Got A Leak - Help!

That was my point... sounded like BS to me...

But I don't have that set up... My 380 DA did but I never knocked them off.

BTW: Is this boat still in the water?
 
Oh no, Gary you called my bluff... I have been exposed as an idiot, full of B.S. with no factual data. Get a grip, where do you think I bought the replacement part and what do you think they told me when I asked about the flimsily mount... Now Gary, that doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out... And quite frankly I'm a little disappointed in you.

You and your great B.S. detector might need a tune up....
 
So if the rudders and props are lower in the water, why aren't they designed to be "break away"? Maybe the thing is just a flimsy mount? Some goofball sitting behind a parts counter at a Sea Ray dealer knows they are "designed to break away"? Come on... That's why I asked your source. If it was truly designed to "breakaway", I would think there would be breakaway bolts/studs installed on the thing.

Maybe that Yugo I owned in 1981 was designed to be really good in crashes because stuff would break away also.

I had the table on my bridge break off the floor when I first got my boat because it didn't have a back plate on it but some self tapping wood screws in the fiberglass. The excuse one of the owners of the Sea Ray dealer gave me was "they didn't want to add too much weight to the bridge or the boat would be top heavy." Uhh... sure...
 
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Where's the hydrodynamic pressure and cored hull with weeping BS? Gary's BS meter seems to be working well even if it is pegged.

As for the underwater exhausts on Sea Rays... I've always wondered why they weren't designed in a single crescent shape so that debris could not hook on the front of the bulb? Debris that might have otherwise been pushed down and around the projection now has the ability to hook and tear the appendage off. And, no, nothing with stainless thru bolts was designed to shear.
 
OK sports fans... My sources have been called into question about the mounting design of my underwater exhaust. Now my question was to Mark Muntz at Corp. SeaRay specifically asked about my boat... 4 screws and alot of silicone.

Mark,

"Yes that is a correct assessment of why they are installed that way they are designed to be break away in the event of striking an object or grounding the boat."


Mark R. Muntz
Florida Customer Service,
Sea Ray Boats, Inc.
1-321-449-8628, Option one

Hi Mark,

I have a question I hope you can help answer.... I have a 1998 450 Sun Dancer with the underwater exhaust.
The unit is held to bottom side of the boat by 4 screws and a lot of silicone. I have been told that this is designed that way in case of hitting an underwater obstruction it would simply shear off instead of ripping a hole in the bottom of the boat. What is Sea Ray's official take on this.....

Thank you, Mark D. Flaten
 
THEBILLCOLLECTOR said:
OK sports fans... My sources have been called into question about the mounting design of my underwater exhaust. Now my question was to Mark Muntz at Corp. SeaRay specifically asked about my boat... 4 screws and alot of silicone.

Mark,

"Yes that is a correct assessment of why they are installed that way they are designed to be break away in the event of striking an object or grounding the boat."


Mark R. Muntz
Florida Customer Service,
Sea Ray Boats, Inc.
1-321-449-8628, Option one

Hi Mark,

I have a question I hope you can help answer.... I have a 1998 450 Sun Dancer with the underwater exhaust.
The unit is held to bottom side of the boat by 4 screws and a lot of silicone. I have been told that this is designed that way in case of hitting an underwater obstruction it would simply shear off instead of ripping a hole in the bottom of the boat. What is Sea Ray's official take on this.....

Thank you, Mark D. Flaten
Click to expand...


Interesting, where you find affirmation, I see that he slapped a gnat.

Those exhaust ports are attached with 4 stainless bolts, not screws. The WILL shear, but they were not designed or installed with breakaway studs, bolts, or engineered fail points. Either way, there are EASY design improvements that could be made so that fewer would shear and cause leaks.
 
Mark Muntz is a goob...

Let me send him an email and ask him about my bridge table and see if it was just a cheap mount or they were worried about adding too much weight.

Oh... wait! I wonder if this is the guy I talked to there when I had my hydraulic steering line burst only to find it was the wrong hose (fuel line and not hydraulic line for the rated pressure) and he gave me the excuse "The line should be fine because the safety factor built into the hose is much bigger than what is printed on the side." $2000 later on my nickel to fix it all....
 
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Four Suns said:
As Club Sea Ray spirals down because of jack asses that don't like it when one stands up to statements that make no sense, I wonder how long it'll be before the more knowledgeable people move on to other sites...

jerk.jpg
Click to expand...

I thought reputation was turned off?

I would haul the boat immediately...this is not something you want to put off.
 
Four Suns said:
They do... if you have coring in the hull, the hydrostatic pressure will penetrate 1/4" of gel coat and glass and soak the core and cause pencil lead size holes that exist all over inside the bilge to pee like a race horses and kick in the secondary bilge pumps... learned it here today.
Click to expand...

Why all the sarcasm....is this really necessary?
 
dane507 said:
Okay, I finally found the problem. First I have to say, I was delayed a week trying to pull the boat out of the water because of rough weather here in North Carolina. The screw repair is still holding but I couldn't wait any longer. I got out my scuba tank and went under the boat. The starboard side exhaust elbow (V drives) was completely sheared off the hull. There is only a small scrape on the hull forward of the trim tab, but the entire exhaust collector is gone!

The silicone sealing material is still there, but the collector is gone. I had six people on the boat when I must have hit something, but no one felt or heard anything. The Nuese and Trent rivers here have been kicking up over a couple of storms and there must have been a submerged log.

Thanks to all, comments?
Click to expand...

This happened to my father-in-laws 420 AC while we were out in the ocean. We heard a bump but never paid too m uch attention to it.

We discovered the "leak" once docked as the emergency pump was coming on every 60 seconds. I crawled into the engine compartment and could see water trickling in but could not see the source. I thought it might be the underwater exhaust. They pulled the boat immediately and sure enough it was gone. They are made to break off.
 
Four Suns said:
You know that for a fact or is that an assumption? Something about self-tapping screws in fiberglass doesn't sound like a winning design IMO.
Click to expand...

Liberty Landing mechanics in NYC told my father-in-law this was by design, the underwater exhaust is designed to break off.

Now, I guess I need to say as the flame is on it's way, I have no idea if they are authorities in Gary's book of authorities. I am just sharing info passed along to me from what "I" considered a reputable source, which I thought we all did here. Looks like we now need to qualify our sources.

My BS meter is always on and I get told I ask way to many questions, usually the "How do you know that?" question. However, in this forum, I repect what everyone is saying, take it for what it's worth, am thankful for the feedback, feel pretty confident folks are not BSing me and move on.

Hey, just my 2 cents worth. If you keep pushing on some folks they will leave, and I will miss their valuable input.
 
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mrsrobinson said:
Liberty Landing mechanics in NYC told my father-in-law this was by design, the underwater exhaust is designed to break off.
Click to expand...

I'll stand by my comment that if it was "designed to break off", it wouldn't cause leaks when it did. It would have a plate embedded flush with the hull with breakaway bolts (not thru hull) such that you would get a clean break and no leaks.
 
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Those exhaust ports are attached with 4 stainless bolts, not screws.

Mine are attached by four screws....

And per Gary, Mark Muntz is a "goob" so I am done with this thread...
 
Before you leave...

Are the screws just in the fiberglass? Is there a coring behind them for the screws to bite into? That just seems like a crummy design if that's the case. Either way.... What prevents a little "bump" from making the thing come a little lose, i.e. not noticable, and getting water intrusion/wicking in the fiberglass?

I'm confused why everyone wants to say this is such a great design when the three times I've heard in the last 12 months of these things getting knocked off, the hull leaks.
 
In my father-in-laws boat there were 4 screws if I recall. My guess, as I never saw one, is they were 1/2" in length based on the holes I saw, phillips head (from looking at the other side) if that matters.

Just from looking at this set up I can tell you they are designed, at least the ones on his boat and ours, to break off. There is no way these 4 little screws could hold up to a major impact. Note, I did not conduct any studies or do any additional research on this, it's just my opinion.

I understand your concerns with this design, and your desire to learn. I simply think you can make your points with a little less sarcasm and be a little less aggressive in your replies. To each his own though, I am not judging you.

The poster felt comfortable, and so do I, he spoke with, or emailed with, a reputable source at Sea Ray who confirmed his assessment.
 
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mrsrobinson said:
Just from looking at this set up I can tell you they are designed, at least the ones on his boat and ours, to break off. There is no way these 4 little screws could hold up to a major impact.
Click to expand...

There's a big difference between something that is "designed to break off" and something that "will break off" if hit.... This falls into the "will break off" camp... the rest is marketing... and people that fall for it.
 
So it's your position this was a bad design from day 1, still is, and rather than make it better Sea Ray holds onto it's by design for marketing reasons? You really think Sea Ray wants to accept the risk of a boat sinking because of marketing?
 
I as I said earlier I was surprised to see it missing. I do recall a small thud from a piece of wood I hit at about 20 knots, but thought it had just bumped the hull and didn't think much of it. I pulled boat out 2 months later and made the discovery. Sunnfjord boats installed the replacement part I picked it up from Lake Union Sea Ray in Seattle. I had no leaks in the bilge and the boat yard (http://www.sunnfjordboats.com/) didn't inform me of any problems created by the departure of my exhaust (doesn't mean there weren't any-they just didn't tell me of any). Now, Sunnfjord boats, Corp Sea Ray and yes Gary the parts guy at the counter have all now confirmed in 1998 that was the design and theory (however flawed) behind this all....
 
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