Frozen/stuck sea cocks, in water, need maitenance.... Help

Wistlindixie

Wistlindixie

New Member
Jun 18, 2018
27
Michigan
Boat Info
450 DA
Engines
CAT 3126
I have a 1996 sea ray 450 da and the CAT mechanic that serviced the boat last indicated they were frozen and did not want to break them. I need to remove hoses and the cooling system in slip and unsure if there is a safe way to do without closing the sea cocks. I have no experience with the correct amount of force and what "binds" or fixing? Is their a solution or spray that will loosen them? What advice do you have for these?
 
Please take a picture of what kind of valve it is and post up.

From earlier posts on CSR some have a set screw or packing bolt that might need to be loosened before the valve will operate.

If needed spray copious amount of PB Blaster or Kroil oil and allow time to soak in.

Time is your friend in this case.
 
They are yellow handle ball valves.

No, you cannot remove the hoses with the sea cocks ope. The generator, the air conditioning and one of the mains will flood the boat.

If you will take your time and not get in a a hurry, you can usually free a stuck sea cock by spraying both sides of the shaft where it goes into the valve body liberally with silicone (not WD-40, Boeshield or any other petroleum based product). Spray the sea cock several times then slip a short piece of PVC pipe over the handle and gently try to get it to move some. If it will move any, spray it again and keep exercising the valve and spraying silicone bit by bit until it will open and close.

If you cannot free them this way, you will need to plan a haul out to replace the seacocks.
 
That's fine to use once you get them freed up. What you need now is penetrating fluid such as PB Blaster available at most auto parts stores.

I tend to agree with Frank on this. I have seen mechanics replace hoses and transducers while the boat is in the water but it is a heart attack waiting to happen. Experienced mechanics use their hands, plugs and caps to stop the water flow. It's not the pressure ...it is the volume of water that is the issue.

On a related subject, do you know how they were able to winterize your boat without control over the sea cocks?
 
Both of my engine seacocks were frozen open and yard wanted to pull the boat and change them out. I used the exact silicone product you link above and followed Frank's advice. I sprayed them everyday for a week, put the PVC pipe over the yellow handles, and both worked to perfection the first time I tried them! Now I exercise them monthly and no more issues!

Bennett
 
I carry a cheater pipe for extra leverage, but be careful you do not want to break them in the water...
 
Playdate: It was stored indoors, not sure if it was heated or not. PB blaster is petroleum based, frank said non-PB. That is what i had been using (PB). I am new owner for 2018. Survey and CAT mechanic could not move them, suggested I replace. They feared breaking them. Of course it was put in water by that time.

I wonder if I need to remove all of the Fluid Film first BEFORE using Silicone? Dawn dish soap or simple green to clean off first?
 
Congrats on buying the boat and joining Club Sea Ray.

Simple Green should work okay to clean up any residue. Not sure why Frank is against petroleum based Solvents since they are designed to work their way into the seized area and dissolve corrosion. Lubricants are designed to provide long term protection.

That said....Frank usually has a good reason for his recommendations....(unless he cranky about something like portable generators and gas versus diesel fuel burn).

Are all the sea cocks frozen?
 
Thanks! Only the two large ones going to the engines are frozen. The recommendation to use help (PVC tube) i fear adding any force - HOWEVER - I have no experience with the correct amount of force to expect for moving these. Are these big ones generally very stiff or free moving like a ball valve off the shelf at Lowes? I need something for reference. I did not try adding any force. The small ball valve for the AC turned freely, however it is very small and a different type.
 
I might have missed this, are they stuck open or closed? Once a year I remove the drain plug and grease the ball joint.

Mine have a "T" handle on the back of each seacock. Be very sure it is loose before trying to move the seacock handle.
 
These are not free moving ball valves. The best way to understand it is to stop by West Marine and look at a valve that is similar to yours. Normally pressure to rotate is probably 5 lbs on the handle. One that is "frozen" may require 10x that. Much more than that and the handle generally gives way where it attaches to the valve.

I have only had one that did that (out of 20+ ones that I have fixed). The rest broke free with a an 18" piece of PVC pipe slid over the handle and a few days of PB Blaster.

One thing I have been meaning to try is getting the valve cold. Just an observation but valves in cold weather move easier than they do when they are hot.
 
This is one. Picture
 

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So the “T” on the right in my picture needs loosened then then then handle on the left? Are they both right tight left loose?
 
The picture was really helpful. I believe I know what the problem is. The Groco SV valves have a rubber seal in side. No amount of lubrication is going to solve this. The valve needs to be rebuilt or replaced. Please read the attached Groco bulletin.
 

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Well, this is a new one on me……..I never saw a Groco tapered valve on a 450DA.

On this one, you can saturate it with PB Blaster for several days, then loosen the "T" handle on the right side in the photo then use a cheater and you should get the valve to free up, as PlayDate recommends.


My previous comments about silicone vs. petroleum based lubricants only pertains to Conbraco Apollo sea cocks (yellow handle ball valves). Like this:



This is per Conbraco's technical service folks who say the seals and seats in this valve are made of Teflon and WD-40, etc. will degrade the teflon parts.

John, I appreciate your noticing that I usually have a decent reason for my recommendations. I have nothing against petroleum based lubricants……heck I buy PB Blaster by the case and wouldn't be without it. I just don't use it in the Teflon seals in my seacocks. I also note that the Groco SV series lubrication instructions in your last post says the same thing…"use 'silicon' (I think they mean 'silicone') lubricants; Do not use petroleum lubricants.
 
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What is weird is that they stopped making them in 1993 which is why I thought they were the Yellow handle ball cock design as well. Your boat is a 1996. Frank of course is right about solvents and teflon.

BTW is that a crack in the shaft where the makeshift bolt handle is? Looks like this has been a problem for a long time.
 
Playdate, I didn’t even realize it looks cracked until I read your post. I had to reopen and zoom too see it. Darn. I have a mix of valves.

The engines are both those, but the air and generator are the ball valve type. I had never seen these.
 
Almost looks as if they have been apart before but it may just be the pic.

Yes the T must be loose before the valve may turn. Follow Frank's advice.
 
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