Guns and Boats

jpk33 said:
GFC & LTD seem to have this thread locked down! (I appreciate your professional opinions). But there are a couple of things that need to be restated:
1)NEVER use a flare gun as a weapon! You might be really surprised when the flare bounces off its intended target and quite possibly starts your boat on fire!
2)NEVER display a firearm to intimidate a threat. When you are at the point of displaying a firearm you should be at the point to pull the trigger to stop the threat (because your are in fear of grave bodily injury or death).
3)Do not think that racking a slide or pump will stop the threat. You just gave up 2 seconds to the perpetrator to do you or a loved one harm.
4)Keep your booger hook off the bang switch until the muzzle is on target and you are ready to DESTROY it.
YMMV, our boat = our house and is protected accordingly!
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this is why i always check back on my threads. VERY SOUND INFORMATION thanks for that input
 
Gofirstclass said:
Fire, IMHO a lot of the "correctness" to your answers would depend on a number of factors which include:
1..the size of your boat. If your boat has sleeping and toilet facilities it becomes your "home" while you are aboard and as such, tends to offer you more legal right to use force to defend yourself.
2..what other avenues did you take? Did you try to escape by outrunning, call for help, warn the intruders off, etc.
3..disparity of force. If you and your admiral are alone on your boat and several guys are trying to board, you have more rights due to the disparity of force than if it was just one guy trying to board. Also, if the guy(s) trying to board are armed with any kind of weapon (knife, baton, oar, board, club, etc.) you have the right to use more force.

?1 what would you do. In the situation you described I would have tried to outrun them. If I couldn't do that, I would try to evade them, all the while calling for help on the VHF and/or cell phone.


?2 what is the law? This varies from state to state.

?3 what about interstate travel and guns. Again, this varies from state to state. Many states recognize the concealed weapons permit (CWP) from another state and will allow you to carry. Several east coast states and a few others do not. Canada and Mexico do not allow importation of handguns. (Canada does under some very, very limited circumstances. I've done it so I know it can happen). Canada will allow long guns for hunting or target shooting, but I think permits are needed in advance.

?4 have any of you ever had this type of problem. I've never had a problem with having a gun on board but my boat is my home when I'm aboard.

One thing to keep in mind. If you keep a gun on board and find yourself in a situation where you felt it was the only thing you could do to protect yourself or someone else on board, and you can articulate your fears very clearly, then any action you took with a firearm would likely be ruled as justifiable. When you travel with a gun, whether it's in your boat or your car, keep it hidden. Don't advertise that you have a gun by leaving a holster or ammo visible in the boat or car.

?5 what type of protection is best. This is going to open a real can of worms, but I feel a .38 special revolver is about all you need. It's manageable, they're reliable, they almost never malfunction, and the guy on the receiving end will know you mean business.

Others will say you need a 12 gauge shotgun or .45 auto or some other major weapon. I keep a stainless steel S&W Model 60 on board when we're there because of those reasons and that I want something my wife can comfortably shoot if I'm disabled or dead.

To answer this question: "Are we properly prepared to defend out family and our property?", the answer to that has to include not only the "I have a gun" answer, but also the "I'm mentally prepared to take a life to protect my life or the life of someone else on my boat." Anyone can own a gun. Not everyone is capable of taking a life and dealing with the Post Shooting Trauma that will follow.
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Very well done.
 
OldSkool said:
I like the easy pull trigger also but the sights are pretty useless when using buck shot at 15-20 feet. Anything farther than that may not be seen as a threat by law enforcement. (Thats the enforcements stand in my county.)


I use buck shot as opposed to a slug. A couple BB's entering your body can have the same effect as a slug as a deterrent. The wide pattern makes up for a lot of hurried defensive movements at close range.
For long range threats up to 5 miles then I have something with a little more impact and better sighting....
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A question for the shotgun guys...have you patterned the actual gun and load that you are relying on? You could be surprised by how small a spread you actually have, it can vary a lot. You have to shoot some paper so you know what you got.
 
I always have a firearm within reach. What type of firearm depends where you are boating. I was told even flare guns are not allowed in NY but you are required to have one on Lake Erie? Just love some of these laws. If you can't carry a firearm.....Wasp spray works better than pepper spray and that's also banned in some areas. Wasp spray is nasty stuff and shoots up to 20ft accurately. It will send a perp to the hospital. A Glock 27 or 21 works great for me. A 12G 870 or 500 is nice but too big for my wife to use. A rifle in dangerous waters would be needed in .308 or larger....223 holes just won't sink a boat! Just ask the Navy, Mike.
 
If I were going to have a shotgun on board, it definitely would be this model Remington:

69489.jpg


Manufacturer: Remington 81191
Item: 69489

Specifications and features:
Remington 870 Express pump-action shotgun
12 gauge
18-1/2" barrel
3" chamber
7 round capacity
Black synthetic pistol grip only stock
38-1/2" overall length
Includes extended ported Tactical Rem choke

My favorite online gun store (Cheaperthandirt.com) has it in stock for $341.

BTW, if you have never fired a shotgun with a pistol grip, you might want to practice A LOT with whatever pistol grip shotgun you buy. Shooting one is a lot different from shooting a shoulder fired shotgun. Your point of aim will be considerably different with the pistol grip and it is not as instinctive so it's a learned skill.
 
This discussion has come up before.

I do have conceal permit, but for the boat and home I have a Taurus Judge. Very versital in the way you can load different rounds. It is not a concealed weapon but one designed to stop many scenarios.


The Judge Taurus Pistol .45colt/ 410 shot


7 min - Jan 17, 2010 - Uploaded by soonercarports
NOTE: This gun was not made to be easily concealable. This gun was made for IN VEHICLE USE. This is the gun you want to have in your ...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=q05Pv2bdDdE - Related videos
 
If YOU'VE GOT A 18 1/2 BARREL,on a 870 loaded with #8 buck shot you can hit a man size target at 25 ft. with your eyes closed, you'll have plenty of spread.... stop a engine? use the S/W blue shell with the chrome cap. it has a magnesium slug,that will bust a engine wide open. The Del. State police would use them to stop a car that wouldn't stop, just pull up beside the car and blow the front wheel" CLEAN OFF" That was back in the 70 s Today it isn't P.C. to day you would have to send tk. and hope that they felt like ans. it .... Rip
 
riptide said:
If YOU'VE GOT A 18 1/2 BARREL,on a 870 loaded with #8 buck shot you can hit a man size target at 25 ft. with your eyes closed, you'll have plenty of spread.... stop a engine? use the S/W blue shell with the chrome cap. it has a magnesium slug,that will bust a engine wide open. The Del. State police would use them to stop a car that wouldn't stop, just pull up beside the car and blow the front wheel" CLEAN OFF" That was back in the 70 s Today it isn't P.C. to day you would have to send tk. and hope that they felt like ans. it .... Rip
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OldSkool said:
+1 :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Exactly what I was talking about.
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Not trying to get in a gun argument here but...shoot them things at some paper and then think about what you see. What is your goal when you pull that trigger on someone? To just "hit him" isn't the point. The typical spread at the distances mentioned here (15-25') is not so large that it eliminates aiming. You may find you're combination of gun and ammo makes a single hole at those distances, it would be easy to effectively miss. I am not inventing this stuff as I type, the best prep for home defense and shooting at someone is to shoot a lot of paper first.
 
It's funny, I was just reading through all the responses and had to laugh. After 26 years in the Military, Guns to me are just a pain in the #$%! After you shoot them the have to be Cleaned, when you don't use them they Rust. When you lose one your up s#$%'S Creek, Not to mention the responcebility of owning one. Where I live it's not needed and I'll do with out!!:smt038
 
Bugsy24 said:
It's funny, I was just reading through all the responses and had to laugh. After 26 years in the Military, Guns to me are just a pain in the #$%! After you shoot them the have to be Cleaned, when you don't use them they Rust. When you lose one your up s#$%'S Creek, Not to mention the responcebility of owning one. Where I live it's not needed and I'll do with out!!:smt038
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I actually am thinking of selling a lot of my guy stuff including guns. I don't have the interest in them like I used to, my kids & grandkids don't have any interest either so I think most will go.
 
Woody said:
Not trying to get in a gun argument here but...shoot them things at some paper and then think about what you see. What is your goal when you pull that trigger on someone? To just "hit him" isn't the point. The typical spread at the distances mentioned here (15-25') is not so large that it eliminates aiming. You may find you're combination of gun and ammo makes a single hole at those distances, it would be easy to effectively miss. I am not inventing this stuff as I type, the best prep for home defense and shooting at someone is to shoot a lot of paper first.
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Woody,
I don't disagree with you. I've shot more squirrel, rabbit and birds than a care to count. Growing up on a farm lends itself to knowing firearms. Maybe I just take it for granted that when I pick up a scatter gun and shoot I can get within the kill zone of an animal. I got pretty good at shooting pheasants with a .30-06 rifle. (not in flight, anyone shooting rifle into open air space is an idiot):smt001


My first use of a double barrel yielded an impact of my A$$ on the ground and a sore shoulder for a week. Only pull one trigger at a time would have been great advice if the old man would have said it before I shot instead of after. :smt013
 
OldSkool said:
Woody,
My first use of a double barrel yielded an impact of my A$$ on the ground and a sore shoulder for a week. Only pull one trigger at a time would have been great advice if the old man would have said it before I shot instead of after. :smt013
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We got to handle the guns pretty young. My dad was big on cleaning and taking good care of them. He preached that and taught me what to do to each of them. Every time my brother and dad went hunting I was like a little puppy, tongue hanging out, a$$ a wigglin', I couldn't wait until they came home so I could clean those guns.:smt101 What I did was very important you know, my dad told me so. I don't think my dad ever cleaned his own after that.:lol: Geez, I haven't thought about that in years.
 
GoFirst,
Excellent Responses.

To the original messengers question: The best weapon is one you are most comfortable with and familiar with. It could be a .38+, a 9mm or a 30-06. Sometimes the most lethal gun owner is the person who only owns one - cause he/she probably knows how to use it.

I would recommend something stainless for obvious reasons, howeverif desiring something larger caliber, I might offer the Remington 887. I've been impressed with its Armor-Lokt weatherproofing.

Have a safe day.
 
Blitzn said:
GoFirst,
Excellent Responses.

Sometimes the most lethal gun owner is the person who only owns one - cause he/she probably knows how to use it.

Have a safe day.
Click to expand...

I wholeheartedly agree with your comment about the person who owns only one gun. To paraphrase Elmer Keith (arguably one of the most proficient shooters EVER) he said the same thing...."beware of the man who owns one gun because he knows how to use it."

I've fired about 5,000 rounds through my model 60 over the years. I qualified with it every year on a standard PPC course that included shooting at 50 yards. When I pick it up, I don't even need to look at it to see where my hand goes, where the sights are, or where it's going to hit.

If a bad guy has done something that forces me to shoot him to stop whatever it is he's doing, if he's within 40-50 yards of me I have no doubt I'll hit him at least 80% of the time.

At 15 yards and closer that goes up to near 100%. The secret to being able to hit what you're aiming at is really not a secret. It's practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice. Oh and did I mention lots of practice.

By the way, the guy who made the video on "The Judge" handgun lost a lot of my respect 30 seconds into the video when he swung the cylinder closed by flipping the gun to the right. Anyone who knows anything about revolvers knows that's one of the hardest things you can do to a gun. There's no faster way to bend the crane that to do a cowboy move like he did.

He also said several times in the video that The Judge is designed to be a "car gun" because it's so big. Then he went on to explain how he carries it with #4 shot when he's out walking his dog in case he's charged by a raging pit bull. A bit of a contradiction there, don't you think?

On the matter of the size of The Judge....if he thinks that's a big gun he better not try packing around a standard size .45 auto or my S&W .40 Auto.

With some people you really don't know how stupid they are until they open their mouth and prove your suspicions.

Just sayin'..........


GFC
 
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