Gimbal ring/gimbal housing rebuild-pics

SeaRay friends,

After reading all these posts and having to repair my gimbal ring I decided to call Mercuiser and ask their option. I explained that WE all know that right way to fix this issue would be to pull the transom housing. But with that said there are kits offered to drill /cut holes in the transom bracket. What do they recommend? He replied back and said use Quick Silver repair KIT # 22-888 47A1. It has been tested and proven to work if performed by a certified marine repair Tech ( that’s us right ??) ;-) They have heard of the JR Marine temple and cover plate and were not opposed to it, But they did say it’s never been tested at Mercuiser. I am not a marine mechanic but do hold two degree’s one in automotive repair and the other in Electrical Engineering. I work for one of the automotive company’s and deal with warranty issue’s daily and have reject many claims because proper repair procedure were not followed. I have covered claims where TSB/SSM’s performed wrong. If you follow the Quick Silver repair kit instructions the repair should be fine for many years. Keep in mind this is not a pressurized fitting or joint. Water is 0.433 Pounds pressure per square inch. I would think if it did leak it would be very minor.


I hope this helps!
 
I started this thread and the JR Marine kit was installed in 2009. I sold the boat to a fellow CSR member. He wet slips the boat in lake Erie and uses it a lot.

The repair is doing fine at the 5 year mark.
 
threejays said:
SeaRay friends,

After reading all these posts and having to repair my gimbal ring I decided to call Mercuiser and ask their option. I explained that WE all know that right way to fix this issue would be to pull the transom housing. But with that said there are kits offered to drill /cut holes in the transom bracket. What do they recommend? He replied back and said use Quick Silver repair KIT # 22-888 47A1. It has been tested and proven to work if performed by a certified marine repair Tech ( that’s us right ??) ;-) They have heard of the JR Marine temple and cover plate and were not opposed to it, But they did say it’s never been tested at Mercuiser. I am not a marine mechanic but do hold two degree’s one in automotive repair and the other in Electrical Engineering. I work for one of the automotive company’s and deal with warranty issue’s daily and have reject many claims because proper repair procedure were not followed. I have covered claims where TSB/SSM’s performed wrong. If you follow the Quick Silver repair kit instructions the repair should be fine for many years. Keep in mind this is not a pressurized fitting or joint. Water is 0.433 Pounds pressure per square inch. I would think if it did leak it would be very minor.


I hope this helps!
Click to expand...

I agree that if warranty is a consideration, by all means follow mercs guidelines. The cutout is not under much pressure as you mention, nor is it in a high temp environment. Warm maybe from the engine while underway, but hot? Not hardly. Also as you mention, if I leak was to develop for whatever reason, corrosion, vibration or whatever else was questioned the leak would be minimal. The idea of my imbedded plate completely popping out is preposterous. My repair is still holding up 4 seasons later. Thank you for your logical, realistically grounded reply.
 
MileHi270SR said:
I agree that if warranty is a consideration, by all means follow mercs guidelines. The cutout is not under much pressure as you mention, nor is it in a high temp environment. Warm maybe from the engine while underway, but hot? Not hardly. Also as you mention, if I leak was to develop for whatever reason, corrosion, vibration or whatever else was questioned the leak would be minimal. The idea of my imbedded plate completely popping out is preposterous. My repair is still holding up 4 seasons later. Thank you for your logical, realistically grounded reply.
Click to expand...


I think all the information provided by experienced boaters is priceless!! It helps us understand what it takes to perform the repair whether we pay someone or not
 
MileHi270SR said:
I agree that if warranty is a consideration, by all means follow mercs guidelines. The cutout is not under much pressure as you mention, nor is it in a high temp environment. Warm maybe from the engine while underway, but hot? Not hardly. Also as you mention, if I leak was to develop for whatever reason, corrosion, vibration or whatever else was questioned the leak would be minimal. The idea of my imbedded plate completely popping out is preposterous. My repair is still holding up 4 seasons later. Thank you for your logical, realistically grounded reply.
Click to expand...

ThreeJays boat is equipped with Alpha drives, not Bravos. It is an apples and oranges comparison. Big block driven Bravos do see a lot of heat (Google stern drive showers), especially on single engine applications. In extreme cases the drive can get hot enough to cook the gear oil. The very location where your plug is located is the spot that a drive shower cools.

To assume the transom assembly is not subjected to vibration is just silly considering; a) it is the rear engine mount, b) the entire drive line output is passed through it, and c) the part in question is attached without vibration isolation to the drive casing.

The issue is not hydrostatic pressure, but the fact that a hole of roughly 4 square inches below the waterline is beyond the capacity of the bilge pumps.

You still miss the point, one boat with four seasons of operational experience is not proof that an experimental repair method works. That coupled with your lack of knowledge of the BIII operating environment that is clearly evident from your statements, leads me to conclude your four seasons have been graced more by good luck than your prowess as a designer and fabricator.

Henry
 
I'm missing something - the plates appear to be well above any stern drive cooling/shower system. I know drives can get hot, but the transom/bell housing really shouldn't be subject to much heat. Sorry if I'm completely missing the location on this.

BTW - I used to fix cracked motorcycle cases with JB weld...we would attempt to smash up parts we welded to test the breaking points or weak areas just for fun...that stuff is tough as nails, it's certainly going to hold up for many many years to come.
 
The drive shower, directs the water to the drive , the upper gear set. Not the transom assembly where the repair is.
 
scoflaw said:
The drive shower, directs the water to the drive , the upper gear set. Not the transom assembly where the repair is.
Click to expand...

My error. But the drive (that gets hot) is attached to the transom assembly, and the repair area is directly above it, so it will see a temperature rise. And lets not forget that the engine exhaust gas exits via the transom assembly.

Henry
 
MancaveII said:
I'm missing something - the plates appear to be well above any stern drive cooling/shower system. I know drives can get hot, but the transom/bell housing really shouldn't be subject to much heat. Sorry if I'm completely missing the location on this.

BTW - I used to fix cracked motorcycle cases with JB weld...we would attempt to smash up parts we welded to test the breaking points or weak areas just for fun...that stuff is tough as nails, it's certainly going to hold up for many many years to come.
Click to expand...

I was the one in error about the location and have already commented.

The point that continues to be missed is not whether JB Weld is a good product, or not. The point is that it is untested for use in this application. On the other hand, the Mercruiser and JR Marine methods for closing up the hole have been used countless times and have thousands of hours of operation with success.

The other point is that if someone wants to experiment on their boat, that's great. What's not great is when that person jumps into a technical discussion on an Internet forum and essentially says, "You can ignore what the manufacturer recommends," without any factual basis other than they did it and nothing bad happened. One specific set of circumstances does not justify such a broad assertion. Maybe it works fine on a trailer boat that is used 3-4 times a year on a fresh water lake. How about on a boat that sits in salt water for 6-12 months a year, and sees 75-100 hours of operation per season? We don't know, and Mr. MileHI can't tell us.


Henry
 
Both sides of this discussion have merit. JB weld is an unbelievable product, and has saved my boating season before, would a manufacturer endorse JB weld as a fix all end all? Nope, don't think so.
 
Henry Boyd said:
I was the one in error about the location and have already commented.



We don't know, and Mr. MileHI can't tell us.


Henry
Click to expand...

Neither can you Mr. Henry! I shared my experience, thats IT! If someone wants to use it or not is up to them. You've made it perfectly clear how you feel about it, as unfounded as I feel it may or may not be. Your only "data" against my fix is that there is no data. Why couldn't you have just said in the first place, "I've never heard of this done before, my concerns are A B and C, keep us posted as to how it holds up" Instead you choose to bash me and tell me how I am not qualified or intelligent enough, and that my own,my family, and guests safety are of no concern to me, blah blah blah.
Quit making your derogatory jabs at me, I haven't done it to you, well, Until now...I cant help but wonder if your expertise is a little suspect with the drive shower, and the exhaust exiting through the transom assembly heating up the repair location comments. BTW exhaust heat?, thats a stretch! All that heat you would think the decal would shrivel up and drip off?? For that matter, the silicone sealing JR's plate would succumb to heat long before JB would. I know what you're thinking, no need to misconstrue that as a knock against the JR fix, it's not, just another hole in your theory. (No pun intended)

BTW I used JB to fix a leak on one of the the copper tubes on the heat exchanger for my pool heater, 5 years ago and it's still leak free. Just a guess, but Im sure the heat exchanger is a tad warmer than what we are talking about being its positioned 10" above a 300,000 BTU burner.

Don't put words into my mouth, I never said or implied to "ignore what the manufacturer recommends"

The forums are a place to share experiences and ideas and discuss them. I commented and so did you. Both sides of the argument have been voiced. Thats all I was doing but somehow you have taken my posts as a personal insult to you and feel the need to attack my competency and intelligence.

I'm done with you and this topic.


 
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MileHi270SR said:
Neither can you Mr. Henry! I shared my experience, thats IT! If someone wants to use it or not is up to them. You've made it perfectly clear how you feel about it, as unfounded as I feel it may or may not be. Your only "data" against my fix is that there is no data. Why couldn't you have just said in the first place, "I've never heard of this done before, my concerns are A B and C, keep us posted as to how it holds up" Instead you choose to bash me and tell me how I am not qualified or intelligent enough, and that my own,my family, and guests safety are of no concern to me, blah blah blah.
Quit making your derogatory jabs at me, I haven't done it to you, well, Until now...I cant help but wonder if your expertise is a little suspect with the drive shower, and the exhaust exiting through the transom assembly heating up the repair location comments. BTW exhaust heat?, thats a stretch! All that heat you would think the decal would shrivel up and drip off?? For that matter, the silicone sealing JR's plate would succumb to heat long before JB would. I know what you're thinking, no need to misconstrue that as a knock against the JR fix, it's not, just another hole in your theory. (No pun intended)

BTW I used JB to fix a leak on one of the the copper tubes on the heat exchanger for my pool heater, 5 years ago and it's still leak free. Just a guess, but Im sure the heat exchanger is a tad warmer than what we are talking about being its positioned 10" above a 300,000 BTU burner.

Don't put words into my mouth, I never said or implied to "ignore what the manufacturer recommends"

The forums are a place to share experiences and ideas and discuss them. I commented and so did you. Both sides of the argument have been voiced. Thats all I was doing but somehow you have taken my posts as a personal insult to you and feel the need to attack my competency and intelligence.

I'm done with you and this topic.


Click to expand...


You said you were done with me and this topic at 7:39 AM, why the edit at 1:27? And I thought we had finally found common ground (you are done with me and this topic, ditto on my side).

For the record I never intended to insult, or belittle you. If it came off that way, I apologize. I don't know you. For all I know you could be a doctor, a lawyer, a builder, a plumber, or have any number of other vocations. But, I think its clear you are not a mechanical, or marine engineer. I could give you a couple of paragraphs on the science of how a temperature differential of only 15-20 degrees between resting and operating states can create stress, and repeated stress will eventually create cracking between the interface of dissimilar materials, like aluminum and epoxy, but I won't. The point is that even if the decals don't shrivel off, it matters to the longevity of the bond between the epoxy and and the aluminum.

I have never questioned your intelligence. I am guilty of questioning your competency on reaching engineering conclusions. But to be honest that appears to be a skill you are lacking by not having training as an engineer. Likewise, my competency to comment on medical, legal, construction, or plumbing matters is equally lacking.

So at this point I suggest detente; We agree to disagree on this topic and to cease and desist from any additional comment, You accept my apology, or don't (completely your choice), and finally, In future postings we remain civil to each other. Regardless of your decision, this is the practice I intend to follow.

Henry
 
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IMG00251-20110901-1819.jpg
Not trying to get into any arguments, but this is the route I took.
 
Henry,
There may be a liability issue here with this repair? This weekend I had to go to the marina that is repairing my boat from the accident I had 3 weeks ago when I broke the gimbal ring(insurance claim) As I was taking to the service manager I asked if the technician that was working on my boat was a certified Mercrusier mechanic -he responded yes that his insurance required them on any job they work on the mechanic must be certified for that product or they could not work on it....no expectations! I said really? He then told me a story about a large sized Sea Ray that came in for repair that a oil line came lose and sprayed pressurized oil onto the turbo charger. A fire started and the fire suppression system did its job and saved the boat!
The repair was over 200K and the insurance company hired a law firm to investigate the history of the boat -so anyone that worked on that boat was checked out because the insurance company was trying to subrogate this claim. In this case everything checked out and no one else was involved.
Now what liability does a boat owner have doing untested/undocumented repair in a critical area? God forbid some one got hurt if that repair failed and there was an insurance claim (if you have insurance)? How do you think the insurance company would handle that?
Plus if he sold the boat..the way the repair is done all painted pretty with a sticker over the area a good surveyor could easily miss it.
I think you can cross off lawyer as possible vocation...............
 
Henry Boyd said:
You said you were done with me and this topic at 7:39 AM, why the edit at 1:27? And I thought we had finally found common ground (you are done with me and this topic, ditto on my side).

For the record I never intended to insult, or belittle you. If it came off that way, I apologize. I don't know you. For all I know you could be a doctor, a lawyer, a builder, a plumber, or have any number of other vocations. But, I think its clear you are not a mechanical, or marine engineer. I could give you a couple of paragraphs on the science of how a temperature differential of only 15-20 degrees between resting and operating states can create stress, and repeated stress will eventually create cracking between the interface of dissimilar materials, like aluminum and epoxy, but I won't. The point is that even if the decals don't shrivel off, it matters to the longevity of the bond between the epoxy and and the aluminum.

I have never questioned your intelligence. I am guilty of questioning your competency on reaching engineering conclusions. But to be honest that appears to be a skill you are lacking by not having training as an engineer. Likewise, my competency to comment on medical, legal, construction, or plumbing matters is equally lacking.

So at this point I suggest detente; We agree to disagree on this topic and to cease and desist from any additional comment, You accept my apology, or don't (completely your choice), and finally, In future postings we remain civil to each other. Regardless of your decision, this is the practice I intend to follow.

Henry
Click to expand...

Sounds good. I agree. I didn't come on here looking to have a battle. I was just trying to contribute to the discussion. I agree a truce is in order, I apologize for letting my emotions get the best of me and saying things I shouldn't have. I do respect your experience and input. Thanks
 
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