Fuel prices supposed to spike!

[jason78]

I think my "socialism" stems from my belief in a higher authority. In fact I kind of agree with the premise many religious types have that our country is in decline because that higher authority is not pleased with us, but not for the same reasons they espouse. I don't think its because some people love other people of the same sex or because of what a woman decides to do with her own body and life. I think its because we have been blessed beyond measure, but we still have become stingy, selfish and heartless. Many seem to forget the first and most important commandment...... to love one another as we love ourselves.

So if I understand you correctly, you are suggesting God is perfecly fine with us killing human beings for convenience purposes but he is mad because some don't want to give everything they have worked for to those who choose not to support themselves?

 

[Ka1oxd]

Jason78, there has been several articles dealing with the concept of psychopaths being elevated into high positions in very large companies. This is because of their traits characterized primarily by a lack of empathy and remorse, shallow emotions, egocentricity, and deception. Once they have been elevated to that kind of position, the company then looses the moral and ethical compass that a lot of the smaller business have. One of my previous employers really fit that bill. He was brought in front of the house committee based on some actions the company was performing dealing the the general public that bought products. The final report of the committee stated that violations were present, but the CEO said he did not break any rules. Interesting.

 

[jason78]

Jason78, there has been several articles dealing with the concept of psychopaths being elevated into high positions in very large companies. This is because of their traits characterized primarily by a lack of empathy and remorse, shallow emotions, egocentricity, and deception. Once they have been elevated to that kind of position, the company then looses the moral and ethical compass that a lot of the smaller business have. One of my previous employers really fit that bill. He was brought in front of the house committee based on some actions the company was performing dealing the the general public that bought products. The final report of the committee stated that violations were present, but the CEO said he did not break any rules. Interesting.

You won't get any arguments from me about the level of greed and corruption seen in many companies, trust me I know it is there but it is probably even more rampant in the same government the liberals seem to want to have control over everything and everyone. I was just a little confused by the previous post suggesting God has no problem with the elimination of other humans, many times for trivial reasons, yet really is displeased with our lack of willingness to give to others. I guess it is just another liberal paradox. That is one advantage they have I guess, whatever they say does not have to make any logical sense to be accepted among their groups.

 

[Ka1oxd]

Well, war is obsolete. Humanity has not matured enough to understand that yet.

 

[Pack66Dad]

So if I understand you correctly, you are suggesting God is perfecly fine with us killing human beings for convenience purposes but he is mad because some don't want to give everything they have worked for to those who choose not to support themselves?

I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion from what I posted..... but maybe it just reinforces my theory, I don't know. Its just my personal belief, I'm not here to evangelize or criticize others beliefs. Please remember I'm talking beliefs, not political theory. If you want to flame me about my politics, please feel free..... its become the "American way".

 

[MonacoMike]

The point being we have no government control...... so we the people lose in the name of profit. Its pretty damn obvious the government controls very little in this country and what little they do control is being sold to the highest bidder.

...except the economy choking regulation they spit out by the volume.

...and I'm not a Marxist, I'm a democratic socialist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism

Which IS a Marxist with a pretty name and mob rule.

 

[MonacoMike]

Why not just nationalize the oil companies? Could you give up your conservative principals just a little in return for $0.12 a gallon gas? (That's what they pay in Venezuela) :huh:

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/

Hell, for $0.12 a gallon gas I might even vote for a Republican :wow:

Just move to Venezuela, you will like a dictatorship for government that gets changed by violent uprisings.

 

[MonacoMike]

Watch out, the "cool kids club" will give you the scarlet letter (SOCIALIST) if you talk like that.
The rest of us kids think what you said is cool :thumbsup:

(Marxist)

 

[Pack66Dad]

...except the economy choking regulation they spit out by the volume.



Which IS a Marxist with a pretty name and mob rule.

Hi MM :smt001

This just wasn't a party without our resident Neoliberal.

Nice to hear from you.

 

[Pack66Dad]

Jason78, there has been several articles dealing with the concept of psychopaths being elevated into high positions in very large companies. This is because of their traits characterized primarily by a lack of empathy and remorse, shallow emotions, egocentricity, and deception. Once they have been elevated to that kind of position, the company then looses the moral and ethical compass that a lot of the smaller business have. One of my previous employers really fit that bill. He was brought in front of the house committee based on some actions the company was performing dealing the the general public that bought products. The final report of the committee stated that violations were present, but the CEO said he did not break any rules. Interesting.

 

[jason78]

I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion from what I posted.....

I simply read the post.

If you want to flame me about my politics, please feel free..... its become the "American way".

I am not trying to flame you are all, I was just trying to expand on that specific post with the intent of finding out what exactly you meant and how abortion, gay rights and Religion had anything to do with a thread on Gas Prices, that's all. I don't recall ever "flaming" you about anything but know we have had many disagreements (and a couple agreements) the last couple years.

 

[MonacoMike]

I think my "socialism" stems from my belief in a higher authority. In fact I kind of agree with the premise many religious types have that our country is in decline because that higher authority is not pleased with us, but not for the same reasons they espouse. I don't think its because some people love other people of the same sex or because of what a woman decides to do with her own body and life. I think its because we have been blessed beyond measure, but we still have become stingy, selfish and heartless. Many seem to forget the first and most important commandment...... to love one another as we love ourselves.

It is digusting when know nothings spout lies about their countrymen. Our country is THE most generous on the planet and has been for a long time. Just because folks believe in hard work and freedom does not mean they are not compassionate. You make the common assumption that people who do not want government handing out beneifits from monies confiscated from them are selfish.

"After the Britain-based Charities Aid Foundation released a survey that ranked the U.S. first in giving, I contacted Adam Meyerson of the Philanthropy Roundtable for a reaction. Given the economic hardships of so many Americans in recent years, was he surprised by the results?
"Not at all," said Mr. Meyerson. "This study is consistent with many other studies showing that America is by far the most charitable country on Earth. We give about 2% of our national income to charity; most other countries give 1% or much less."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...90931258.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_BelowLEFTSecond

"Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).
-- Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html

 

[Pack66Dad]

I am not trying to flame you are all, I was just trying to expand on that specific post with the intent of finding out what exactly you meant and how abortion, gay rights and Religion had anything to do with a thread on Gas Prices, that's all. I don't recall ever "flaming" you about anything but know we have had many disagreements (and a couple agreements) the last couple years.

Sorry Jason, I guess flame was a bit inappropriate.......... my bad.

 

[Pack66Dad]

It is digusting when know nothings spout lies about their countrymen. Our country is THE most generous on the planet and has been for a long time. Just because folks believe in hard work and freedom does not mean they are not compassionate. You make the common assumption that people who do not want government handing out beneifits from monies confiscated from them are selfish.

"After the Britain-based Charities Aid Foundation released a survey that ranked the U.S. first in giving, I contacted Adam Meyerson of the Philanthropy Roundtable for a reaction. Given the economic hardships of so many Americans in recent years, was he surprised by the results?
"Not at all," said Mr. Meyerson. "This study is consistent with many other studies showing that America is by far the most charitable country on Earth. We give about 2% of our national income to charity; most other countries give 1% or much less."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...90931258.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_BelowLEFTSecond

"Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).
-- Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html

 

[John_Gault]

It is more impacted by the speculators, deregulation ( regulated until 1970 where profits were controlled by the government), and pure greed.

And the wise Nixon price controls on gasoline. Immensely popular, and didn't that work well.




Laurence

 

[Woody]

So Woody. . . are we saying that. . . .

. . .US refined gasoline (using an over-regulated refinery, with Unionized Labor) that has to be shipped . . . .is cheaper than locally refined gasoline (using a refinery that is subject to NO regulation, with workers earning 8 bananas a day)?

. . .Huh. What's wrong with that picture?
What's wrong it the assumption that it would have to be cheaper. If you need it, if you want it but don't have it, then you buy from some one else. There are many variables in making a gal of gas, it might be cheaper or it might not.:huh:


- - - - -

BTW: I reject the premise that the US is short on refining capacity. When was the last time you found you couldn't buy gasoline? Price seems to be more impacted by "crude supply threats" than "local refining issues".

What's short on capacity mean? Is every refinery maxed out, I doubt it. Could the refinerys handle our total useage...NO. 20% of our total petroleum imports are processed/finished products. I would think that number would be smaller if refinerys could be counted on to handle more crude.

 

[Last Dollar]

The US sells leases to the oil companies for drilling and oil production. These leases are far below fair market prices. The parent oil companies then sell the product to subsidiaries of the parent corporation for refining, then transport. Each time the sell it to the different subsidiaries, each subsidiaries make a profit. Then we subsidize the oil companies with tax breaks while they reel in huge profits. What is wrong with this picture?

Here is the exact point I was trying to make when I started this thing at post #1. Leases are sold at below fair market value. Oil companies are subsidized with tax breaks which in the end makes my taxes increase. The oil companies report profane profits and CEO's make profane salaries.............all at the expense of the average American trying to raise a family and survive!!!!!!!!!! The price for gas goes up not because America is an energy hog but because the oil companies take all the perks from the American tax payer and then sell thier product overseas. These new markets are creating huge demand and thus higher prices. Many of these countries have higher demand because manufacturing jobs they have taken from the American worker now enable them to buy automobiles. All of this because of greed and corruption in Washington. Politicans are quick to forget who they represent and very quickly become tainted with corporate money received in shady under the table deals.
Yes free enterprise is a good thing, I'm not against the wealthy making money because their companies provide jobs. However I am against my tax dollar making it easy.

My son did a spread sheet on his home budget. He calculates than an increase in the price of gas from the current 3.49 to $5.00 would cost him and his wife an additional $2400 a year in thier average daily commute for two vehicles. Furthermore by estimating the gallons of fuel he used in his boat last year, the increase in boating for 2012 is an additional $570. They will not stop the daily commute and they certainly will not stop boating. So where is this additional $3000 coming from?? It is coming from restaurants, the mall, home improvement centers and other places they may spend money. Now this is felt by everyone. Politicans talk about growing the number of jobs but increases in gasoline will curtail any economic recovery.

 

[Two Screwed]

IMO. Oil/Gas prices are already more or less completely controlled by government. The competition in the petroleum marketplace has been stifled down to just a few conglomerate mega-corporations primarily due to government involvement via EPA regulation, tax law, gov't leases, and OSHA just to name a few. These corporations do receive lots of profit due to the lack of competitors and they benefit at our cost. My perspective is that these corporations enjoy a certain amount of this difficulty since it makes it impossible for new competition to enter the market. They are the few entities that can afford to hire armies of lobbyists to negotiate operation and leases, hire armies of lawyers to negotiate the regulation and liability, and hire armies of accountants to negotiate around taxes. I would imagine that when Washington squeezes the oil giants a little too hard, they find ways of shifting production and operations to other countries as a logical profit driven decision. If the regulation stranglehold was loosened I'd be happy to build an oil derrick in my back yard if I thought it would yield anything. I'd invest in small businesses that wanted to build a refinery that could refine cheaper and more efficiently. I would imagine that Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and George Soros would be one of the few folks on earth that could start a new oil company these days, but they couldn't achieve any better pricing in the US since they would have to ante up and dive into the same government mafia scheme to operate.


Who is John Galt?

 

[Someday Lady II]

IMO. Oil/Gas prices are already more or less completely controlled by government. The competition in the petroleum marketplace has been stifled down to just a few conglomerate mega-corporations primarily due to government involvement via EPA regulation, tax law, gov't leases, and OSHA just to name a few. These corporations do receive lots of profit due to the lack of competitors and they benefit at our cost. My perspective is that these corporations enjoy a certain amount of this difficulty since it makes it impossible for new competition to enter the market. They are the few entities that can afford to hire armies of lobbyists to negotiate operation and leases, hire armies of lawyers to negotiate the regulation and liability, and hire armies of accountants to negotiate around taxes. I would imagine that when Washington squeezes the oil giants a little too hard, they find ways of shifting production and operations to other countries as a logical profit driven decision. If the regulation stranglehold was loosened I'd be happy to build an oil derrick in my back yard if I thought it would yield anything. I'd invest in small businesses that wanted to build a refinery that could refine cheaper and more efficiently. I would imagine that Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and George Soros would be one of the few folks on earth that could start a new oil company these days, but they couldn't achieve any better pricing in the US since they would have to ante up and dive into the same government mafia scheme to operate.


Who is John Galt?

[h=1]Who is John Galt?[/h][h=2]"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." -- John Galt[/h]See Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged", 1957

 

[islandhopper00]

I think my "socialism" stems from my belief in a higher authority. In fact I kind of agree with the premise many religious types have that our country is in decline because that higher authority is not pleased with us, but not for the same reasons they espouse. I don't think its because some people love other people of the same sex or because of what a woman decides to do with her own body and life. I think its because we have been blessed beyond measure, but we still have become stingy, selfish and heartless. Many seem to forget the first and most important commandment...... to love one another as we love ourselves.

Pack the only problem I have with this kind of thinking is, for example..."because of what a woman DECIDES to do with her own body"....
She can do what ever she wants in my opinion, I have a problem with her when she wants "ME" to pay for her bad decisions. The commandmants don't tells us to love others that don't love themselves. I love myself, and would NEVER put myself in the situations that many do. I cannot love someone that doesn't love themself is my point.