Just trying to learn... just trying to learn...
Got A Leak - Help!
- Thread starter dane507
- Start date
Just trying to learn... just trying to learn...
Pirate
New Member
As you are already well aware, there will be a logical explanation that has nothing to do with cored hulls, hydrostatic pressure, or spontaneous holing of fiberglass hulls. Amazing you have to defend yourself simply for using humor to identify the BS. :huh:
- Oct 6, 2006
- 12,153
- Boat Info
- 1996 450DA
- Engines
- 3116 Caterpillars
Matt is right in his statement that your quick fix may not have worked.
What if.....and this is my guess as to the leak BTW, the thru-hull had a slow leak that went un-noticed for while. The thru hull is mounted in a saw cut hole thru the bottom. If the leak reached ran into the fiberglass lay up, the hydrostatic pressure could have created a void between layers in the substraite. The water would gradually migrate into the void it created until it worked it way out. It came out in the bilge. Now, what if the leak had been right at the inner surface of the fiberglass and your screw just punctured the inner layer of the void but there wasn't enough thickness to hold the screw? You'd have one fine mess on your hands and a crisis as you searched for someone to do a haul out on the weekend because you would be out of options other than sit with the boat to be sure the leak didn't over come the bilge pumps' capacity beore you got the boat hauled.
Luckily, the fix for this problem sounds worse then it is........but the boat needs to be out of the water NOW and the repairs assigned to someone experienced in upside down hull repairs like this. There will be a lot of grinding and a big hole but it should be a pretty easy fix.
For the record, the 330DA is a Knoxville or Tellico boat and I don't believe they build cored hulls there.
What if.....and this is my guess as to the leak BTW, the thru-hull had a slow leak that went un-noticed for while. The thru hull is mounted in a saw cut hole thru the bottom. If the leak reached ran into the fiberglass lay up, the hydrostatic pressure could have created a void between layers in the substraite. The water would gradually migrate into the void it created until it worked it way out. It came out in the bilge. Now, what if the leak had been right at the inner surface of the fiberglass and your screw just punctured the inner layer of the void but there wasn't enough thickness to hold the screw? You'd have one fine mess on your hands and a crisis as you searched for someone to do a haul out on the weekend because you would be out of options other than sit with the boat to be sure the leak didn't over come the bilge pumps' capacity beore you got the boat hauled.
Luckily, the fix for this problem sounds worse then it is........but the boat needs to be out of the water NOW and the repairs assigned to someone experienced in upside down hull repairs like this. There will be a lot of grinding and a big hole but it should be a pretty easy fix.
For the record, the 330DA is a Knoxville or Tellico boat and I don't believe they build cored hulls there.
RobF300
Member
- Nov 22, 2006
- 368
- Boat Info
- old and useless
- Engines
- 5.7/alpha
413 Chrysler straight inboard
there are no clamshells on the hull bottom of that boat, come to think of it I have never seen clamshells under the waterline of any searay. I am just going off the ones that come to the top of my head made in the last 30 years or so, no factory installed clamshells.
The OP emailed me and got basically the same answers as some on here have already given, obviously something ELSE is leaking in the boat and the visual part of it happens to be this small break in the glass where he sees the water.
He claims the water is clear so it should not be a leak thats too old just now coming to the surface, im still waiting on the results of his survey when they purchased the boat recently.
The OP emailed me and got basically the same answers as some on here have already given, obviously something ELSE is leaking in the boat and the visual part of it happens to be this small break in the glass where he sees the water.
He claims the water is clear so it should not be a leak thats too old just now coming to the surface, im still waiting on the results of his survey when they purchased the boat recently.
tobnpr
New Member
Seems to me saying a "statment makes no sense" is tantamount to saying it's impossible.
I think YOU don't know what you're talking about...
And since this thread has obviously gone south, so shall I... got better things to do.
There is another simple explanation... Maybe he HIT something... The Neuse River, at least the 3 times I've been on it, is a floating debris field at times (what color is that water BTW?).
I will say I thought Blubelly was saying the screws were from the inside and 1/4" of glass and gelcoat would fall victim to hydrostatic pressure (which is silly) but I see he was talking about screws on the outside... but I'm not sure anyone even said there were screws on the outside...
My point here is that I'm still not sure what "coring" has to do with this as I bet almost all the boats on this board have cored transoms and upper decks. Do they spontaneously leak? No...
If you hit something and have a leak, you have to get the boat out of the water ASAP or you'll have bigger problems. Water wicking up fiberglass strands and producing a leak with enough flow where secondary bilge pumps are kicking ( 2000 GPH?) in does not happen in 5 months without something else happening if the hull was, in fact, good 5 months ago. Coring or not.
And yes... I don't know what I'm talking about. But what the hell. I got my post count up by 1.
I will say I thought Blubelly was saying the screws were from the inside and 1/4" of glass and gelcoat would fall victim to hydrostatic pressure (which is silly) but I see he was talking about screws on the outside... but I'm not sure anyone even said there were screws on the outside...
My point here is that I'm still not sure what "coring" has to do with this as I bet almost all the boats on this board have cored transoms and upper decks. Do they spontaneously leak? No...
If you hit something and have a leak, you have to get the boat out of the water ASAP or you'll have bigger problems. Water wicking up fiberglass strands and producing a leak with enough flow where secondary bilge pumps are kicking ( 2000 GPH?) in does not happen in 5 months without something else happening if the hull was, in fact, good 5 months ago. Coring or not.
And yes... I don't know what I'm talking about. But what the hell. I got my post count up by 1.
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Instead of saying clamshells I should have said scoops. The last 4 Sea Ray's that I have owned have had them on the Air Conditioning water intakes. They are scoop-like through hulls that will pick up water as the boat is moving forward. My 1995 290 sundancer had a scoop style thru-hull that had 3 screws securing it in place from the underside. That is why I speculate that one of those screws may have completely corroded out.
tginz
New Member
It is surprising how thin these hulls are. After resetting a thru-hull sender, I was shocked to find my 240 had a hull thickness of 3/8" just one foot off the very bottom of the "V". I'm used to old sailboats that have 1.5" solid hulls. Hate to find a rock the "hard" way with my 240.
Sorry to hear about the problem. It will be an easy fix with a small amount of West System, unrelated to West Marine. However, I would do a thorough investigation of the remainder of the hull to determine why it occured!
Sorry to hear about the problem. It will be an easy fix with a small amount of West System, unrelated to West Marine. However, I would do a thorough investigation of the remainder of the hull to determine why it occured!
dane507
New Member
- Apr 14, 2008
- 65
- Boat Info
- 330 Sundancer 1997, Sea Eagle 810 dinghy w/6HP Johnson
- Engines
- 454s with V-drives
Thanks to everyone who gave ideas and suggestions. I'm pulling it tomorrow (the screw is still holding) and I'll let you know what they find.
Thanks again
Thanks again
RobF300
Member
- Nov 22, 2006
- 368
- Boat Info
- old and useless
- Engines
- 5.7/alpha
413 Chrysler straight inboard
there is plenty of balsa core in older 33 dancers, his boat is a 1997
I have never seen pick up screws rot out either, but there could always be a first time
I have never seen pick up screws rot out either, but there could always be a first time
Although unrelated to this problem, and I may have posted this before, when the yard put the bolt holes in my hull for my SSB grounding plate, I was surprised by the method. The holes ended up being in what appeared to be a solid glass area but instead of drilling a 1/4" holes for the bolts, they drilled about 1/2" holes all the way through the hull. They then put a small fiberglass cloth patch that was about 2" square on the outside each hole and flared that out to match the hull surface. The holes were then filled with epoxy and 1/4" holes drilled through that for the bolts to go through.
I knew a similar process was used on cored hulls but though it only went to the outer skin on the hull and not all the way through. I sure didn't think this was used on a solid glass area. The tech told me they do this now because they don't want any water wicking up the fiberglass strands if the 5200 seal starts to leak for whatever reason. The worst that can happen with this approach is water will wick up the small 2" patch. This is a high-end yard and they know what they are doing and I know a lot of people just drill holes and 5200 stuff in but I thought I would pass on what these guys do.
If this problem ends up being some delamination issue from an outside hole or a void and you did not hit anything, I would have to believe the problem was there 5 months ago and just was not caught.
I knew a similar process was used on cored hulls but though it only went to the outer skin on the hull and not all the way through. I sure didn't think this was used on a solid glass area. The tech told me they do this now because they don't want any water wicking up the fiberglass strands if the 5200 seal starts to leak for whatever reason. The worst that can happen with this approach is water will wick up the small 2" patch. This is a high-end yard and they know what they are doing and I know a lot of people just drill holes and 5200 stuff in but I thought I would pass on what these guys do.
If this problem ends up being some delamination issue from an outside hole or a void and you did not hit anything, I would have to believe the problem was there 5 months ago and just was not caught.
Dane 507
For what it's worth, I can relate an experience I had with a leak in the hull of my 260DA just recently. It was a thru hull leak at my AC Sea Cock but it only leaked while underway. I theorize that it must have created enough pressure while underway to force the water out at the base of the fitting inside the boat. When my dealer took the fitting off it was determined it was improperly caulked around the base of the thru-hull at the factory. I was there when he removed it so I could see first hand what the the issue was. Luckily, the hole itself that had been drilled thru the bottom of the boat was sealed very well with 5200 all around the circumference of the hole. If it hadn't been, then I suppose the water could have migrated into the fiberglass strands on the hull and then maybe showed up in the bilge elsewhere. (That would have been a nightmare to find though on my boat because it has a hull liner too :wow
. Possibly something similar is happening on your 330DA but until you pull the boat and have someone check it out you won't know for sure.
Please keep us posted on what you find.
For what it's worth, I can relate an experience I had with a leak in the hull of my 260DA just recently. It was a thru hull leak at my AC Sea Cock but it only leaked while underway. I theorize that it must have created enough pressure while underway to force the water out at the base of the fitting inside the boat. When my dealer took the fitting off it was determined it was improperly caulked around the base of the thru-hull at the factory. I was there when he removed it so I could see first hand what the the issue was. Luckily, the hole itself that had been drilled thru the bottom of the boat was sealed very well with 5200 all around the circumference of the hole. If it hadn't been, then I suppose the water could have migrated into the fiberglass strands on the hull and then maybe showed up in the bilge elsewhere. (That would have been a nightmare to find though on my boat because it has a hull liner too :wow
. Possibly something similar is happening on your 330DA but until you pull the boat and have someone check it out you won't know for sure.Please keep us posted on what you find.
Reading this thread reminds me of why it is so important to have shore power hooked up when you are away from the boat. And the importance of having a second functional bilge pump.
If this happened to me, I would have crapped my pants. Overwhelming the primary bilge pump means that a crapload of water was coming into the boat.
I suspect the culprit will become very obvious once the boat is out of the water. I would be very curious to see what caused this. As Frank suggested, the fix probably will be both straight forward and look ugly while it is being done.
- - - - - - -
And, I must admit that I too initially failed to see what "cored hull" had to do with a "big leak".
If this happened to me, I would have crapped my pants. Overwhelming the primary bilge pump means that a crapload of water was coming into the boat.
I suspect the culprit will become very obvious once the boat is out of the water. I would be very curious to see what caused this. As Frank suggested, the fix probably will be both straight forward and look ugly while it is being done.
- - - - - - -
And, I must admit that I too initially failed to see what "cored hull" had to do with a "big leak".
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dane507
New Member
- Apr 14, 2008
- 65
- Boat Info
- 330 Sundancer 1997, Sea Eagle 810 dinghy w/6HP Johnson
- Engines
- 454s with V-drives
I will let everyone know as soon as I know.
Thanks,
Thanks,
dane507
New Member
- Apr 14, 2008
- 65
- Boat Info
- 330 Sundancer 1997, Sea Eagle 810 dinghy w/6HP Johnson
- Engines
- 454s with V-drives
Okay, I finally found the problem. First I have to say, I was delayed a week trying to pull the boat out of the water because of rough weather here in North Carolina. The screw repair is still holding but I couldn't wait any longer. I got out my scuba tank and went under the boat. The starboard side exhaust elbow (V drives) was completely sheared off the hull. There is only a small scrape on the hull forward of the trim tab, but the entire exhaust collector is gone!
The silicone sealing material is still there, but the collector is gone. I had six people on the boat when I must have hit something, but no one felt or heard anything. The Nuese and Trent rivers here have been kicking up over a couple of storms and there must have been a submerged log.
Thanks to all, comments?
The silicone sealing material is still there, but the collector is gone. I had six people on the boat when I must have hit something, but no one felt or heard anything. The Nuese and Trent rivers here have been kicking up over a couple of storms and there must have been a submerged log.
Thanks to all, comments?
It sounds like the missing part is the bronze underwater exhaust venturi, as shown in the image.
That part is retained to the hull by four SS bolts and sealed against the hull.
It sound like one of the four bolts is leaking.
Please get really close to the other three and report if any noise is detected. There should be a faint ticking sound...
Wow, that the impact was not felt or heard.
That part is retained to the hull by four SS bolts and sealed against the hull.
It sound like one of the four bolts is leaking.
Please get really close to the other three and report if any noise is detected. There should be a faint ticking sound...
Wow, that the impact was not felt or heard.
- Jun 2, 2008
- 5,023
- Boat Info
- 1998 450 Sundancer, Achilles dinghy w/15hp
- Engines
- 3126 Cat's
I received the same surprise this past March when I hauled my boat.... Missing port side exhaust..... I thought the Cat's sounded a little funny (ya think ???). Anyway, they are designed to rip away without taking the bottom of your boat with it when it releases itself from your vessel..... Hence, the 4 little screws and a lot of silicone....
You know that for a fact or is that an assumption? Something about self-tapping screws in fiberglass doesn't sound like a winning design IMO.
