Guns on your boat

[LTD.330]

Granted its up to the prosecutor and jury and maybe there's more to the story but to draw your firearm based on the information you provided IN MY OPINION doesn't constitute eminent threat of death or bodily injury and yes I know you didn't draw it but to consider it a valid point to do is a cause for concern.

He was considering his options, and chose not to draw his gun. Clearly he didn't think the situation constituted eminent threat of death or bodily injury.

Let me ask, lets say angry drunk guy starts pounding on your face, do you just let him beat you into unconsciousness and hope he stops and doesn't kill you, or do you draw your gun? If you do draw your gun, at what point do you draw it?

 

[estoltz]

He was considering his options, and chose not to draw his gun. Clearly he didn't think the situation constituted eminent threat of death or bodily injury.

Let me ask, lets say angry drunk guy starts pounding on your face, do you just let him beat you into unconsciousness and hope he stops and doesn't kill you, or do you draw your gun? If you do draw your gun, at what point do you draw it?

It depends. How big is the angry drunk guy? How big am I in the scenario? If its reasonable to believe he would beat me into unconsciousness then I would draw my weapon. Virginia's laws are some of the more complex ones in that there isn't a black or white line in the judicial code but instead a requirement to use reasonable force in return based on the force used against you. This can lead to interesting scenarios where I a 6'6" 340lb male being punched by a male assailant at 6'1" 220lbs cannot justify deadly force but if the sizes were swapped the smaller victim could easily justify the use. My comment was not an attack on dwna1a but instead a criticism of the commonwealth's laws and their structure.

 

[scoflaw]

He was considering his options, and chose not to draw his gun. Clearly he didn't think the situation constituted eminent threat of death or bodily injury.

Let me ask, lets say angry drunk guy starts pounding on your face, do you just let him beat you into unconsciousness and hope he stops and doesn't kill you, or do you draw your gun? If you do draw your gun, at what point do you draw it?

Your going to have to be beaten to the point that your lawyer can convince a jury of 12 to dismiss the manslaughter charge, cause it was your life or his

If your going to shoot, make sure he's dead, cause you don't want him testifying, calling you a liar.

You best have deep pockets as well, even if acquitted, you could still face a civil lawsuit from the family

 

[JVM225]

Never draw a gun unless you are ready to take a life.
Here is the long and short of it: If you shoot someone, you better be able to articulate how you were afraid that the person you shoot was about to (immediately) take your life, or that of another innocent person.

 

[Boater420]

Never draw a gun unless you are ready to take a life.
Here is the long and short of it: If you shoot someone, you better be able to articulate how you were afraid that the person you shoot was about to (immediately) take your life, or that of another innocent person.

Were/are you in the USCG? I've heard my son say those same words many times...Articulate how you were afraid that the person... I wasn't going to answer it when it was asked earlier by LTD.330 about when to fire the weapon once drawn, but i agree 100% with your statement...Never draw a weapon unless you are ready to take a life.

 

[Meathead]

With that attitude, many of us are glad you live there as well.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger. Oops forgot who I was talking to.

 

[JV II]

I'm not paranoid enough to carry all the time, but when I do the weapon sure as hell isn't unloaded. Not sure how you come up with the denigrate someone comment.

For my and my family's sake, if you have a LTC-A unrestricted, please carry all the time. If I can't be there and you are the CCW in the McDonalds when a nut job decides to take out whatever race they don't like that day, I'm hoping you're carrying that day.

 

[2000SR380]

So what you're saying is that:

1. You had two guys on a boat.
2. One with special forces training.
3. Both with weapons.
4. Both hesitated or were afraid to use said weapons.
5. Nobody was shot.

Please explain... if NONE of the weapons were used why they were necessary? Why did someone with Special Forces training hesitate to pull the trigger on either of his weapons?

OK, so :
1-2-and 3) Nuclear deterrent. If only the robber had been armed what then?
4) As has been pretty well expressed in this thread. If you use any sort of deadly force, or even a non-lethal Taser, on someone you better be able to articulate why. ESPECIALLY if you are a highly trained soldier.
5) Nobody was shot because the good guy was able to achieve the upper hand (once he was fully awake), and the Police response was pretty damn good.
A Subsequent search of the suspects home turned up lots of stolen items. Many of which were reported as taken during strong arm robberies, and home invasions. A well known local gang was involved. Guess how many people had the stones to show up and testify for the trial?
I am not suggesting everyone needs to carry a gun. I am suggesting we all can not afford to be sheep.
I am more the Sheep-Dog personality, I cannot sit by if someone else is in trouble and I loath being helpless when confronted by idiots.

 

[JimG]

"Guns on your boat"? Yes, always. CCW permit? Yes.

Some other thoughts:
*I don't carry because I'm scared
*My carry will be loaded and chambered w/self defense rounds
*I won't pull it unless my life or my family (include close friends) is in danger
*Crap happens in McDonald's (or anywhere else), I'll be your huckle berry!
*I will never be the sheep
*I have not, nor ever had the notion to draw on anybody (hope I never)

Carry on... :smt024

 

[dwna1a]

Never draw a gun unless you are ready to take a life.
Here is the long and short of it: If you shoot someone, you better be able to articulate how you were afraid that the person you shoot was about to (immediately) take your life, or that of another innocent person.

Thank you!

 

[dwna1a]

While I don't agree with how big I will answer. I'm 5'11" 200lbs. He 5 or 6' 275 to 300lbs, very drunk! Fists in my face screaming cussing. Threatening bodily harm. I never got out of my chair knowing that would make things go over the line.

you wanna know why? There was six others there that I knew that would step in, two that advised him to go. He never knew. He was drunk, mad and had a very bad day. The funniest part of that day? I wasn't even in the group that fussed at him!

IF you are going to carry, whether on your boat or in your car, keep your wits about you. If you feel threatened THINK first. TRAIN every month and not just in a range on paper targets. Paper doesn't shot back. Find a simulator, that's a whole new world. In a simulation no one gets shot and it teaches how testosterone effects ones judgment and accuracy. You could be the absolute best, level headed person in the world and you will make mistakes and have poor judgement. But those mistakes won't put you in a jail or on trial. I'm in a simulator once a month, it saves me real ammo and teaches many things like tolerance.

Get the permits, train as often as you can. Go to any refresher you can find.

Im not saying I was right and some of you are very right.

 

[Black Valkyrie]

Wow, what a lot of testosterone.
I'm glad I live in a land down under where the only thing that you can't take from my cold dead hands is a beer.
It must be quite nerve racking to live in a society where your constantly under threat of being shot at.
But I have a solution......more guns. Have a nice day

How very naive of you. I'm in Canada, not much different than Australia and at least I appreciate that I need to be able to fend for myself. I'm not constantly under threat by any means, and neither are my American neighbors. We are simply prepared. When the bad guys come knocking, I will have more to protect my family than a cold beer. That will be consumed afterwards.

 

[Meathead]

All I'm saying is we live in a different world. It is completely foreign to us to even own a weapon let alone carry one.
From an outsider looking in it would appear that the spirit in which the second amendment was written has been lost somewhat.
We were lucky. After our mass shooting in Port Arthur in 1996 (35 killed 23 wounded) the govt organised a gun buy back scheme and an amnesty for illegal weapons.
Thankfully we haven't had a mass shooting since, whereas in the US it seems to be a daily occurrence.

 

[k9medic]

All I'm saying is we live in a different world. It is completely foreign to us to even own a weapon let alone carry one.
From an outsider looking in it would appear that the spirit in which the second amendment was written has been lost somewhat.
We were lucky. After our mass shooting in Port Arthur in 1996 (35 killed 23 wounded) the govt organised a gun buy back scheme and an amnesty for illegal weapons.
Thankfully we haven't had a mass shooting since, whereas in the US it seems to be a daily occurrence.

I agree it is a different world which is why it is difficult for an outsider to understand what the US constitution means to a US citizen. This discussion can also break down into sub-discussions on immigration and the acceptance of those who want to enjoy the liberties that living in the US affords but do not want to acculturate.

The issue that we have is not from firearms but from firearms being used illegally by criminals. Gun laws only effect the legal user. The illegal user (criminal) does not care about the law.

People will hurt people no matter what their choice of weapon. Ask an Israeli or Palestinian about crime. They have strict gun laws in Israel and yet people are killed every day with rocks. To further that, you have to be pretty ticked off to throw a rock at a tank...

Given the animals that live in Australia that can kill you, even if you had guns, I think you would be more likely to be killed by an animal first!:grin:

 

[Black Valkyrie]

All I'm saying is we live in a different world. It is completely foreign to us to even own a weapon let alone carry one.
From an outsider looking in it would appear that the spirit in which the second amendment was written has been lost somewhat.
We were lucky. After our mass shooting in Port Arthur in 1996 (35 killed 23 wounded) the govt organised a gun buy back scheme and an amnesty for illegal weapons.
Thankfully we haven't had a mass shooting since, whereas in the US it seems to be a daily occurrence.

Right - how did that gun ban work for those poor people stuck in that Lindt chocolate store?

You didn't read what I said.- I'm in Canada, not the USA.

BTW gun ownership in Australia is in fact quite high, and continues to rise. Your statement that gun ownership is a forgiven concept to Australians is false. You may want to check out the stats....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

 

[Meathead]

Right - how did that gun ban work for those poor people stuck in that Lindt chocolate store?

The Police handled the situation and unfortunately 3 people died including the terrorist. If the customers had have been armed there are no guarantees of a different result, in fact it could have been worse.

You didn't read what I said.- I'm in Canada, not the USA.

No, I read it.

BTW gun ownership in Australia is in fact quite high, and continues to rise. Your statement that gun ownership is a forgiven concept to Australians is false. You may want to check out the stats....

Number of guns per 100 people in US = 112
Australia = 26

 

[Woody]

Meathead, maybe this will help. Why would we have so many guns? I live in WI, like many other states hunting is popular. Last fall just for the regular 9 day long deer gun season there were 620,000 licenses sold. Part of our state is shotgun and part is rifle, some guys may hunt one area one year and in the other the next time....two different type guns. Lots of different game to hunt and a lot of people that like to do it, lots of shooting sports, common is trap and skeet for example. Sure a lot of guns can do duel duty but some are more suited for specific game than others. My state allows some handgun hunting also. Some people have guns solely for the purpose of self defense....and some of them carry them. If you're into a combination of these things it's easy to accumulate a quite a few guns....I've got dozens of them and don't think I have too many. When you see that 112 guns per 100 stat don't think they're all being carried around by folks waiting for a shootout because it isn't the case.

The US gets the bad press for all the guns but you never see an explanation of what they are actually used for.

 

[dwna1a]

To add to Woody

My dad passed in September. He had 72 different long guns with another 16 handguns.

So so do you see how those numbers can be way off?

 

[Meathead]

To add to Woody

My dad passed in September. He had 72 different long guns with another 16 handguns.

So so do you see how those numbers can be way off?

Absolutely, but whose to say that our numbers aren't skewed similarly, we have a lot of farmers and a vibrant sporting shooter community.

My point is that it would be unthinkable for an Australian to carry a weapon on their boat.

All that means is that our cultures while similar in some respects are very different when it comes to firearms.

 

[Black Valkyrie]

Right - how did that gun ban work for those poor people stuck in that Lindt chocolate store?

The Police handled the situation and unfortunately 3 people died including the terrorist. If the customers had have been armed there are no guarantees of a different result, in fact it could have been worse.

You didn't read what I said.- I'm in Canada, not the USA.

No, I read it.

BTW gun ownership in Australia is in fact quite high, and continues to rise. Your statement that gun ownership is a forgiven concept to Australians is false. You may want to check out the stats....

Number of guns per 100 people in US = 112
Australia = 26

You're still ignoring what I am.saying... first off the link I provided you shows that out of 175 countries surveyed, Australia ranks #26 in the world for gun ownership per capita, and your numbers are rising. (Though the USA is #1 on the list, Canada is #12 which makes us cooler than Australia ) Further, based on the fact that gun ownership numbers in Australia are rising annually and so many Australians own firearms, I also.dispute your claim that Australians would find it inconceivable to carry one on their boat. I dispute that. I would bet you dollars to Kangaroos that savvy Australians who are smart enough to carry firearms for protection in the outback are also wise enough to do so when at sea. I would suggest to you that you actually may be a minority in your opinion in your own country on this matter.

FYI I have relatives in Australia and they are all armed.