Fried 110v outlet in bilge

[sbw1]

I don't believe there is any receptacle approved for use below deck in a gas boat. Just the act of putting a plug into a receptacle often generates a spark.

If you are in the engine room the boat is wide open which allows lots of air ventilation into the bilge. Plus you are in the bilge and will smell fumes. My boat has the outlet and the certification. It is fully enclosed and not open to the ER until you use it.

 

[Four Suns]

My boat has the outlet and the certification. .

Tiara puts a 110v outlet in a gas engine room? Can you post a picture of this? I would love to see it.... and what "certification" are you referring to? I didn't know that the "ignition protected" thingy only applied to the engine room when the hatch was closed. I've never seen a plug rated to be "ignition protected".

 

[Two Peas]

 

[osd9]

Wow....that's Strange....I hope you were wearing Gloves and didn't cut yourself..

 

[electricaldoctor]

If you are in the engine room the boat is wide open which allows lots of air ventilation into the bilge. Plus you are in the bilge and will smell fumes. My boat has the outlet and the certification. It is fully enclosed and not open to the ER until you use it.

so, lets say we buy into your rationale for a moment or two about the receptacle being OK when the hatch being open ... then what about when it is closed????? :huh: :huh:

 

[fwebster]

The clamp type receptical connection is cost effective from an assembly standpoint but they tend to loosen up over time with stranded wire. I suspect your problem occurred because you were using both a light and a drill motor which caused a loose connection to overheat.

I like the proposed fix.........ring terminals w/shrink tubing.

 

[Four Suns]

The clamp type receptical connection is cost effective from an assembly standpoint but they tend to loosen up over time with stranded wire. I suspect your problem occurred because you were using both a light and a drill motor which caused a loose connection to overheat.

I like the proposed fix.........ring terminals w/shrink tubing.

So... it always comes down to my Cummins engines vibrating...

 

[Nehalennia]

Tiara puts a 110v outlet in a gas engine room? Can you post a picture of this? I would love to see it.... and what "certification" are you referring to? I didn't know that the "ignition protected" thingy only applied to the engine room when the hatch was closed. I've never seen a plug rated to be "ignition protected".

Well cross talking forums here but the "Super Genius" is hunting for justificatoin for installin his outlet in the engine bay over on BOC

ABYC SAYS:
11.15.3.5 If installed in a head, galley, machinery space, or on a weather deck, the recepticle shall be ignition protected by a Type A (nominal 5 milliamperes) Ground fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI). See E-11,13.
Note: GFCI recepticle devices are not necessarily ignition protected per E-11.5.1.3.1 CFR 183:410 IGNITION PROTECTION
Boats that use diesel fuel as the only fuel source is the exception.

Terminals: 11.16.3.4 Terminal connectors shall be of the ring or captive spade types. There are exceptions for certain uick disconnect connectors under 20 ampes.
My book is a few years old, so the numbers may be out of date, but go online and look up ABYC E-11 electrical.

Now you have it. I have done a lot of marine electrical work, and untill recently my ABYC test was good, retired now.

Thank you.

My searches have not revealed any links that contain these standards on-line for viewing or download.

If you want to send me a link in a PM that would be terrific!

Thank you again.

 

[sbw1]

Tiara puts a 110v outlet in a gas engine room? Can you post a picture of this? I would love to see it.... and what "certification" are you referring to? I didn't know that the "ignition protected" thingy only applied to the engine room when the hatch was closed. I've never seen a plug rated to be "ignition protected".

I'll work on it when I have the time. Be patient. Are you going to buy the bigger boat?

 

[Four Suns]

I assume that even people on the Bayliner group know the saying "Stupid is as stupid does"

 

[HUMPH]

I would brush some kind of protectant on the connections when replaced. 3M Scotchkote is fantastic but messy if you're not careful.

Gary, you state that there was 2" of stipped insulation but I doubt it. The problem starts with a connection that becomes loose and begins to arc under load causing lots of heat which melts the insulation. This is not heat due to overload so breaker tripping occurs. The breaker will trip with an overload condition or a short or a sudden overload, this looks like arcing and overheating until failure occurred.

 

[HUMPH]

If you are in the engine room the boat is wide open which allows lots of air ventilation into the bilge. Plus you are in the bilge and will smell fumes. My boat has the outlet and the certification. It is fully enclosed and not open to the ER until you use it.

Fully enclosed? Is this a class 1 division 2 explosionproof installation? If so it would be about a $3,000 outlet. :huh:

 

[Four Suns]

I would brush some kind of protectant on the connections when replaced. 3M Scotchkote is fantastic but messy if you're not careful.

Gary, you state that there was 2" of stipped insulation but I doubt it. The problem starts with a connection that becomes loose and begins to arc under load causing lots of heat which melts the insulation. This is not heat due to overload so breaker tripping occurs. The breaker will trip with an overload condition or a short or a sudden overload, this looks like arcing and overheating until failure occurred.

You may be right... hell.. the facts are just that it failed and the insulation is gone... but the insulation may be in ashes at the base of the receptacle. Either way I think running new 12g wire with ring terminals in shrink wrap will be a tad better than a compression fit on these things.

I think for those diesel guys out there it might be wise to check these plugs and GFCI circuits in the engine room/outside and upgrade them to ring terminals...

 

[mwph]

Time for another rookie question.........

Did you determine that the GFCI (further upstream) was bad or just that it wouldn't reset while the fried outlet was still, well, fried?

 

[Four Suns]

The GFCI would not reset (with the fried plug) so I assumed it was bad and replaced it. I did not expect to find a burned out wire in that receptacle box... I did not go and test the GFCI I removed after the fact to find out what the deal was with it. I've had those things go bad before (not just on the boat) so I always suspect them if they don't reset.

 

[Alex F]

Moisture could get in there several ways. The box isn't sealed at the wire input....

Gary,
have you considered replasing regular romex connector to something waterproof like these (this looks like plastic, but I know there's aluminum or zink version)?

P.S.
In case if you need the exact description, it's ROMEX® - Liquid Tight Straight Strain Relief Fittings they can be found in home depot or lowes but the ones in the picture I found here http://www.sealconusa.com/romex.htm

 

[sbw1]

Tiara puts a 110v outlet in a gas engine room? Can you post a picture of this? I would love to see it.... and what "certification" are you referring to? I didn't know that the "ignition protected" thingy only applied to the engine room when the hatch was closed. I've never seen a plug rated to be "ignition protected".

There is a pic of the 110 outlet on the Tiara web site. It is a white duplex with a pull down door that has a gasket around it to keep out moisture. It is located on the forward bulkhead fairly high up the wall and is is in the middle between those big blue Crusaders. Go to the Tiara home page. Click on Products. Click on 32 Open. Click on Image Gallery. Click on Exterrior Image. Open the Engine Access file and right click the image and set it as your back ground pic on your desk top for a better view of it. The certification is posted by the helm and probably says the same thing as yours.....ie., the boat was built to federal standards, blah, blah, blah, etc.

As a practical matter, it makes little difference where you are plugged in when running a power drill in the ER. The drill produces sparks when running. Pumps used to evacuate oil and transmission fluids same thing. The duplex produces maybe a small spark when you plug the drill in. The pumps when connected to a battery spark a bit. In a well ventilated ER this is not an issue. If fumes are noticable, most people will not start running electrical equipment. Just think of all the electrical devices you use when servicing inboards and how seldom accidents occur.

 

[sbw1]

so, lets say we buy into your rationale for a moment or two about the receptacle being OK when the hatch being open ... then what about when it is closed????? :huh: :huh:

Not sure I get your point. When the engine room is closed and the duplex is closed, it should be fine.

 

[osd9]

At the very least, I would think that there would be some type of printed information in the owners manual saying that this recptacle is only to be used for specific uses....i.e. as a convenience outlet to be used ONLY when a human is in the ER with the ER well ventillated and not to be used as a receptacle for any permanent installation?

 

[electricaldoctor]

Not sure I get your point. When the engine room is closed and the duplex is closed, it should be fine.

I was trying to point out for the few gas boys that still have outlets in their ER that have something plugged into them. You may feel safe with the hatch open & getting adequate ventilation, but what about when it is closed and they have something plugged in such as a non-approved heater for example.

I was on a boat last year where the owner was changing out his defective battery charger. I happened to notice a standard automotive battery charger nearby in the ER that he was using for the previous 2 months until he could afford a proper marine replacement unit.

Then there is another boater about 4 slips away from me who proudly showed me his Home Depot shop vac that he permanently installed in his ER 6 years earlier which was plugged into a standard residential 120 volt receptacle down there. He took great care to seal around the vacuum pipe that leads up to the salon area in his 10 m. Carver, but gave no thought to the situation that he had set up down below. His wife overheard the conversation that I was having with him about this and made him correct this immediately.

~Ken