Pakmule
Member
I got a short term sub to boattest but are there any other places with objective reviews of boats?
Good site for boat reviews?
- Thread starter Pakmule
- Start date
This site has quite a few reviews and videos too. http://www.boatinglife.com/index.jsp
- Oct 6, 2006
- 12,153
- Boat Info
- 1996 450DA
- Engines
- 3116 Caterpillars
I guess I have a bad attitude when it comes to ratings and tests.
Before believing....and certainly reacting to...... anything you read. always consider who has something to gain by publishing that information. You quickly discover that the same advertiser who funds the publication also make the products being reviewed. Only an idiot bites the hand that feed him. So if what you are reading is supported by ad money, be careful.
When was the last review you read that said "This boat is a dog" or "This boat handles like a refrigerator around the dock"? The most agressive reviewer or tester usually has very benign complaints like "The inside of the storage compartment should have a carpeted bottom" or the "Hatch rattles".
I tend to think the best reviews come from present and previous owners. If you are interested in a Sea Ray than ask the CSR members. If another brand suits your fancy, look for a forum of thier owners or go to a general boating forum with a large membership like Boat/US.
Also, try going to a large marina on the weekend, walk the docks and ask folks how they like their boat. People love to talk about their boat and you may be suprised at what you learn. Owners also know before anyone else who is selling and moving up so you may find a lead on a grreat used boat opportunity.
Before believing....and certainly reacting to...... anything you read. always consider who has something to gain by publishing that information. You quickly discover that the same advertiser who funds the publication also make the products being reviewed. Only an idiot bites the hand that feed him. So if what you are reading is supported by ad money, be careful.
When was the last review you read that said "This boat is a dog" or "This boat handles like a refrigerator around the dock"? The most agressive reviewer or tester usually has very benign complaints like "The inside of the storage compartment should have a carpeted bottom" or the "Hatch rattles".
I tend to think the best reviews come from present and previous owners. If you are interested in a Sea Ray than ask the CSR members. If another brand suits your fancy, look for a forum of thier owners or go to a general boating forum with a large membership like Boat/US.
Also, try going to a large marina on the weekend, walk the docks and ask folks how they like their boat. People love to talk about their boat and you may be suprised at what you learn. Owners also know before anyone else who is selling and moving up so you may find a lead on a grreat used boat opportunity.
I wholeheartedly agree with what Frank is saying here. But the problem the boating industry has in general is lack of a lot of detailed information on thier boats. If you want to see what I mean, try finding any videos on new Sea Rays anywhere. Many of us are looking for more information than you can typically find in the brochures or in some of the dinky tests you see in boating magazines such as BOATING. Here's a good example of the types of videos that should be available from all manufacturers that we as customers could look at............
http://www.chaparralboats.com/containers/chaparral.html
Click on the 350 Signature Cruisers to see what I mean.
http://www.chaparralboats.com/containers/chaparral.html
Click on the 350 Signature Cruisers to see what I mean.
Pakmule
Member
Yeah that would be nice. My problem is that I am trying to find information on used boats and that is even harder to find. You'd think that you would be able to find what problems a specific boat of a specific year had.
Honestly. . .this one of the MAIN reasons I left the new market and went to the used market.
I mean. .. if I am choosing between a 350mag and a 496mag, I would like a bit more information than "it has more power". I mean LITTERALLY that is all the information I could get out of the dealer regarding powerplants.
I could not get any speed or performance information on any of the boats beyond a generic compilation of top speeds on various models. . . without indication of what engines were powering the boats.
Really useless stuff.
At some point in the boat buying process, I simply said if I can't get adequate information on a new boat -> why pay a premium for it? And nobody I was working with (either searay or crownline) would let you actually test drive the boats. I mean. .. I was looking to spend $50-80K on a boat and I couldn't actually drive one around the bay?
With this attitude, I went used. Not that I had much better luck with seatrials on the used market -> but on the used market I was putting alot less capital on the line.
I mean. .. if I am choosing between a 350mag and a 496mag, I would like a bit more information than "it has more power". I mean LITTERALLY that is all the information I could get out of the dealer regarding powerplants.
I could not get any speed or performance information on any of the boats beyond a generic compilation of top speeds on various models. . . without indication of what engines were powering the boats.
Really useless stuff.
At some point in the boat buying process, I simply said if I can't get adequate information on a new boat -> why pay a premium for it? And nobody I was working with (either searay or crownline) would let you actually test drive the boats. I mean. .. I was looking to spend $50-80K on a boat and I couldn't actually drive one around the bay?
With this attitude, I went used. Not that I had much better luck with seatrials on the used market -> but on the used market I was putting alot less capital on the line.
- Oct 6, 2006
- 12,153
- Boat Info
- 1996 450DA
- Engines
- 3116 Caterpillars
Dave's comment on no videos being available on new models doesn't suprise me. On boats that are new for the season, there just aren't that many out there and those that are are headed for dealers who have boat shows scheduled which is where the payoff in terms of sales is.
Why Sea Ray hasn't made more use of video clips as a marketing and sales tool is a completely different question. I know they have done it in the past but primarily for national ads and for sales meetings with the dealers on new model releases.
As far as being able to get specific information on used or older boats from dealers........to understand this one you have to follow the money and turnover rates. Turnover among boat sales people is very high. The guy you asked may have product information manuals for the time he's been at the dealer, but beyond that, you probably know more about the boats than he does. A sales guy who's been there a long time has the specs back a ways and is more likely to be of help.
My other point on following the money is to ask you to consider why the salesmen were no more help. They are commission paid so it is their priority is to sell you a new boat first, then a used boat next and finally a brokered boat. If they do not happen to have the model you are inquiring about, all you are to them is wasted time unless they can up sell you to something they do have. Now, if they do have the boat you are inquiring about and can't answer your questions, then just politley tell the salesman "I am a buyer for your XYZ boat and I have some specific questions about it. If you can't answer them, then go find out the answers or put me with a salesman who can."
As far as test rides go, the industry standard is no sea trials until you contrtact to buy the boat. Thee are substantial insurance and liability considerations. You can understand their point......why burn the hours off a new $80K boat for a guy who just wants a boat ride.............How does the salesman tell the difference between a qualified buyer and a tire kicker?
I will also tell you that is you are an established customer of a dealer and are seriously considering a trade up, a boat ride isn't a problem.....or it never has been for me, anyway. My problem is usually the reverse......if I ask too many questions, they put me to work running boats 45 miles from one of their stored to another and instead of an hour on the water, I get a day!
Why Sea Ray hasn't made more use of video clips as a marketing and sales tool is a completely different question. I know they have done it in the past but primarily for national ads and for sales meetings with the dealers on new model releases.
As far as being able to get specific information on used or older boats from dealers........to understand this one you have to follow the money and turnover rates. Turnover among boat sales people is very high. The guy you asked may have product information manuals for the time he's been at the dealer, but beyond that, you probably know more about the boats than he does. A sales guy who's been there a long time has the specs back a ways and is more likely to be of help.
My other point on following the money is to ask you to consider why the salesmen were no more help. They are commission paid so it is their priority is to sell you a new boat first, then a used boat next and finally a brokered boat. If they do not happen to have the model you are inquiring about, all you are to them is wasted time unless they can up sell you to something they do have. Now, if they do have the boat you are inquiring about and can't answer your questions, then just politley tell the salesman "I am a buyer for your XYZ boat and I have some specific questions about it. If you can't answer them, then go find out the answers or put me with a salesman who can."
As far as test rides go, the industry standard is no sea trials until you contrtact to buy the boat. Thee are substantial insurance and liability considerations. You can understand their point......why burn the hours off a new $80K boat for a guy who just wants a boat ride.............How does the salesman tell the difference between a qualified buyer and a tire kicker?
I will also tell you that is you are an established customer of a dealer and are seriously considering a trade up, a boat ride isn't a problem.....or it never has been for me, anyway. My problem is usually the reverse......if I ask too many questions, they put me to work running boats 45 miles from one of their stored to another and instead of an hour on the water, I get a day!
"As far as test rides go, the industry standard is no sea trials until you contrtact to buy the boat"
That is very understandable logic.
I saw the same logic applied when buying jet skis. That's a great buzz kill. That pushed me right out of the new jet ski market as well. At least buying used, I could take the prospective new ski for a joy ride to see if I liked it!
Maybe things work differently in the 32'+ market, but the under 30' market is bad for the consumer.
But. . . I guess there is a very fundamenatal truth here: They make enough money without (1) providing the customer information and (2) without customers testing boats. If they didn't. . .then they would be out of buisness right?
Maybe they figure that if people can't do adequate research and buy the wrong boat. . .then that creates A MARKET FOR TRADE UP! So selling the customer the wrong boat is actually to the dealers advantage .. .Maybe that explains a little about why new boat prices are escalating despite the soft market: If people are dumb enough to buy without adequate information, then the dealers can act like it is a seller's market, despite soft sales! I mean. . its not like there are even TWO competeing Sea Ray dealers in the NY/NJ/PA area. How does someone learn how soft the market is?
When I was looking, I did a pile of looking at new 20-24' bowriders and deck boats. Because I couldn't make a value judgement between brands (Crownline says they are the best. Sea Ray says they are better) , and couldn't discern a "fair value" from the dealers (the first price I was given on a Maxxum 22' was $5K higher than a comparable SeaRay. The second was $5K less -> within 10 minutes of casual conversation), I ultimately gave up on the new market. Sure. . . I could have nailed things down a bit better if I was "serious", but I found it hard to get serious in the absence of any objective information.
So I bought used. Did I have enough information? Heck no. But at least from Yachtworld and BoatTrader, I knew I wasn't being grossly ripped off!
That is very understandable logic.
I saw the same logic applied when buying jet skis. That's a great buzz kill. That pushed me right out of the new jet ski market as well. At least buying used, I could take the prospective new ski for a joy ride to see if I liked it!
Maybe things work differently in the 32'+ market, but the under 30' market is bad for the consumer.
But. . . I guess there is a very fundamenatal truth here: They make enough money without (1) providing the customer information and (2) without customers testing boats. If they didn't. . .then they would be out of buisness right?
Maybe they figure that if people can't do adequate research and buy the wrong boat. . .then that creates A MARKET FOR TRADE UP! So selling the customer the wrong boat is actually to the dealers advantage .. .Maybe that explains a little about why new boat prices are escalating despite the soft market: If people are dumb enough to buy without adequate information, then the dealers can act like it is a seller's market, despite soft sales! I mean. . its not like there are even TWO competeing Sea Ray dealers in the NY/NJ/PA area. How does someone learn how soft the market is?
When I was looking, I did a pile of looking at new 20-24' bowriders and deck boats. Because I couldn't make a value judgement between brands (Crownline says they are the best. Sea Ray says they are better) , and couldn't discern a "fair value" from the dealers (the first price I was given on a Maxxum 22' was $5K higher than a comparable SeaRay. The second was $5K less -> within 10 minutes of casual conversation), I ultimately gave up on the new market. Sure. . . I could have nailed things down a bit better if I was "serious", but I found it hard to get serious in the absence of any objective information.
So I bought used. Did I have enough information? Heck no. But at least from Yachtworld and BoatTrader, I knew I wasn't being grossly ripped off!
fragmag
New Member
comsnark said:
Thats weird. I test drove a few Chaparral's and the Sea Ray and Stingray (Hated It!) a few different times. I was only buying a 185 sport. I thought that everyone got a few sea trials before they had to decide and purchase.
- Oct 3, 2006
- 4,404
- Boat Info
- 280 Sundancer, Westerbeke MPV generator
- Engines
- twin 5.0's w/BIII drives
comsnark said:
I can help. The difference is 146mag. :thumbsup:
:smt043
Pakmule
Member
Considering the size of the boating industry I am just surprised that there is not some sort of independent site/magazine that discusses/reviews boats. Even something as simple as ranking various manufacturers into levels of perceived quality. Listing what that manufacturer is well known for both good and bad. Things like that.
I have heard completely conflicting stories about various boat brands and I am just confused as hell.
Oh well I am looking at more boats this Friday so I can confuse myself even more.
I have heard completely conflicting stories about various boat brands and I am just confused as hell.
Oh well I am looking at more boats this Friday so I can confuse myself even more.
smanier
New Member
I would suggest that you wait until a boat show, that is the best place to compare brands, models.
pakmule....................JD Powers provide survey results each year for the boating industry. http://www.jdpower.com/boats/
smanier said:
[soapbox]
You know. . .that really seems to be the case. And that is simply NUTS. How can you learn about a boat when people are continually crawling on it?
Boat shows are nice to quickly screen between models and brands, but once you get serious and narrow down to one or two models. . . .then you are just guessing.
- Are recessed cleats better or worse than standard cleats?
- Is carpetting in the lockers a good thing or bad thing?
- how do the scuppers drain?
- ok. . how does the broader hull of a Deckboat change the ride relative to standard bow rider?
With salesman that are both clueless and biased, boating magazines that read like paid advertisements, along with limited ability to ride boats. . . a buyer has to be extra careful.
[/soapbox]
Pakmule
Member
Dave S said:
Yep, that is the best I could find but they don't really release detailed data that I could find. Just the overall number. That is why I am looking at a Rinker 290 Fiesta Vee. The year that it was made Rinker did quite well in the rankings. I also joined the Rinker forums and they are pretty big fans obviously.
- Feb 4, 2007
- 7,251
- Boat Info
- 1996 450DA, TNT, Caribe dink w/15hp OB.
- Engines
- 3126 427HP TD transmissions
comsnark said:
I think boat shows are a great place to compare boats. You can look at a ton of boats that are being climbed on, poked, proded and it's easy to see what's breaking and what's not. Listen to the people talk about the boat, they are usually have something to say about the brand or the dealers etc... I found the shows to be the most informative part of the whole process.