Guilty or not?

Discussion in 'The Tiki Bar' started by Gofirstclass, Sep 28, 2018.

  1. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    No, not our future Supreme Court Justice, it's ME I'm wondering about.

    Here's the deal. Tonight my wife and I took her 102 year old mother out to dinner. The hostess seated us then a waitress showed up to get our drink orders. She was about 18-20 years old and had long brown hair that hung to below her waist.

    I commented to her about her hair, saying "You sure have pretty hair." That was it, no further comment from me, and she thanked me and said that she usually wore it up but today decided to wear it down.

    That was it. She walked away and my wife chided me about flirting with her.

    So my question to you, and I hope to hear from some of the ladies on here also:
    Was I out of line by paying her a compliment about her hair?

    Have we gotten so hung up on the spectacle that's going on about the #MeToo movement and the mess about Brett Kavanaugh that a guy isn't safe even paying a compliment to a young lady?

    What say you?
     
  2. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Active Member

    179
    Sep 12, 2009
    IL
    281
    V8
    Sounds like assault to me. Or sexual harassment. Definitely something criminal. Your toast. :)

    So I think the people on tv and at university would have an issue. Those of us in fly over country don't think would care. Good luck with the old lady though.
     
  3. scooper321

    scooper321 Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    565
    Jul 4, 2015
    Baltimore, MD
    "Lollygagger" 2003 Sundancer 320, Simrad NSS2 Evo9
    Twin 5.7L Horizon Mercruiser (350 MAG MPI) V-drives
    Paying someone a single compliment isn’t over the line. Unless you were leering at her or used a creepy old guy stalker voice. If you kept on going with additional, unwelcomed compliments then yes, guilty. But one complement is no sin. In fact, your kind words might have made her day!
     
    techmitch likes this.
  4. Dani-Lu

    Dani-Lu Member

    435
    Apr 20, 2007
    Long Island - Great South Bay
    2001 410DA
    3126 Cats
    If you are okay with your wife telling a young waiter he has beautiful eyes, then no harm done.
     
    Bridog likes this.
  5. boatman37

    boatman37 Well-Known Member

    Jun 6, 2015
    pittsburgh
    2006 Crownline 250CR
    Previous: 1986 Sea Ray 250 Sundancer
    5.7 Merc
    I see no problem with it but you'll never be a Supreme Court Justice now:)
     
  6. Bridog

    Bridog Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Gulf Shores AL / Brick NJ
    2016 19SPX OB
    Mercury 150 4S OB
    Why did your wife reprimand you? Do you have a history of this sort of behavior? Seems to me this might not have been your first time doing this. She probably went home and told her friends about some old guy hitting on her at work. I wouldn't be surprised if your chased out of there next time you go. Sarcasm aside, it's a different world we're living in today my friend. Sadly, it's probably best not to say anything in the future. Anyway...how was the Whataburger?
     
  7. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    Doggoneit, the 'pound me too' movement is a subject for lengthy winter discussion....don't waste it.
     
    iBoat Skipper Doug likes this.
  8. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    I spent almost 30 years in the apparel manufacturing business, doing and supervising engineering, production management projects in mostly female workforce environments. Sexual harassment was never an issue and where the line is was never in question. Simply stated for it to be harassment, the perpertrator must have the ability to cause harm to the victim by actions of direct supervision, pay, rates of pay or raises, promotion, work assignment, etc. Touching, bumping, groping is assault. Both are hard to prove and end up in "he said; she said" cases which almost never get prosecuted.

    We never even wanted a whiff of impropriety so our guys were taught to be careful, no touching, and try to avoid talking about anything personal, never interview a female employee alone, always have a "witness" in the office with you, etc. Once you get to know an employee, a server, etc. and they know you mean nothing by a compliment, even a clumsy comment is received as it is meant. I may have owned the consulting firm or been a corporate officer, but the ladies in the factories all knew me as Frank and treated me as one of their own. I got to know them, know some of their children, their dogs names and many of their husbands. I could say "You look nice today" or pat them on the shoulder as they were leaving the factory and say "You did good today, thanks" without it being misconstrued.

    Complimenting a server on her hair?.......I probably wouldn't because of the 30 years I spent being careful to avoid any hint of something over the line, but everone is different. Did this constitute harassment? No, if all you did was order dinner and tipped the normal amount.
     
  9. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    Spent many years working with, supervising, and commanding some of the best people I ever met in my life. Many of them happened to be women. As much as I respected and admired them I learned quickly about boundaries.
    Rule #1 was to avoid being unnecessarily alone with them, or out of view of others wherever possible.
    Keep it professional at all times, but even more so at times when you must be alone with them.
    Never, ever participate in any conversation that might be deemed sexual in nature. Even if the woman initiates it and no matter how close friends you have become.
    I’ve seen several guys fall in to that trap and get accused of creating a hostile work environment.
    I would steer clear of making comments one way or the other about a woman’s appearance other than my wife or daughter. Especially a woman who is a stranger.
    If the woman doesn’t appreciate the comment and squawks about it you will likely be labeled as some kind of predator.
    Had a discussion with my wife after watching the senate circus Thursday.
    My wife is a hugger. I am not. Not because I don’t like them, but because I don’t want a hug to be misinterpreted.
    I told her that men can’t be huggers these days.
    My standard is to extend my hand to a woman for a handshake when greeting or saying goodbye. Even women who are long time friends and relatives outside of my immediate family.
    If the woman comes in for a hug or to plant a peck on the cheek, then I will be receptive. If not, then the handshake is as far as it goes.
    Our son is away at his freshman year in college this year.
    My wife, after being horrified by what she saw Kavanaugh get attacked about, called him Thursday night and gave him “the talk” that she said that all parents now need to have with their son’s these days.
     
  10. iBoat Skipper Doug

    iBoat Skipper Doug Member

    81
    Aug 8, 2018
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    2003 225 Weekender w/Bravo III drive
    2019 Venture trailer
    5.7 MPI Mercruiser w/Bravo III drive
    When I was asked “Honey, do these pants make my ars look big” I thought I handeled it well when I replied “No Dear, your ars makes those pants look small.”

    PS: Dang our guest bed mattress is uncomfortable.
     
    AndrewD and boatman37 like this.
  11. yobub

    yobub Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    104
    Jul 29, 2016
    Chicago
    1998 400 Sundancer
    Cat 3116's
    Your intent may have been genuine, but you dont know how it was perceived by the recipient. It may have made her uncomfortable, for reasons you couldn't have predicted. You dont know. It clearly made an impression on your wife, so you know how it was received by her.

    It may be difficult or inconvenient to try to predict how a comment or action may be received by the other party, but life goes smoother if we try to understand the other side.

    For me, I'm no snowflake but I would never make that type of a comment toward someone with.whom I'm in a professional relationship. The waitress is at work, you are her customer, it's a professional relationship. If I want to spread goodwill, I compliment someone on how well they are doing their job.

    Edit: Here's a real easy test. Would you have made the same comment if the server was a guy? Would you tell a 19 year old guy that he has nice hair? Nice eyes?
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
  12. Bt Doctur

    Bt Doctur Well-Known Member

    Aug 21, 2010
    New Jersey
    Ex SRV 240 Weekender twin
    in between
    Now if you said to your wife"Look at those headlights/taillights " she might get jealous
     
  13. Ididntdoit

    Ididntdoit Well-Known Member

    Dec 5, 2007
    Newport, RI
    300 Sundancer
    5.0MPI Bravo III
    18 to 20 yrs old......you're definately a perv LOL
     
  14. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    By today's standards....you're an overweight, old white male, you're guilty. What makes you think you have the right to evaluate her appearance? It's not as if she asked you for validation as in 'Do you think my hair looks nice?'

    She may unknowingly be flattering herself by thinking you are undressing her with your eyes, her thoughts shared/compared with other waitresses, you are thought of as an old white male perv. For cryin' out loud you even do this stuff right in front of your wife, another indication of your lack of respect for women.

    Perhaps you will be tolerated as long as you tip well, or maybe the manager will ask you to never return because you make the waitstaff feel uncomfortable.

    This of course will get back to the Yacht Club....'Did you hear what happened to GFC? He was kicked out of the Diner because he was harassing the waitresses'. That'll not surprise some because they see how you look at them when they're sunning themselves on the bow. They've already taken notice of how you treat your wife, referring to her as 'Galley Wench' as if she is not your equal. They hope you seek help for you problem and in the mean time just won't raft up alongside you.

    You're screwed, life will never be the same, you may as well move and start over.
     
    bobeast likes this.
  15. M Prod

    M Prod Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    552
    Oct 6, 2017
    North Vancouver, BC
    2005 Sundancer 340
    Aquapro Dinghy w/ Honda 8hp
    Kohler 5KW Genny
    Raymarine Electronics
    8.1 Horizons /V Drives
    My wife would not be having it ..and I know she would never comment on another man’s physical appearance in the same sense. That’s just us though ...that said I can understand the context you made the remark in. I’m sure her hair was quite extraordinary. However I would have likely waited for her to go and then said something like “wonder when was the last time she cut her hair” to my wife.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2018
  16. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    OK, I guess I had much of this coming. One thing I purposely did not put in my OP was that the waitress was very pleased at my comment and said I was the second person who had complimented her that day and maybe she should start wearing it down more often.

    As to the tip, I don't know because my wife filled out the charge slip while I was in the head.

    One other thing, to Woody, I'll just say that "Galley Wench" was my wife's choice of terms to call her and she preferred it to Admiral, Deck Hand or any of a handful of other terms.

    As to the rest of the comments, I'm sure they were given in honest appraisal of what I wrote so I will take them to heart and readjust my thinking.

    Thank you.
     
  17. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    There's no need for a 'Galley Wench' explanation. I think you're misunderstanding my post.
     
  18. Air O'Nautical

    Air O'Nautical Active Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Stamford CT "Ponus Yacht Club"
    1995 400EC. Raymarine E80,4kw dome, Garmin 235 gps,
    2013 7.4L Mercruiser Blue water.
    Hurth straight shaft 630's,
    Westerbeke 7.0 BCG
    Isn’t it a ridiculous new world we live in. One where you can’t complement someone for fear of offending them. I think your fine, “not guilty”.
    The new world of texting zombies that have zero social ability and are offended by everything will certainly differ from my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2018
  19. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    Not just 'ridiculous', something like the 'Me Too' movement that almost immediately became weaponized is outright dangerous.
     
    Air O'Nautical and Steve S like this.
  20. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    Woody, I didn't misunderstand your posts. That you believe I call my wife "Galley Wench" as a way to demean her shows that you know absolutely nothing about me or "us" as a couple. But then, that's understandable because you have never met us.

    Were it possible for you to somehow take a poll of the female members of our club you would be surprised at home many would agree that not only do my wife and I love each other very much but we are viewed by the members of the club as a very happy, loving couple.
     

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