thread has showed up on a dozen boat sites, with the words "look how bad this guy had it with a new boat" one story, One experience does not hold much water with me.
     
  13. Tonka Boater

    Tonka Boater Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jun 11, 2008
    Wayzata, MN
    1997 232 BR
    502 MAG, Bravo I
    I don't think anyone is saying that Sea Ray is gouging people (well, maybe Wayne suggested it in the beginning). I think the debate at hand is whether or not buyers (especially new and younger) are being priced out of the market because of the current economics of the boating industry and whether or not the prices are a good value for what you get. Nobody said Sea Ray's are cheap but it is a fact that if prices go up in one area you need to cut in another to keep prices competitive. Sea Ray doesn't build a cheap quality boats but they're not up to the same standards of just 3 years ago...in my opinion.
     
  14. Henry Boyd

    Henry Boyd Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Apr 24, 2007
    Newburyport, on the peaceful and serene Merrimack
    02' 280 DA
    496 w BIII
    I don't have any complaints with the other statements that were made, I've heard the same arguments in the industry I work in and seen corroboration. I do find the sentence I highlighted a little disingenuous. It is my understanding (and please correct me if I am wrong) that Brunswick sells the bulk of their boats to their dealers. The dealers are independent businesses. Wouldn't Brunswick's profit be a result of the transaction between it and its dealers, and not with the final consumer? The profit on the final sale going to the dealer, and as an independent business that profit would not be consolidated on Brunswick's books. On that basis, to hold up corporate profitability as evidence the MSRP structure isn't out of whack is a little misleading.


    I think the elephant in the room no one wants to mention is the possibility that Sea Ray pricing is in part influenced by a marketing strategy to maintain the brand as an exclusive top shelf product. Woody makes a point that if SR sold large cruisers for a fraction of what they sell for now they would be swamped with orders. I'm not so sure. While there are plenty of folks who buy Sea Rays because they know they are well made boats, I'll be there are just as many who buy them because its more expensive. If that mentality was not present in our society there would be a heck of a lot fewer country clubs with $ 100 k buy ins, and $15k annual dues.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not slamming Brunswick lots of companies do it. Look at the VW Tourag and Porsche Cayenne, or a Chevy sedan and a Cadillac, vehicles made with common parts but very divergent MSRPs.

    Henry
     
  15. Big Island Lifer

    Big Island Lifer Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    Feb 1, 2010
    Minnesota
    '96 330 Formula SS
    For Sale '85 255 Amberjack
    Single 5.7
    In more of a philosophical approach it comes down to personal priorities. You can be a middle to upper middle class family and live in a small house and drive 15 year old cars and choose to spend all of your extra money on boating if you choose. Some members on this board have made that choice. I think those people are too far between. The majority of that bracket spend a lot of money on houses and cars and want to spend it on boats as long as the monthly payments are affordable. That's the scary truth. We are going to push the bubble again because interest rates are very low and people are going to take a loan out for everything they buy.
     
  16. 1990-270-da-lover

    1990-270-da-lover Member

    968
    Oct 10, 2012
    Clarks Hill Lake, GA
    1990 270 DA Sundancer / Saturn Dinghy 4hp Suzuki
    Towed with 2004 Chevy 2500 HD Sliverado 4x4
    7.4L Merc Bravo 1
    3 Blade Mirage Prop 14.5X17
    I feel most of the business owners on this site are of this thinking, BUT, we are lucky we did not run into that guy can never be satisfied. In the pre-internet era I had a cartoon of a lady at customer service, she was being asked if the company fired employees, and shot the manager would she then be satisfied.

    Let me know if you have this.

    MM[/QUOTE]

    MM I have seen this cartoon, but don't have it. But you are correct, there are those out there that will never be satisfied. I've had my share of them, and believe it or not, really don't work for them anymore. As a little addition to this thread discussion, cost versus value. I think that the value one places on a product is based quite heavily on the intended use of the product and how it performs for the users intent. The better the product performs, the more willing one may be to spend the manufacturers requested price for the product. One reason product reviews are highly scrutinized to see if the said product performs up to expectations. I think that this holds true throughout the range of products produced and sold to consumers. I do this sort of due diligence on any equipment I purchase for my business or for that matter my "older" boat. JMHO.
     
  17. Someday Lady II

    Someday Lady II Member

    300
    Aug 12, 2010
    RMYC, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    1991 350 Sundancer
    T-340 hp Bluewater 7.4 L
    Bravo II I/O's
    Everyone's opinion is important and has value. Even the guy without a boat and who is obviously working on building up his inventory of beer cans.
     
  18. Tonka Boater

    Tonka Boater Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jun 11, 2008
    Wayzata, MN
    1997 232 BR
    502 MAG, Bravo I
    This is a good point. I would be curious if your assumption can be confirmed about Brunswick's profit being based on sales to the dealers. If so, then I agree that the profit numbers are a bit disingenuous. This is similar to Samsung comparing their unit sales to Apple's unit sales. Samsung reports the number of orders to their resellers in the supply chain whereas Apple reports actual units sold to end consumers. Just because a product is delivered to the resellers doesn't not mean the units ever reach the end users and the profit is only based on the units sold to the resellers.

    I also agree that there is some truth to them keeping the prices elevated to maintain an image of exclusivity. Sea Ray Corporate made the comment about seeing a wakeboard boat retailing for $175K.... that is not even a valid comparison. Wakeboard boats and true ski boats are sold to a niche market. There are fewer buyers in this market and only a few manufacturers catering to these buyers and their high end needs so the prices will be higher on the top-of-the-line boats in this segment. Just because you can ski or wakeboard behind a Sea Ray does not mean that a professional or big time enthusiast would by a Sea Ray for this reason.
     
  19. KnotEasy

    KnotEasy Member

    248
    May 14, 2013
    Whitehall, Mi.
    205 Sport
    5.0L MPI
    "Brunswick Corp. reported a 7 percent increase in fourth-quarter revenue, with sales growth driven by improvements in outboard boat sales and engines and marine parts and accessories, but offset in part by continued declines in sterndrive sales."

    The Mercury marine engine segment is what is keeping Brunswick (marine division) going right now.
     
  20. Bridog

    Bridog Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Gulf Shores AL / Brick NJ
    2016 19SPX OB
    Mercury 150 4S OB
    His inventory is now complete. He's just been too busy enjoying the break in the weather.
     

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