Has Sea Ray gone stupid ???

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Summer Fun II, Mar 6, 2015.

  1. miss read the post.. sorry
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2015
  2. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    That must be the cost of the completed deal....how much was the boat?
     
  3. Tonka Boater

    Tonka Boater Active Member

    Jun 11, 2008
    Wayzata, MN
    1997 232 BR
    502 MAG, Bravo I
    For some it's not an issue of affordability...it's an issue of sanity. I agree, prices today are crazy and it's hard to look at these prices and think you're getting a good value for the money. I know that boats are not an investment but there is no way to do the math on a new boat and have it make any sense whatsoever.

    The economy and boat market were much better in 2002. In 2008 the boat market was tanking and I bought my brand new 2008 240SD fully loaded with a 350 MAG and all the goodies for exactly $50k. At the time I felt that was a good value... I got a lot of boat for good price and our family used it a ton.

    In 2009 we traded for a new 2008 280DA and paid $100k. The dealer gave me $50K for my 240SD and again, I felt it was a good value... a lot more boat, a lot more uses for us and it was cheaper than buying a lake home. We sold the 280DA in the 2012 season for $85k. That, to me, was a fair price and losing only $15k for 4 seasons of use didn't bother me bit.

    Today... there is no way that I can look at new boat prices from ANY manufacturer and feel like the price is a good value. I just purchased a 1997 23' boat that is loaded and in showroom condition that I paid under $15k. That is a good value to me.
     
  4. Do Over

    Do Over Member

    981
    Aug 9, 2014
    Lake of the Ozarks
    2002 340DA
    8.1 Horizons

    Thats not the price of the final financed deal....it's the price on the boat invoice ( including options)....the guy financed $190,000.
     
  5. sibnai1

    sibnai1 Member

    287
    Jul 18, 2014
    NJ, USA
    195 Bow Rider 5 Series
    4.3litre V6 I/O Alpha I Gen II
    My muddled thoughts:

    1) Everything is relative
    2) Everyone loves to feel like they got a GREAT deal in their favor.
    3) One man's value is another man's excess.
    4) Manufacturers will price their wares based on what the market will bear.
    5) With new technologies comes expensive capital/equipment upgrades.
    6) Some guy in Boston is selling and shipping snow across the country.
    7) A fool and his money are soon parted.
    8) Some manufacturers will reinvest and save during the boom years for a rainy day.

    I love car services that tell you what others paid for the car you are contemplating purchasing so that you know if you got a good deal. It is such strange a concept to me, it reminds me of the old adage: if everyone jumps off of a bridge ..............
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2015
  6. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    There's a big part of me who thinks that anyone who buys just about anything new is nuts.

    I have a pretty good understanding of how depreciation eats away at the value of things, and toys are among the worst when it comes to losing their value.

    I went to a Sportsman Show here in Phoenix a week ago and was amazed to see how many 22'-26' boats ranging in price from $75K to well over $100K.

    So, if a person buys a new $75K boat today and takes good care of it and does all the maintenance, it will be worth somewhere around $40K in 5 years. That's a pretty big hit.
     
  7. JV II

    JV II Active Member

    Nov 17, 2007
    Newport, RI
    2016 50 Fly
    Volvo Penta D11
    I guess economy of scale went out the window with the economy. How many do you think they sell a year? If they sold 4x as many, the price would be a lot less.

    You'd think the price of entry for a new boat would drive prices of used boats up.
     
  8. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    There's a lot of ways to look things. Boats kind of fall in the category of fun and entertainment. You could spend the 75K on Caribbean cruises and have nothing to show for it....even the suntan is gone.
     
  9. Boat Guy

    Boat Guy Well-Known Member

    That's true, though we are the sum of our experiences.

    Certainly the price of these boats concern me from the value proposition. Yet, my biggest question is how they are being purchased. If the financial fundamentals are solid and the people purchasing can afford them with cash then great. But, I'm just getting the feeling this is a house of cards and a little deja vous.
     
  10. AMFM3

    AMFM3 Active Member

    Mar 11, 2012
    Okanagan Lake, British Columbia
    370 Sundancer 1995 Raymarine C 120 Plotter / Radar
    Dinghy with 9.9 hp Merc
    454's
    7.4 L Twin inboards, v drives
    As long as there are people willing to,pay the price of something new, then that's not overpriced. It's the basis of most things. A fair price is what a willing buyer will pay to a willing seller. So...I'm not willing to pay the price, therefore it's not for me.

    I paid aid what I considered a fair price for my previously loved Sea Ray...I'm happy.

    Mark
     
  11. Chris Nowell

    Chris Nowell Active Member

    Nov 28, 2011
    Lake Okanagan, Kelowna B.C.
    '05 622 Hardtop w Alaska Bulkhead, 270 Mercury Marine sport inflatable, pulled by a 6.0L Silverado
    4.3 MPI Merc w Alpha I drive, 5 hp 4 stroke Merc aux.
    Hi Wayne. Karen and I just went through this and although I hate to bring up the issue again, I must say that there definitely IS a HUGE difference between the two. You gotta dig, and look in all the nooks and crannies on the new ones, and compare similar sized boats of similar years that have had similar treatment when you're looking at the pre owned ones. In the end, even though the parent company is the same, Sea Rays are quality builds in general. We are still looking for a "hard top' or "pilot house" type of boat in the 22 to 24 foot range and there just aren't any around here. In a moment of weakness, and panic, and frustration, I actually managed to convince myself to consider the 24' Baythingy. I was convinced once and for all that I would not be happy with one, regardless of how new or old it was. By keeping the price down they are providing a way for people who may not normally be able to budget for a boat, an opportunity to get on the water. Sorry I got a bit off the thread topic there.

    I think a lot of folks who buy new boats in the 19 to 23' range are more interested in how much per month the boat will cost as opposed to how MUCH the boat will cost. We know a few couples who went to look at boats "just to see" and ended up coming home with the classic 19 to 23 foot Baythingy not because the price was right, but because the PAYMENTS were right. None of them were remotely concerned with depreciation, maintenance costs, durability, finish, alpha vs bravo, projected trade in value etc. Their mode of thinking was more like "for x number of dollars per month OUR family can be out there on the water too". God bless 'em man, that's what it's all about. And then there are the folks who are more critical, anal, particular, analytical, or whatever you want to call it, who would rather pay more for Sea Ray, Formula, Cobalt etc. I'm not making excuses here for the manufacturers trying to rape us. Just sayin' that the prices are the prices 'cause there's someone out there who is willing to PAY the prices or MAKE the payments. Oh-oh, I'm rambling again :smt021
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
  12. IanBat

    IanBat New Member

    Nov 19, 2011
    Sydney, Australia
    Pro Tournament 36' 1999
    Twin Cummins 5.9L 370hp B Series
    I couldn't even look second hand here under $100k for my next one


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  13. KC_Sundancer

    KC_Sundancer New Member

    Sep 8, 2009
    Munising, Michigan (Lake Superior) Pictured Rocks
    1985 270DA Sundancer,Simrad 4G Radar,Lowrance Gen2 GPS/Sonar/Structure Scan,F350 7.3l Diesel, tri-ax
    twin Mercruiser 185R's (v6's) w/SE106 drives, "High Five" stainless props, Mercury 280 RIB w/9.9 Mer
    I don't think that will work so well, I'm sure there is a program from the current administration that would then get you one for free. :lol:

    I am with most of you and the viewpoints. With the crazy new numbers you could buy 10 years old, throw new engines in and still be way ahead of the game.
    For me the restoration process is enjoyable too, as long as it can be used during the process.
    It's all relative though, look at new trucks 65K for the equivalent of my 1999 F350 that I bought for 31K.
    Like Chris said, it's easier to finance new and I think many look only at the monthly payment.

    We'll be sticking with the monthly payment being fuel - :grin:
     
  14. ajcjr

    ajcjr New Member

    28
    Mar 1, 2015
    Long Island, NY
    15' 310 Sundancer
    Twin 350 Bravo III
    So im in the market for a boat right now, looking at the 2015 sea ray 280 sundancer, i was at the LI Boat show as well. The price i was given was no where near the signs they had on the boats. It was discounted very nice. So im like do i buy a used boat for 20k less or get something new? I think unless you are going wayyyyy used it makes sense. I said i would never buy a new boat but after looking at what is out there and the delta its not a bad deal. Plus the low interest rates also help. Any opinions?
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
  15. estoltz

    estoltz Member

    356
    Jan 7, 2015
    Northern Virginia, USA
    2006 340 Sundancer with Generator (FOR SALE)
    2005 260DA with Kohler Generator (SOLD)
    Dual Mercruiser 8.1 Horizons
    350 Mag MPI with BIII (free with the purchase of 2005 260DA)
    That's another thing to consider. There are new boat interest rates and used boat interest rates. Plus you also get that piece of mind that it's under a warranty. For some the benefit of not having unexpected expenses in repairs is a comfort. We are considering buying the extended warranty on our purchase for just such comfort but then we are also not buying a brand new boat because I know what depreciation is and I know when I want to exit my ownership of this boat.
     
  16. ajcjr

    ajcjr New Member

    28
    Mar 1, 2015
    Long Island, NY
    15' 310 Sundancer
    Twin 350 Bravo III
    So i found a 2013 280 w 20 hours asking 120,000 so figure they would take 90 to 100k if some one offered it to them, the new boat i am looking at was cheaper than there asking price. But if i look at boats w 200plus hours i can get way cheaper but what am i buying? Is the new technology and peace of mind worth the money?

    a boat is not an investment so i am not looking at when im selling and for what but the fact i keep hearing dont buy new just sticks in my head.
     
  17. bigblockcutlass

    bigblockcutlass Member

    810
    May 9, 2010
    Michigan
    1998 Carver 370 Voyager
    1990 270 sea ray sundancer twin 4.3L
    1987 Power Play 230 Conquest
    1987 Fo
    454
    This is true
     
  18. estoltz

    estoltz Member

    356
    Jan 7, 2015
    Northern Virginia, USA
    2006 340 Sundancer with Generator (FOR SALE)
    2005 260DA with Kohler Generator (SOLD)
    Dual Mercruiser 8.1 Horizons
    350 Mag MPI with BIII (free with the purchase of 2005 260DA)
    You know if I listened to what other people said all the time I would never go near a boat. My favorite is "it's a whole in the middle of water that you throw money into" It completely discounts the value of the enjoyment you get in owning and operating a boat. I imagine that saying was created by the guys that bought a boat used it one season and then let it rot in the water at the slip.
     
  19. Tonka Boater

    Tonka Boater Active Member

    Jun 11, 2008
    Wayzata, MN
    1997 232 BR
    502 MAG, Bravo I
    I can't imagine someone who's asking $120k would be wiling to take 25% off the asking price. Unless it's grossly overpriced to begin with you are not likely to get a 25% discount on a used boat with 20 hours.

    Sea Ray and Marine Max are notorious for having extremely high sticker prices so the "discounts" are not really discounts. Even the discounted prices they show are still are grossly inflated.

    I don't agree with the notion that something is worth what another is willing to pay. That doesn't really establish the true market value if you can find a few people who are less sophisticated and overpay.

    I'm not saying you are crazy for considering a new boat but there a lot of used boats that are a great value though.

    I know rates vary from region to region but at some of the credit unions up here you can get 2.99% for any vehicle -- new or used. For used boats they just look up the Blue Book value to determine the value.

    This is what's dangerous for people buying used new boats based strictly on the affordability of monthly payments. Most people who purchase boats with this mindset get loans for 10+ years but they only keep the boat for 3-4 years and when they sell they are completely upside down. A loan for $55k for 3 years at 4% interest is over $1600/mo...that is not affordable for most people which is why so many people lease their cars of the equivalent price. Take that same $55k loan for 10 years and now you're down to $550/mo...more affordable but after 4 when they sell it won't be worth what they still owe. I don't care what anyone says going into it... very few people keep their boats for a long time, let alone the term of most boat loans. People here on CSR probably keep their boats a long time but we're enthusiasts...most people who buy boats are not enthusiasts.
     
  20. Billfletcher

    Billfletcher New Member

    913
    Feb 20, 2011
    San Diego, CA
    2014, 44, EC.
    2 X 370HP Volvo D6, DPH Duo Prop's

    Just briefly scanned this thread. The above statement is dead on...you can't put a price on boating. We do it because we love it.

    We bought a new boat because I didn't want to inherit someone else's problems. We could afford it, payed cash, and all good. Ordering the boat from the factory, and then watching it travel through the Panama Canal on a ship are memories we will always treasure.Regarding new or used; as with anything in life we all weigh the pros and cons..its a personal decision.
     

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